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S.S. UNITED STATES

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  • Member since
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S.S. UNITED STATES
Posted by tankerbuilder on Thursday, August 27, 2009 4:49 PM
 I am curious , who has seen the relatively large model of the liner UNITED STATES   out there .WHO is it made by ?? where can I get one . I know it,s not the best out there , but , I did one years ago . I used drafters detail tapes to upgrade the windows and doors on deck and it looked alright !I just wonder was it PYRO Or?????? TANKERBUILDER
  • Member since
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Posted by caramonraistlin on Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:37 PM

Greetings:

I'm pretty sure you're talking about the one from Glencoe. It is 1/400 scale and is quite large. I have one and it measures 28" long from the top of the bow to the stern. It does have some problems such as some of the superstructure isn't quite right (the front of the bridge) but it is the only large scale version I know of.

 

Sincerely

 

Michael Lacey 

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: Jacksonville, Florida
Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Friday, August 28, 2009 10:33 AM

It's not really not much more than a toy. Our local maritime museum asked a local builder for a 1/192 model of the United States. Someone donated the original ITC (?) kit that Glencoe would eventually release. The master model builder looked at the model, compared it to his drawings and photos, and said "this is a toy." If I'm not mistaken, it was originally powered as well, and I think the scale is more like 1/425.

Just a 14 year old memory there...

"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
  • Member since
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  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Friday, August 28, 2009 12:01 PM
How big was the old Revell kit?  Was that around 1/500 or smaller? (understanding, of course, that I think it was actually a box scale kit, so it's probably not exact)

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Weymouth, Dorset, UK
Posted by chris hall on Friday, August 28, 2009 1:34 PM

The old Revell kit was a box-scale effort,but very close to 1/600. Here's a reveiw/build article:

http://www.modelingmadness.com/reviews/misc/ships/hiottssus.htm

Cheers,

Chris.

Cute and cuddly, boys, cute and cuddly!
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, August 28, 2009 2:05 PM

To my knowledge the Revell and ITC/Glencoe offerings are the only plastic kits that have ever represented this great ship.  Neither of them represents the current state of the art.  It's been suggested that the Glencoe version actually looks a little more like the United States's not-very-similar older sister, the S.S. America.  If so, it's probably by coincidence.

Model companies in the fifties had an excuse for representing this ship inaccurately.  She was built with the help of a big subsidy from the federal government, with the understanding that she would be made available to the Navy in wartime as a high-speed transport.  Her underwater hull lines were kept classified for a long time.  That probably explains, at least in part, the strange, flat-bottomed configuration of the old Revell kit.  (It could almost be called a waterline model.  Apparently modelers of that vintage saw nothing odd about the sight of such a model sitting high and dry on a pair of Revell's "trestle" stands.)

The ITC/Glencoe kit gives the impression that it was designed without the benefit of any plans of the actual ship - probably on the basis of photos.  Things like that happened in the "golden age" of plastic kits.  Revell, Lindberg, and Aurora all issued models of the submarine Nautilus before she was launched.  All those kits were based on pure speculation as to what she would look like.  I suspect the ITC United States was the result of something similar.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
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Posted by tankerbuilder on Friday, August 28, 2009 6:53 PM
 Hi --Jtilley ---You know what ? I do believe you are dead on . I now remember a veteran in one of my classes with one . He painted his to look like a troop transport !! That also reminds me that ,yes , it was originally motorized!! I do believe that you are right in the comment about the stronger resemblance to  the S.S. AMERICA . A fellow in San Francisco once told me the ITC/GLENCOE model was to short to be the UNITED STATES ! He never explained his comment though . I do know that the PRESIDENT LINER is to short by a scale 46 feet !! Do you suppose that,s why REVELL,S SAVANNAH nuclear ship looks more like a yacht than what she was ,a cargoliner ??
  • Member since
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  • From: Derry, New Hampshire, USA
Posted by rcboater on Friday, August 28, 2009 9:27 PM
 jtilley wrote:

That probably explains, at least in part, the strange, flat-bottomed configuration of the old Revell kit.  (It could almost be called a waterline model.  Apparently modelers of that vintage saw nothing odd about the sight of such a model sitting high and dry on a pair of Revell's "trestle" stands.)

 I always thought that the early Revell ship kits had flat bottoms so that you could play with them on your bedroom floor......

Webmaster, Marine Modelers Club of New England

www.marinemodelers.org

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, August 29, 2009 12:37 AM

You may very well be right, rcboater.  As a matter of fact one of my earliest memories is of a plastic toy United States (considerably bigger than the Revell kit) that had a flat bottom and wheels to facilitate cruises around the living room.

It's also true, though, that in the early fifties the underwater hull lines of lots of WWII-vintage ships were still classified.  The old Revell Missouri was a bit of a special case.  The original, 1953 issue of it (Revell's very first ship kit - apart from the tiny Gowland sailing ships Revell had begun distributing a year earlier) had an electric motor.  (My source about all this is, as usual, Dr. Thomas Graham's history of Revell.)  In order to accommodate the motor, batteries, etc., the hull had to be pretty deep.  Its depth probably is somewhere close to the scale - but in every other respect it bears little resemblance to reality. 

What really seems weird is the inclusion of those "trestle" stands.  What would have been wrong with telling the purchaser that the model was cut off at the waterline?  (For that matter - what would have been wrong with cutting it off at the actual normal waterline?  Several of those old kits - the T-2 tanker and the C-3 freighter, for instance, look improbably lightly loaded.)

Apparently, though, nobody minded the strange sight of a waterline model sitting on trestles.  We did have different ideas about scale fidelity - and rationality - in those days....

Maybe the day will come when some company will give us a new, accurate United States kit.  (There's no problem figuring out what she looks like below the waterline nowadays; the museum where I used to work has the original plating model - as well as a good set of plans.)  The number of holes in the available lines of merchant ship kits is enormous, but a good model of the U.S. would plug one of the biggest ones.  She was, in her brief heyday, an important and beautiful ship.

I saw her once when she was in active service - when my parents took me on a vacation trip to New York in (I think) 1966.  I remember the cab driver explaining that she was immobilized at her pier because part of the crew was on strike.  The significance of that didn't strike me at the time - but it marked the beginning of the end. 

I also had the great good fortune to get a close look at her (or parts of her, at least) in 1982 or 1983.  At that time she was tied up at Norfolk, Virginia, supposedly on the verge of being converted into a cruise ship.  (That was one of many proposals that never came to fruition.)  Much of her original equipment and decoration was about to be stripped from her, and the museum where I worked was trying to acquire it.  So my boss and I got a guided tour of a lot of her interior spaces as we made up a shopping list.  The museum eventually got, among other artifacts a spun-glass sculpture (called "Expressions of Freedom") that hung over the bar in the first-class dining room.  (We had quite a fight over that one.  A certain member of the museum's board of trustees tried to veto the purchase, on the grounds that "I've eaten many a meal under that thing and it's always made me want to vomit."  Museum studies 101:  whether you think an artifact is pretty or not is irrelevant.  What matters is its historical significance.) 

Some of the lesser items eventually were offered for sale in the museum gift shop; I got a nice little shot glass.  My favorite souvenir of her, though, is a postcard that I picked up from a desk somewhere around the bridge.  It has a picture of the ship on the front, and spaces on the back to fill in the departure and arrival dates for a particular Atlantic crossing; the cards were passed out to passengers as they disembarked.  After considerable thought I worked up the nerve to ask our guide on that afternoon tour, Commodore Roy Alexanderson, to sign it for me - which he graciously did. 

The last time I saw her she was tied up to a pier in Philadelphia, within sight of I-95.  (We went through at rush hour; my wife was scared stiff that I was going to wreck the car because I was craning my neck around, looking at "one more d--n ship.")  She looked pretty rusty and sad, but still, in a certain way, majestic.  I do hope she comes to some end other than the scrapyard. 

In any case, if a plastic or resin kit manufacturer ever does release a decent S.S. United States kit, I'll be at the head of the line to buy one.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    July 2005
Posted by caramonraistlin on Saturday, August 29, 2009 8:18 AM

Greetings:

 

I didn't realize that the Glencoe model was too short. Like I previously mentioned I quickly measured the length of mine and found it to be 28 inches long. The length of the real ship is listed at 990'. So if this model is 1/400 then it is 1.7" too short. I do have a set of plans for it and I'll have to compare them to the model to see what else might be wrong. I already know the bridge area is incorrect after comparing it to photographs of the real ship. I expected this sort of thing but just assumed they'd get the basic overall dimensions right. I'll have to figure out where it's too short and insert a section to correct this. I haven't checked the width of it either but maybe this is wrong also. It is rather disappointing as this is the largest readily available large model of it. I've already done quite a lot of work to the hull such as fixing the bridge and removing all those horrible solid molded on pieces of plastic that are supposed to be railings. Oh well, live and learn. Maybe it would be easier to just scratch build the whole thing. I do have a copy of the Popular Mechanics 1952 issue which shows how to build a 36" one out of wood. Pretty interesting article as it includes plans. Templates for all the decks as well as profiles for the hull are provided. The author points out that it is an easy matter to  cut the hull out on a band saw! Probably is but when I was growing up in the late fifties/early sixties, none of my friend's fathers had band saws. I knew of one who had the standard bench top circular saw but the people I knew didn't have fancy wood working tools lying about. I especially like the cover picture of this special Christmas issue as it shows dad dressed in a white dress shirt and tie giving little Johnny the model of the ship he made with the Christmas tree in the background. I don't know about you folks but the world I grew up in didn't have Fred McMurry types in a suit heading into the plant on the weekend a la My Three Sons. Hmmm, maybe that's why years later I ended up being an Engineer except I don't golf which seemed to be Steve's big thing on that show. Oh well, they were good times anyway.

 

Sincerely

 

Michael Lacey

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Boston
Posted by Wilbur Wright on Saturday, August 29, 2009 2:13 PM

I have the Glencoe kit and its the worst model I've ever seen. I had to cut off all the plastic rails and sand to the deck. The hull is all verticle divets that need to be sanded or filled.

I got it 75 % finished and shelved it. I'll finish it someday as I have the GMM photo etch for 1/400 ships. 

I really wanted a model of this ship, however I am sorry I bought this.

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: USA
Posted by cruichin on Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:19 AM

I built the Glencoe kit as a nostalgia project, since I crossed the Pond on her in 1964. The kit is definitely toy-like. My wife liked the colors, though. It sits on a top shelf bookcase, with a luggage tag, two drinking glasses and a sterling silver coffepot from the ship.

 Steve

  • Member since
    August 2009
Posted by PlanB on Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:41 PM

I think of the lovely SSUS every time a company rolls out yet another kit of the Titanic. . .

Anyway, I bought the Glencoe model some years ago, and as someone's said, it looks great up on a (high) shelf, but it is very toy-like.  It was my understanding it was originally made by Marx, and would light up and roll along the floor.  Old built-up examples from the Fifties sometimes turn up on eBay as "lamps" because of the lights inside.  From the pictures I've seen of the old Revell kit, it looks much more accurate, at least above the waterline. 

Someday I hope to scratchbuild a big model of the S.S. United States, but anyone doing so has to first sort through the long, daunting list of plan sheets available from the Smithsonian.  Apparently depicting every imaginable system and fitting on the actual ship, this mass of data came from Gibbs & Cox, she ship's designers, and would, I believe, give even Fred MacMurray pause.

  • Member since
    July 2005
Posted by caramonraistlin on Sunday, August 30, 2009 6:27 PM

Greetings:

 Can't you just picture Steve sitting in his home office arguing with Uncle Charlie along these lines " not now Uncle Charlie I've got to finish these plans of this ship I've been working on. It's gonna use the same turbines we're putting in that new plane Robbie's working on. Chip will just have to walk or get a ride to football practice with one of his friends."

 

Michael Lacey

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, August 30, 2009 10:54 PM

The name of Fred McMurray has come up a couple of times in this thread.  I wonder if it's pure coincidence that there actually is a connection between him and the United States.

In 1962 Walt Disney released a movie called "Bon Voyage."  It was a "family comedy" about an allegedly typical midwestern family on a trip to Paris.  The stars included Tommy Kirk, Kevin Corcoran (there's a pair of Disney names to remember), Jane Wyman, and Fred McMurray.  Much of it was filmed on board the United States.

The movie has a pretty wretched reputation.  Leonard Maltin's 2009 TV Movie Guide gives it one and a half stars, and describes it as "aimed more at adults than kids, but too draggy and simple-minded for anyone."  Except, of course, modelers who are instantly smitten by color movie film of the great ship.

I don't think I've ever sat through the whole thing; I don't know how much of it actually takes place on board the ship.  I seem to recall having read, somewhere or other, about a scene near the end in which a gang of middle-aged women chase Mr. McMurray through the ship, with the intention of catching him and...well, doing something or other with him.  The scene apparently was downright shocking to 1962 audiences, and the critics regarded it as a serious tarnish mark on Disney's reputation as a maker of movies for the whole family.  Disney supposedly said "I'll never do that again."

Here's a webpage with an interesting reminiscence:  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055807/board/nest/71260753 .  Sounds like this gentleman had the Revell kit.

It's apparently available on VHS and DVD.

 

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    August 2009
Posted by PlanB on Monday, August 31, 2009 10:18 AM

Hello-

Here's a link to the Popular Mechanics cover in question.  There's a definite resemblance to Mr. McMurray:

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj206/PlanBModels/PMSSUSCover.jpg

Generally, I think the cover (and the article) call up a sentimental image of the era.  Whether or not it's a sanitized image, and to what extent, is for others to say- I didn't come along until the early Sixties.  I do wonder, though, if men in the Fifties really did hang around their own homes wearing a necktie.  Perhaps the gentleman in the painting is expecting Christmas guests, and so has dressed up for the occasion.  In any instance, the idea that building a model together was seen as a way to bring father and son together seems a little quaint now, maybe because in practice model building often, though not always, winds up a solitary pursuit.  Then again, maybe Sonny Boy found the constant company of Dear Old Dad crushingly boring, and decided to listen to Rock & Roll with his friends instead.  We may never know for sure.

 Ken B.

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Seattle, Colorado
Posted by onyxman on Monday, August 31, 2009 10:56 AM

Wasn't Uncle Charlie supposed to be retired from the Merchant Marine? Or maybe it was Uncle Bub.

I went to High School in Weehawken, NJ. (Class of '67)  I well remember the line-up of great ships at the piers across the Hudson. Queen Mary, Queen Elizabeth, United States, France....

I always thought the United States needed to cut off those ugly 1950s style funnels.

Fred

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Monday, August 31, 2009 11:48 AM
 jtilley wrote:

The name of Fred McMurray has come up a couple of times in this thread.  I wonder if it's pure coincidence that there actually is a connection between him and the United States.

In 1962 Walt Disney released a movie called "Bon Voyage."  It was a "family comedy" about an allegedly typical midwestern family on a trip to Paris.  The stars included Tommy Kirk, Kevin Corcoran (there's a pair of Disney names to remember), Jane Wyman, and Fred McMurray.  Much of it was filmed on board the United States.

The movie has a pretty wretched reputation.  Leonard Maltin's 2009 TV Movie Guide gives it one and a half stars, and describes it as "aimed more at adults than kids, but too draggy and simple-minded for anyone."  Except, of course, modelers who are instantly smitten by color movie film of the great ship.

I don't think I've ever sat through the whole thing; I don't know how much of it actually takes place on board the ship.  I seem to recall having read, somewhere or other, about a scene near the end in which a gang of middle-aged women chase Mr. McMurray through the ship, with the intention of catching him and...well, doing something or other with him.  The scene apparently was downright shocking to 1962 audiences, and the critics regarded it as a serious tarnish mark on Disney's reputation as a maker of movies for the whole family.  Disney supposedly said "I'll never do that again."

Here's a webpage with an interesting reminiscence:  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055807/board/nest/71260753 .  Sounds like this gentleman had the Revell kit.

It's apparently available on VHS and DVD.

 

I remember "Bon Voyage". They showed it at the base theater back in 1963. The thing about it that I remember most, besides the voyage over, was the family being lost in the sewers of Paris. Maybe they should have left the movie there.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Roanoke, Virginia
Posted by BigJim on Monday, August 31, 2009 8:25 PM

...and how many of you have a copy of the book about the S.S. United States "The Big Ship"?

http://www.amazon.com/big-ship-United-States-publication/dp/0917376374/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251768161&sr=1-1

 I would also like a good large scale model of this famous ship, but only if it had the proper hull contours below the waterline.

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