1/200 scale warships

keilau

 

Are you saying the Trumpeter Courageous kit and Anshan kit are the same?

Do you have both kits from Trumpeter? Some comparison shots of the sprues would be very appreciated here.

I discovered, in a roundabout way, that they are indeed the same kit. Most of the large parts of the "Former Soviet Courageous Destroyer" are stamped "1/200 ANSHAN 03609/99036029 MADE IN CHINA 1999 TRUMPETER." I think it is safe to conclude they are the same; I've also seen both in built form. Maybe the Anshan is a 2-in-1 kit since Jeffry's Anshan lacks the missile launchers. That's the real question here.

I  might eventually acquire both kits but I'm not really interested in a non-Russian version of this kit but I like PLA Navy vessels so I could go either way.

I think Edward Pinniger does a site showcasing unbuilt and obscure kits with nice photos of the sprues; wonder if he takes outside contributions?

Judging by the shape of the kit's main gun turrets (rounded profile/rounded corners), it is best to model the "Courageous" as one of the class that was assigned to the Pacific Fleet or as one of the "R" ships; Razumniy, Razyarenniy, Redkiy, Rekordniy (later became Anshan), etc.. Most of these appear to have the later production turrets with a cursory scan of the photos available on this site:

http://www.warshipsww2.eu/lode.php?language=E&period=&idtrida=320

As others have noted, the kit does indeed possess a high level of quality in the molding. The hull is one-piece, devoid of any warpage and the rest of the parts are very crisp; no flash whatsoever. A high degree of precision is seen in the thin and delicate parts of the radio aerials and even tiny loops on the end of the anchors so small that I doubt anything other than a hair could be threaded through them. A former motorized model now emblazoned "STATIC", it has the remnants of the housing for the gearbox molded into the hull, a rudimentary battery box and has a slide switch already installed but that's about it. It has what appears to be chromed steel propeller shafts (2mm diameter), brass stuffing boxes and both the kit props(2) and a set of four slightly larger running props made of a black, slightly flexible plastic. All props are properly counter rotating. The props and shafts look scale enough for static.

Apparently this kit has received some prior consideration, and on this very site:

/forums/p/85143/830286.aspx

I was looking all over for the pictures from this particular build and I come to find they were from this very forum. Anyway, I really like the camouflage scheme that katera has used. He has provided an illustration that seems to corroborate the authenticity of the camo pattern. Intriguing.

The saga continues...

Yes. Well, more precisely I am asking if the Trumpeter Anshan and Courageous are the same kit. I've seen both or at least what I think are both in built form and they had either missile launchers or torpedo tubes amidships. Judging by the box art on both kits, they are both Project 7 (or Gremyashchiy class) type destroyers and nothing else. I am 99% certain the Trumpeter Courageous does not model the real Soviet ship (of the same name). I think it was a marketing decision or PR to name the kit "Courageous" otherwise it could be just ignorance of the subject matter or a mistake in translation. What I do find puzzling is the decision to add the word "Former" to the description. Why not just leave it "Soviet" and have this kit as a much needed period piece WWII destroyer? The Anshan can fill the role as the modernized, newly commissioned in the PLA Navy destroyer which it apparently does anyway. The Anshan should be named "Anshan (Former Soviet destroyer Courageous)", but I digress.

I finally got a Trumpeter Courageous by the way. It wasn't a $5 bargain nor was it unjustifiably expensive either. It was something I had to purchase because my particular source said they were completely out of production, both in domestic and foreign availability. Funny you should ask about photos of the sprues because it is sorely needed and I am seriously considering it. Photos need to be available online especially since people are raving over the quality of the kit's molding so perhaps I can make a submission to Modelwarships dot com et al, in the near future. Obtaining the Anshan and adding a comparison of the two is definitely something to consider. I'll see about that.

Appears I was wrong on the spelling all along. The box says it's a "destoryer" (with fish torpedo), heh heh.

Also, the great thing about the actual destroyers that China received is that they have been decommissioned but they still exist as museum or training ships. I think only one was scrapped or was damaged too much to retain. Cheers.

Harquebus

Great info added here. Maybe "Courageous" is just a moniker added to give the model kit in question a more heroic and interesting name? It appears to be a better name than "Rekordny" Рекордный (Record Breaking) the Anshan's former name.

Are you saying the Trumpeter Courageous kit and Anshan kit are the same? The Soviet destroyer Courageous (Отважный) really existed. It was an Ognevoy class ship and was scrapped in the 1960's. Are you saying the Trumpeter Courageous kit does not model the real Soviet ship?

But I agree with you that it is possible. The Soviet Courageous destroyer was 117 m long that makes a 1:200 scale model 23". The Chinese Anshan destroyer is 112.8 m that makes a 22" model. Jeffry who built the Trumpeter "Courageous" kit reported that it was 22". Besides, the model note that comes with the Trumpeter Courageous kit does not apply to the Ognevoy class destroyer. It may be the work of PLAN PR machine calling the Anshan as "Courageous" or the Trumpeter PR machine who did that. Unfortunately, the Anshan had been de-commisioned and information was hard to find at Chinese sites.

Do you have both kits from Trumpeter? Some comparison shots of the sprues would be very appreciated here.

Those are great kits Maniac, and I've actually seen your Chinese Destroyer before; that's a Luda Class guided missile destroyer by the way, but I wonder if indeed these "C.C. Lee" molds were shared or purchased by Trumpeter as they have more than one Luda class kit in the lineup.

I think Trumpeter also has a Type 053H2G (Jiangwei I) frigate that is too similar to Lee's Chinese 'Jiang Hu' Class Frigate to be coincidental in my opinion.

Great info added here. Maybe "Courageous" is just a moniker added to give the model kit in question a more heroic and interesting name? It appears to be a better name than "Rekordny" Рекордный (Record Breaking) the Anshan's former name.

Model Maniac

Well, good old days are long gone, I don't think they are available anymore. But there are new comers like "Bronco" with their two Chinese Sovremenny Class Destroyer 1:200 costing about twice the price of Trumpeter's old Russian Sovremenny 1:200, and "Riich" with their Gato Class Submarine 1:200

The Bronco Sovremenny kit prices are 4 times what I paid for my Trumpeter Sovremenny. I also got the 1:200 PLAN Shenzhen which is a Luhai class modern destroyer for $23. Wonderful kit values, but not the most interesting modeling topic. I don't understand how Bronco prices their kits and wonder if they ever sell any.

I will be very interested in 1:200 scale WW2 destroyers in plastic. There are a few of them in paper card models. Well, it is a less than perfect world.

Well, good old days are long gone, I don't think they are available anymore. But there are new comers like "Bronco" with their two Chinese Sovremenny Class Destroyer 1:200 costing about twice the price of Trumpeter's old Russian Sovremenny 1:200, and "Riich" with their Gato Class Submarine 1:200

 

Model Maniac

Harquebus, Nichimo and Trumpeter are not the only two producers of this ship scale. Here are two 1:200 ships from "Lee": 

I remember the good old days when 1:200 scale destroyer kits were cheap and plentiful. I do not see any c.c. Lee kit anymore. Are they still available anywhere, China, Hong Kong?

Harquebus, Nichimo and Trumpeter are not the only two producers of this ship scale. Here are two 1:200 ships from "Lee":

 

1. Lee's Chinese 'Jiang Hu' Class Frigate 1:200 w/ local made PE rails - by "Tuk":

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2. Lee's Chinese Destroyer 1:200 - by "Tuk":

 

Harquebus

I have not forgotten this particular model and have been trying to source one. I think 1/200 scale is becoming a favorite with Nichimo and Trumpeter being about the only producers of this ship scale.

I've seen the Trumpeter "Anshan" available and was wondering if it was a "2 in 1" kit. Does it contain parts to represent the earlier fit of torpedo tubes (in place of the later missile launchers) when it was accepted by China from the USSR or does it only contain the parts for the modernization refit? The reason I ask is because Jeffry has posted pics of an "Anshan" but it has torpedo tubes amidships and aft like the "Courageous". Somewhere along the line, after acceptance into the PLA Navy, missile launchers were added, hence the presumed difference in the two kits.

You fellows are the only ones I know of who have seen the in-the-box contents of this type of destroyer. Thanks.

Information on Soviet WW II destroyers and early PLAN ships are difficult to find and often conflicting. The best organized information on these ships are on Wiki and we all know how reliable Wiki info are. According to Wiki, the Courageous (Отважный) WW2 destroyer is an Ognevoy class ship and scrapped in the 1960's. The PLAN Anshan class have 4 ships that were the older design ex-Soviet Gnevny-class destroyers purchased in the 1950s. The Chinese later added HY-2 anti-ship missiles and removed some of the torpedo tubes. The Ognevoy class was a later design and a bigger ship, 2950 tons vs. 2009 tons full load, and 4 meters longer. Apparently, no Ognevoy class were completed before WW2 ended. I wonder how are the two Trumpeter kit different.

Jeffry seemed to have built the PLAN Anshan in the as purchased configuration with torpedo tubes. The Anshan kit was re-released in 2010. I also wonder if the later release still a "2-in-1" kit?

i have a 1/200 chinese modified LUDA with hanger and helo deck. looks like a fun build. railings are molded and a tad thick but not bad.

I have not forgotten this particular model and have been trying to source one. I think 1/200 scale is becoming a favorite with Nichimo and Trumpeter being about the only producers of this ship scale.

I've seen the Trumpeter "Anshan" available and was wondering if it was a "2 in 1" kit. Does it contain parts to represent the earlier fit of torpedo tubes (in place of the later missile launchers) when it was accepted by China from the USSR or does it only contain the parts for the modernization refit? The reason I ask is because Jeffry has posted pics of an "Anshan" but it has torpedo tubes amidships and aft like the "Courageous". Somewhere along the line, after acceptance into the PLA Navy, missile launchers were added, hence the presumed difference in the two kits.

You fellows are the only ones I know of who have seen the in-the-box contents of this type of destroyer. Thanks.

 JEFFRY -- I,ll have you know I like what you did . I will always applaud the use of material other than ship specific when the need arises .You made excellent use of the rails . If it meets your criteria ,that,s all that is important .  Good job and keep up the inventiveness .!!! tankerbuilder

WOW, that looks fantastic! Fine work you've done there and the camera work really shows off this kit. You got something there; first ever build-up (that I've seen) of one of these obscure destroyers. I presume you followed the kit's painting instructions assuming it was in English? I'm going to have to get one of these kits.

Are the decks green? Colorful model if so. Again, well done and thanks for sharing the pics.

Hello tankerbuilder

The following are four pictures of the ship I have recently completed.  This is the second ship I have built.  I used "N" gauge railroad rails on the ship.  I cut off the bottom third rail.  Since I am new to ship modeling, I was not aware of photo-etch railings at the time. I am learning more everyday in researching ship modeling.

 

Jeff

 Hey FIRECAPTAIN -- The moniker comes from my proffessional field which is  a modeler of train scale ships (prefferably h.o.) and tankers primarily . I do V.L.C.C. types , L.N.G.types and old pre-panama and early post panamax types .I used to be an actual captain for a well known oil company(their name will not be mentioned ). Soooo , there,s where tankerbuilder came from. I don,t do ARMOR since BANDAI stopped doing their great little 1/48 scale line of really varied and excellently molded GERMAN armor subjects .Thats alright ,because I buy a lot of TRUMPETER ships anyway . I just thought ,WOW what a flea market or yard sale find !!  ----tankerbuilder

Firecaptain wrote:

tankerbuilder wrote:  Hey y,all --- I gotta share this . I just acquired at a flea market ,this model (TRUMPETER ?)I know , that,s what it says . TANKERBUILDER I'm surprised with a user-id of Tankerbuilder you are not familiar with Trumpeter. They are the new 800 pound gorilla in the plastic modelling world. You might look at their line of armor kits, especially their newer releases.

I saw these 1:200 warship kits by Trumpeter in St. Louis, Buffalo and Chicago hobby shops 3-6 years ago. I cannot find them anymore. I would say that Russian and Chinese modern destroyers had very little appeal in the US market despite the high quality per price ratio. It is not surprising that few modeler know about them. You can still find all 14 1:200 scale warship kits on the Trumpeter-China web site, but the latest Trumpeter-Stevens International (2008-2009) catalogue list only 3 1:200 ship kits. They are the two Russian SOVREMENNY class destroyers and the yet to be released USS Arizona.

Some of us had been burnt by the older 1:350 Trumpeter/Minicraft ship kits and may stay away from them. There some gems among the old 1:200 scales.

It is good that Tankerbuilder rekindle the interest in these obscure kits. It is modeling all about.

Firecaptain, the "Trumpeter" brand does not guarrantee a quality kit. See this post last year.

 

tankerbuilder wrote:

Hey y,all --- I gotta share this . I just acquired at a flea market ,this model (TRUMPETER ?)I know , that,s what it says . TANKERBUILDER

 I'm surprised with a user-id of Tankerbuilder you are not familiar with Trumpeter. They are the new 800 pound gorilla in the plastic modelling world. You might look at their line of armor kits, especially their newer releases.

My Courageous is 22" long by 2" wide.  The ship Chinese Anshan Destroyer is 433' long by 42' wide. Hope this helps.

Can anyone give the hull dimensions on the 1/200 Courageous?

I'm heavily into scale detail AND conversion to R/C. It easier these days on account of micro-sized components. I'm pleased to see people giving these rather obscure kits, on account of the subject matter, a second glance.

Incidentally, I have seen pics of a built-up 1/200 Zhuhai (Luda Class missile destroyer) and it wasn't all that bad.

 Hey JEFFRY !  -- When I bought mine we had to find a bag big enough to putit in . The box was in such bad shape ,that I expected to have parts missing . I didn,t have to go the paint and etched brass route as these things are fairly common at the shop . I will buy paint and p.e. whether I need it right then or not . I am going to try to get the other two .   tankerbuilder

I built the Courageous.  This was the second kit that I built. It was a lot of fun and I agree it has a lot of nice details. I paid $5 for the kit.  I spent a great deal more for the paint, railing, etc.

I also have the ShenZhen and the Sovremenny 956.  Since I am new at building model kits, I will tackle them next year.

When I received the Courageous, it came in a crused box.  So it was a surprise, when I finished. 

Only $7 for Courageous 1:200? that's damned cheap! I still don't have it yet. I agree with keilau that Sovremenny 1:200 is one of Trumpeter's best big-scale ships. I have two built and still have one in stock.

 Thank you E-PINNIGER! I will be on the lookout for these ships !I really shouldn,t say this BUT ,being as how this is a flea market find , I only paid $7.00 for this kit !  tankerbuilder

The Trumpeter "Courageous" kit is a Soviet WW2 destroyer of the Project 7 class. Several of these ships were transferred to the PLAN (Chinese navy) in the 1950s as the "Anshan" class. The Trumpeter kit is more or less accurate for these ships at the time they were transferred, so you can also build it as a post-war Soviet ship. I believe Trumpeter also produce an "Anshan" kit in later fit with missiles replacing the torpedo tubes.

As you say, it's definitely one of Trumpeter's better 1/200 kits, and a bargain at the current retail price! Their Sovremenny is also excellent, though it does have some accuracy issues (such as the shape of the 120mm turrets) and some of their more recent PLAN ships, such as the Shenzhen and Harbin, are also pretty good. Be warned, though, that some of their earlier 1/200 Chinese warship kits, such as the Jiangwei class frigate and Luda class destroyer, are seriously crude - almost Lindberg quality! They can be improved, but it will require a lot of scratchbuilding, and good reference photos for these ships can be hard to find.

If you're interested in 1/200 scale warships, you'll probably also be interested in the Nichimo range. They produce a couple of IJN WW2 destroyers (Kagero and Akizuki), some post-war Japanese ships, and a couple of subs (Type IX U-boat and a WW2 IJN type), as well as the Yamato. All the kits are quite pricey though, the destroyers sell for about £60-70 retail in the UK and I think their US price is over $100. They are, however, very detailed and accurate kits which only really need PE rails + ladders and a few touches like AA gun sights to complete them.

You got the Trumpeter #03609 kit. I have not seen it in person and am glad that it is a good kit.

Trumpeter has 14 1:200 scale kits whose quality do vary a bit. The best are the #03612, 3613 and 3614, which are the Russian SOVREMENNY class destroyers. These three usually sell for $40-50 in the US. The other earlier ones can be had for $10-25. There are plenty of listing for these kits on Ebay. (Search for "Trumpeter 1/200")

I have the #3603 Harbin and the #3612 Soveremenny. Both are wonderful kits for the money. In fact, I consider the #3612 Soveremenny my best ship kit, bar none. The 3612 comes with its own PE set. I bought a generic 1:200 railing PE set for the Harbin kit.