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Project Habakkuk 1/700 scale ship.

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  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Wisconsin
Project Habakkuk 1/700 scale ship.
Posted by CBHusky on Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:56 PM

I'm not getting the help I need from the FSM forums when discussing this subject, so I've decided to remove all my content from this thread.

 

 

Battleship modelers build with BIGGER guns!
  • Member since
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  • From: Wisconsin
Posted by CBHusky on Sunday, June 21, 2009 8:51 AM

Removed content.

Battleship modelers build with BIGGER guns!
  • Member since
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  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Sunday, June 21, 2009 10:24 AM

One was done and shown at the 2000 IPMS Nationals in Dallas.  IIRC, it was a muddy gray/brown color with gray details.  Also, IIRC it was a block of styrofoam with  a slurry of fine sawdust & glue troweled on.  

Most any two-part epoxy will suit your needs of attaching plastic to wood.   CA can be used but it tends to soak into the wood & harden before instead of adhering parts.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, June 21, 2009 12:05 PM

Quite a while ago I built a model with a carved basswood hull covered with styrene strips:   http://www.hmsvictoryscalemodels.be/JohnTilleyHancock/index.html .

I used old-fashioned Revell "Type S" styrene cement, in a tube.  Applied to the back of each strip, it softened up the plastic and soaked into the wood, thereby creating a good, strong bond.  Those "planks" have now been in place for more than thirty years, and show no sign whatever of coming loose.

Revell tube-type cement is, alas, no longer available.  But I think Testor's (preferably the stuff in the orange tube; not the "non-toxic" blue tube product) would work almost as well. I've used it to fasten some small styrene parts to the wood hull of the model I'm working on at the moment, and the results seem to be fine. 

I guess I'm in the minority, but I think the current tendency of modelers to turn up their noses at tube-type cements is a mistake.  Thin solvent-types are great for lots of purposes (maybe most purposes), but there are times when the ability to put a drop of relatively thick adhesive on a small spot, and to adjust the alignment of the parts for some time afteward, does come in handy.  Unfortunately the Testor's stuff, which I've always found rather stringy and difficult to work with, seems to be the only brand that's conveniently available nowadays.  Oh, for the return of Ambroid, Revell, or Ross tube-type plastic cement.

Oh - and cyano-acrylite adhesives (aka superglues) will hold styrene to wood.  Just avoid the thinnest, fastest-drying types.  (For example, choose Super Zap or Slo-Zap instead of Zap.)  And a bottle of accelerator will come in handy.) 

One other thought:  if you're concerned about the weight of the finished model, the biggest improvement you can make is to hollow out the hull.  (That will also make it more stable dimensionally.)  If I were doing a project like this I'd probably make the hull out of several thin layers, or "lifts," each of them hollow.  Spruce isn't a bad idea, though I'd have no idea where to find it in thin sheets.  Our local Lowe's store carries poplar in a wide variety of sizes (and if it can be found in Greenville, NC it can be found just about anywhere).  Poplar is a nice wood for such purposes; it's a little harder to carve than basswood (or spruce), but it holds edges nicely and, with help from a primer, can produce a very nice finished surface.  The on big golden rule about poplar is:  always paint it.  As it ages it darkens unpredictably, sometimes turning a rather nice medium brown and sometimes a nauseous green.  But it's great for items that are going to be painted.  It's heavier than spruce, but if you hollow out the lifts the difference in weight will be negligible.

Hope that helps a little.  Good luck. 

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
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Posted by ddp59 on Sunday, June 21, 2009 12:59 PM
if want lightweight the go for balsawood. can use testors tube glue as i use it to glue sheet styrene plates to skin my 1/144 ships using balsawood frame with no problems.
  • Member since
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  • From: Wisconsin
Posted by CBHusky on Sunday, June 21, 2009 6:56 PM

Removed content.

Battleship modelers build with BIGGER guns!
  • Member since
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  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Monday, June 22, 2009 7:26 PM

Extending the concept a little, and with a bit from Wiki, it sounds as though the final result would have to be insulated with cork sheets so as not to melt. Cork is paintable and at that scale, smooth so I'd suggest a camo measure.

I'd make it out of styrene as the shape in a big box. The prow and stern would be painted too. Sounds like fun. Now where are you going to get a hundred 1/700 Lancasters?

  • Member since
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  • From: Wisconsin
Posted by CBHusky on Saturday, July 4, 2009 1:38 PM

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Battleship modelers build with BIGGER guns!
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Posted by EdGrune on Saturday, July 4, 2009 2:41 PM
 CBHusky wrote:

Although some reference sources list the Habbakuk as having British 4.5" (Which I suspect might have been these if the ship had been built http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_45-45_mk1.htm ) guns, I have opted to use American 5"/38 cal. since it appears there are no aftermarket guns available.

No aftermarket except by the pre-eminent supplier of 1:700 Royal Navy models and aftermarket products White Ensign Models  http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/

Is your selection of a US camouflage measure appropriate for a Royal Navy subject? 

An Admiralty Disruptive pattern or perhaps Western Approaches may be more appropriate and more interesting

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  • From: Wisconsin
Posted by CBHusky on Saturday, July 4, 2009 4:10 PM

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Battleship modelers build with BIGGER guns!
  • Member since
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  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Sunday, July 5, 2009 8:28 AM

John,

I most emphatically agree with your comments about tube cement! But, I have been using the Testor's non-toxic cement for decades without problems. It bonds, it does not become stringy, and it smells nice, a plus for the family. It has all the advantages that you mention. May I ask about your objections?

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
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  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, July 5, 2009 9:10 AM

Well, maybe I haven't given the stuff a fair trial.  Or maybe it boils down to a matter of what one's used to using. 

Testor's "Non-Toxic," if I remember correctly (always a questionable proposition these days) was introduced in the late seventies or thereabouts, in response to complaints that kids were buying the "normal" Testor's Plastic Cement (in the orange tube) for sniffing purposes rather than for building models (which was undoubtedly true). 

Prior to that time there had only been one form of Testor's Plastic Cement in a tube.    I remember it as being packaged in a yellowish cream-colored tube, for the traditional price of a dime.  (There was also the bottled stuff - with the little brush in the cap - but that was more expensive and, in the eyes of an eight-year-old, messier.  One had to instruct one's mother quite carefully to be sure to get the tube that said "plastic cement," rather than "model cement."  The latter was the faster-drying of Testor's two forms of adhesive for balsa wood - the slower kind being in a white tube.)  I was working in a hobby shop when the glue-sniffing craze hit (or, I guess I should say, when it started attracting major public attention).  As I remember it, Testor's came up with two responses.  It announced, with great fanfare, that it was adding something called oil of mustard to its standard (orange tube) plastic cement; the promotional literature claimed that sniffing it would make a kid throw up before it made him high.  (The company sent boxes of glossy pamphlets to hobby shop operators, for distribution to concerned citizens and government officials.  My boss mailed a stack to a local city councilwoman, who'd been making noises about regulating the sale of glue to kids.)  Apparetly the concerned public didn't buy Testor's claim that orange tube was unsniffable.  (I can honestly say that I have no idea whether the claim was accurate or not.  I do know that several of our younger patrons bought large quantities of it, obviously for sniffing purposes, until I threatened to sick my faithful dog, Harvey Wallbanger, on them.)  Shortly thereafter came the appearance of Testor's "non-toxic" plastic cement, in the blue tube with the lemon smell.

The patrons of the store where I worked (many of whom, of course, were committed "liquid cement" users anyway) were thoroughly disgusted with both products.  The addition of the oil of mustard made the old reliable orange tube thicker and stringier.  Blue tube seemed to be less stringy, all right, but it didn't seem to stick as well as its competitors.  It also seemed to dry faster.  That, of course, can be an advantage or a disadvantage, depending on the circumstances.

At any rate, the shop where I worked continued to stock three other brands of tube-type plastic cement:  Revell, Ambroid, and Ross.  Those were the ones most serious adult modelers bought.  I always found their consistency and performance superior. (I especially liked the Ross brand - which I haven't seen for many years.)

A few months ago I happened to have reason to stick some pieces of styrene strip to some basswood - clearly a job for tube-type plastic cement.  Knowing there was no hope of finding any of my old favorites, I went on a search for Testor's orange tube, figuring anyplace that sold plastic kits would carry it.  I got a shock:  in the thriving metropolis of Greenville, North Carolina precisely two stores, Wal-Mart and Michael's Arts and Crafts, were selling plastic kits, and neither of them had Testor's tube glue.  The next weekend my wife and I took a trip to Raleigh, and I went to a Hungate's store.  (Hungate's, for the benefit of the uninitiated, is a rather large chain that sells toys, crafts, and hobbies.  It used to be a pretty good source for plastic kits, though it's slipped lately.)  The clerk knew what Testor's plastic cement was, but the store was out of it.  So I went to a genuine hobby shop - the only one in Raleigh that, so far as I know, is still in business.  The guy in this one knew the difference between blue tube and orange tube, but only had blue tube in stock.  (At this point I started to suspect that Civilization As We Know It was coming to an end.)  So I bought a blue tube.

It didn't work.  Admittedly this particular application was an unusual one - and hardly what Testor's had in mind:  sticking a series of short styrene strips to a piece of basswood.  But my usual, primitive technique - smearing a little glue on the plastic and scrunching it up against the wood - just didn't work.  The glue justdidn't dissolve the styrene enough to make the bond.

At that point I made a pilgrimage to Wilson, a medium-sized town about 35 miles from home that is blessed with a first-rate hobby shop catering primarily to model railroaders.  (It practically got wiped out by Hurricane Floyd in 1999, but has just about recovered now.)  I was hoping against hope that it might have one of the old brands from the Goode Olde Dayes.  No luck - but it did sell me a Testor's orange tube.  Just as I remembered, it was stringy and smelly; just not as nice to work with as the old Revell, Ambroid, or Ross products.  But it did stick.  At least the joints in question have lasted a couple of months now.  The blue tube went in the trash.

As I said, I probably didn't give the blue tube a fair chance; it may work fine for styrene-to-styrene joints.  On the strength of Bill's recommendation, next time I'm actually working on a plastic kit I'll give it a shot.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
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  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Sunday, July 5, 2009 7:04 PM

John,

I guess that I have never used the blue tube to try to adhere plastic strips to wood.  I have only used it to adhere plastic to plastic, with satisfactory success (at least to me.) Anyway, I sincerely hope that it works as well for you! Good luck, and please, let me know how you fare!

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Wisconsin
Posted by CBHusky on Friday, July 17, 2009 10:43 PM

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Battleship modelers build with BIGGER guns!
  • Member since
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  • From: Wisconsin
Posted by CBHusky on Sunday, September 12, 2010 10:35 PM

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Battleship modelers build with BIGGER guns!
  • Member since
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  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Monday, September 13, 2010 12:40 AM

You'd better test it before you commit. Clay is a general term, what you used looks like plasticene, which is full of petroleum jelly and can't be painted.

I would suggest making them from Plaster of Paris (hydrocal). Resin would be the best, but it looks to be a LOT of resin.

Plaster of Paris is an underused modeling material-, but it's great stuff and of course paintable in any way you choose. it also sands well and is super easy to patch- with more P o P.

  • Member since
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  • From: Wisconsin
Posted by CBHusky on Monday, September 13, 2010 10:22 AM

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Battleship modelers build with BIGGER guns!
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Posted by eatthis on Monday, September 13, 2010 10:43 AM

it wouldve been nigh on unsinkable!

 

snow + 4wd + escessive hp = :)  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7egUIS70YM

  • Member since
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  • From: Wisconsin
Posted by CBHusky on Tuesday, February 1, 2011 11:31 AM

Normal 0

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Battleship modelers build with BIGGER guns!
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