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Revell is Re-releaseing the Bon Homme Richard - Old Aurora Mold

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  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, November 2, 2009 3:07 AM

I think Steve P is right - though the company now called Bluejacket was named Boucher Models until fairly recently.

I think the ancient little Pyro kit may have been based on the same plans.  I recall seeing a model that looked more-or-less like that in one of the big American museums, but I can't for the life of me remember which ones.

I don't think Jean Boudriot would want his reconstruction of the ship to be viewed as the only "accurate" way to represent her.  But it certainly deserves to be taken more seriously than the Aurora version.

Some years ago (my brain tends to underestimate such things; it may have been as long ago as twenty years) there was some talk of an expedition that was trying to find the wreck of the actual ship.  I wonder if anything ever came of that. 

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    October 2009
Posted by Steve P on Saturday, October 31, 2009 9:54 PM

I believe that the Aurora BHR was based on a plan from one of the model boat companies from the 40's or 50's--Model Shipways or Bluejacket. I had such a plan and the Aurora kit looks very close to it.

Which makes it all wrong, since the person who drew it did not seem to know the difference between a British and French East Indiaman. The British were built to take advantage of a tax loophole--narrow and deep, reportedly bad, slow sailers. The French were simple large armed merchantmen.

The model hull is slabsided, like a later merchantman, without any tumblehome, which was even more pronounced in the French ships. It looks nothing like the Boudriot drawings.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, October 31, 2009 8:08 PM

Caramonraistlin's pictures confirm my impression:  the Marx/Lindberg See Witch, though it inevitably shows its age, is a basically sound kit that could form the basis for a fine scale model.  Getting rid of the vac-form sails, replacing the deadeyes and lanyards, and adding copper sheathing would make a big difference.  It looks to me like it could stand comparison with the Revell Cutty Sark.

There's an interesting question about the crew figures.  They sure don't look like any I can remember as being in Revell kits.  (My earlier comment about modified Revell figures in a Sea Witch kit referred to the Aurora one.)  They don't seem to have quite the sophisticated detail that their Revell equivalents have, but they aren't badly proportioned; a good paint job could make all the difference.  Lindberg's website ( http://lindberg-models.com/water_model70812.html ) claims that they are included in the kit - and they're visible in a couple of the photos there.  I wonder if caramonraistlin got a defective kit.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    July 2005
Posted by caramonraistlin on Saturday, October 31, 2009 1:38 PM

Greetings:

 

As promised here is some photos I took of the Lindberg Sea Witch kit with some comparisons between the Marx kit. The kits are the same with the exception of a new 3 piece plastic deck and the set of 6 figures are no longer included. The instructions are a direct copy of the Marx with a new cover page by Lindberg included. Here's a connection to the link:

http://s461.photobucket.com/albums/qq333/caramonraistlin/LINDBERG%20SEA%20WITCH/?start=all

I can confirm that the Lindberg/Marx hull is 24 3/8" long and is 4 1/4" at its widest point.

 

Michael Lacey

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:54 PM
There is a "painted 24 inch Aurora Sea Witch" listed on Ebay. The photo shows just the box. If the box is the same size as the one Wanderer came in,(and I susoect it is) it's 23 inches long. I seem to recall the mark box as being larger than that, and much deeper. The marx hull is 24 inches, and with the bowsprit, and spanker boom, would be about 34-36 inches long.

Lead me not into temptation ..................I can find it myself

  • Member since
    July 2005
Posted by caramonraistlin on Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:01 PM

Professor Tilley:

I took some pictures of my Marx Sea Witch kit which I bought partially assembled on ebay for the reasonable price of $20. I will later take some pictures of my Lindberg Sea Witch kit along with a few comparison shots. You were right about the crew and I've included a few photos of the captain and his five crew. They came in a separate little box as you can see. Here is a link to the pictures in photobucket:

http://s461.photobucket.com/albums/qq333/caramonraistlin/Marx%20Sea%20Witch/?start=all

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:10 AM
 sumpter250 wrote:

 jtilley wrote:
I'm at least 90 percent sure caramonraistlin has it right.  There was a story floating around for a long time to the effect that the Lindberg Sea Witch was a reissue of the Aurora one, with vac-form sails replacing the injection-molded ones.  I don't think that's true.  The Aurora kit was, I'm pretty certain, considerably smaller; it think it was an Aurora original.

You can make that 99.635 percent. I have the remains of a Marx kit, and I have seen the  Lindberg. The hulls are identical. If I ever get over playing with trains, and space ships, I might finally use that hull and scratchbuild the decks, houses, hatches, masts and spars in wood, and rig her according to standard practices. 

I don't think there's any room for doubt about the Marx/Lindberg Sea Witch connection.  What I'm slightly less certain about is where the old Aurora kit fits in the picture (if at all). 

I bought the Aurora kit when it was new; I confess I didn't get far with it before I decided it wasn't worth the trouble.  (Everything from the weather decks up would have had to be scratchbuilt.)  I've never had that kit and either the Marx or Aurora one in front of me at the same time.  I used to think (and I have the impression that quite a few other folks were of the same opinion) that Aurora had recycled the hull and most of the other parts of the Marx kit, just replacing the masts and sails.  But the more I read about the subject, the more I'm inclined to think the Aurora kit was completely original.

That said, I have to admit that if the Aurora version were to reappear I wouldn't buy it.  The Lindberg one is currently in the company catalog.  I don't think I've ever seen it outside the box, but on the basis of photos on the Lindberg website it certainly looks like a better-than-respectable kit.  Given the shortage of large-scale plastic sailing ship kits, this one looks to me like it deserves to be taken quite seriously; I think it could form the basis for an excellent scale model.  And it's the only large-scale plastic American clipper ship out there.

Incidentally - it sticks in my mind that the one currently being sold by Lindberg also was once issued by ITC (after Marx got out of the scale model business).  Does anybody else have that recollection?

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Friday, October 30, 2009 7:50 PM

I welcome these retreads! As I've said in other threads, I'd rather have an inaccurate kit of a ship that I can modify and improve than have nothing at all.  I agree that the molded sails were hideous, but there is no law that I have to use them!  And, John is absolutely correct about the dummie barrels on the Richard, but I would discard them, carve out the gunports, and add gundecks and other internal details as best as I can.  I will look forward to these rereleases!

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Friday, October 30, 2009 3:25 PM

 jtilley wrote:
I'm at least 90 percent sure caramonraistlin has it right.  There was a story floating around for a long time to the effect that the Lindberg Sea Witch was a reissue of the Aurora one, with vac-form sails replacing the injection-molded ones.  I don't think that's true.  The Aurora kit was, I'm pretty certain, considerably smaller; it think it was an Aurora original.

You can make that 99.635 percent. I have the remains of a Marx kit, and I have seen the  Lindberg. The hulls are identical. If I ever get over playing with trains, and space ships, I might finally use that hull and scratchbuild the decks, houses, hatches, masts and spars in wood, and rig her according to standard practices. 

Lead me not into temptation ..................I can find it myself

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, October 30, 2009 1:36 PM

I'm at least 90 percent sure caramonraistlin has it right.  There was a story floating around for a long time to the effect that the Lindberg Sea Witch was a reissue of the Aurora one, with vac-form sails replacing the injection-molded ones.  I don't think that's true.  The Aurora kit was, I'm pretty certain, considerably smaller; it think it was an Aurora original. 

I do remember a couple of curious things about it.  It had a set of crew figures that looked like they'd been copied, rather ineptly, from Revell kits (e.g., the Bounty and the tug Long Beach).  And the sails looked remarkably like the vac-formed ones from the Revell Thermopylae.  They even had raised lines on their fronts and grooves in their backs, like vac-formed parts would.  (That feature looked even more ridiculous on an injection-molded "sail.")

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    July 2005
Posted by caramonraistlin on Friday, October 30, 2009 8:49 AM

Greetings:

I'd like to comment on the Lindberg Sea Witch kit. It is a copy of the old Marx kit except with a new plastic deck instead of the original metal one. I have both so it is easy to compare the two. The kit is quite detailed and the instructions are fairly complete. It may not be at the same level as the Revell Cutty Sark but should build into a fairly impressive model. The instructions even tell you how to make a simplified display case for it! The sails for it are not molded onto the yards but are separate vacuum formed ones like Revells. Someday I plan to start on mine.

Sincerely

 

Michael Lacey

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Thursday, October 29, 2009 11:47 AM

 EPinniger wrote:
I completed their USS Hartford earlier this year (definitely my favourite of them all - I wish they'd reissue this one too!) and have the clipper Sea Witch and Wanderer whaler as built-up models bought cheaply on eBay to restore one day.

The book "Whale Ships and Whaling", Albert Cook Church, Bonanza Books, has several photographs of Wanderer that could help with your restoration process.

I intend to completely replace all the masts and spars on Wanderer. I've already rebuilt the tryworks, and relocated the main hatch. I'm researching other "details of question". 

Lead me not into temptation ..................I can find it myself

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Thursday, October 29, 2009 11:39 AM

 jtilley wrote:
I suspect some collectors, having shelled out hundreds of dollars for old Aurora kits, are sharpening their hari-kiri knives.  But I guess that market puts high values on such things as original boxes and instruction sheets.

Thankyou Prof. Tilley you made my day! I bought Wanderer at a garage sale for $5.00 

Lead me not into temptation ..................I can find it myself

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:39 AM

I did buy this one back when it was originally issued (sometime in the mid- to late seventies, if I remember right).  I don't remember a great deal about it, and I haven't seen it since.  But what I do remember isn't favorable.

The big problem with this subject, of course, is that there's scarcely any reliable information about what the real ship looked like.  Jean Boudriot, the dean of French naval architectural history in the sailing ship period, did publish a book about her some years back (in the late eighties, I think - long after the Aurora kit appeared).  He drew a detailed set of plans - entirely reconstructed.  They're based on a set of lines for a French East Indiaman of the period that came from the same designer and yard as Le Duc de Duras (the Bonhomme Richard's original name).  M. Boudriot himself would be the first to emphasize that those plans amount to educated guesswork (very educated guesswork in this case).  But in any case, they don't look much like the Aurora kit.

My recollection of the kit is that, like the others in the series (the Hartford, Sea Witch, and Wanderer) it was long on good intentions but short on accuracy and detail.  There weren't many parts, and most of the details were pretty basic.  (I think - though I'm not sure - the guns below the weather decks were "dummies" that plugged into holes in the hull, a la Airfix.)  And, of course, it had those hideous, injection-molded sails cast integrally with the yards.

To each his/her own, but I'll pass on this one.

It's a shame that the American Revolution has excited so little interest among ship modelers - and those who have gotten enthusiastic about it have so often picked subjects that aren't well documented (e.g., the Bonhomme Richard and the brig Lexington).  There's good documentation on a number of interesting ships from the Revolution - notably the American frigates Raleigh, Hancock, Randolph, and Virginia, and any number of important British ships.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Wednesday, October 28, 2009 10:52 PM
I wonder if its worth making your own yards for her?

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 10:50 PM
The Bon Homme Richard was my first (and last) plastic sailing ship model. After spending a week of my elementary school Christmas vacation tackling that beast, I went back to planes.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Derry, New Hampshire, USA
Posted by rcboater on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:03 PM

I built the Hartford and Wanderer as a kid-- the Hartford is a kit I'd buy if it came out again. 

I remember an adult  neighbor had the Aurora BHR kit-- I was envious-- but I never saw it built....

 

Webmaster, Marine Modelers Club of New England

www.marinemodelers.org

 

  • Member since
    January 2006
Posted by EPinniger on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 1:30 PM

Interesting! This is the one kit in the old Aurora range which I've never seen (haven't even seen the box art before now). I completed their USS Hartford earlier this year (definitely my favourite of them all - I wish they'd reissue this one too!) and have the clipper Sea Witch and Wanderer whaler as built-up models bought cheaply on eBay to restore one day. (Sooner or later I'll get round to putting some photos of them up on my website)

The moulded sails/yards in the Aurora kits are truly awful (the ones in the Hartford kit gave me a lot of trouble, I ended up replacing most of the smaller ones with modified yards salvaged from an old Airfix kit) but the level of of detail is otherwise very good for their age, and the subjects are so unique, that they're still well worth building for an experienced modeller with an interest in the subject matter.

I don't know much about the Aurora Bonhomme Richard kit, but have heard that it was the least accurate of their large sailing ship range, being based on old and inaccurate drawings. Anyone know more about this?

It's also interesting to see Revell are reissuing their 1/240 USS Buckley DE kit (they reissued the "Campbeltown" four-piper in the same scale last year).

Reissues definitely do affect the prices of vintage kits in cases like this, when they're unique subjects (or scale/subject combinations) not available in newer form - modellers who actually want to build the kits no longer have to compete with collectors. But vintage kits with the original box and instructions in good condition will still retain a lot of their market value.

(EDIT: Here's a photo of the original Aurora BHR kit on oldmodelkits.com. Can't find a photo of a built model, though)

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 10:15 AM

 Felix C. wrote:
I guess we will find out eventually but does any have a visual on what a Bon Homme Richard from Aurora looks like?
Run screaming from the room! That kit almost singlehandedly got me out of modeling, after i'd worked my way through the big Revell ships.

VW bus is a jewel. I'd also like to see the Porsche Speedster and 911 rally car again.

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Miami, FL
Posted by Felix C. on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:59 AM
I guess we will find out eventually but does any have a visual on what a Bon Homme Richard from Aurora looks like? All I ever see is the boxart.
  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: West Virginia, USA
Posted by mfsob on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:50 AM
Old molds never die, they just get sold and reboxed Pirate [oX)] But I agree, it is nice to see some of the kits from my childhood rising like a phoenix from the ashes.
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:45 AM

Wow...who'd athunk it.  I'm no fan of that particular kit (or any of the others in that series, with their injection-molded plastic "sails" cast integrally with the yards).  But there are some other interesting things on that "Special Subjects" list.  I'll absolutely have to buy at least one of those old Aurora knights in armor, which I built many times when I was in grade school.  And though I haven't built a car model in decades, some of the ones in that announcement (the VW Microbus in particular) are stirring up the ol' nostalgia genes.  And it'll be nice to have the old Buckley-class DE available again.

I suspect some collectors, having shelled out hundreds of dollars for old Aurora kits, are sharpening their hari-kiri knives.  But I guess that market puts high values on such things as original boxes and instruction sheets.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:41 AM

These model are being re-popped by MPC And Round 2

 

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=269737

 

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Revell is Re-releaseing the Bon Homme Richard - Old Aurora Mold
Posted by Big Jake on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:37 AM

This might be old news but I just founs out that Revell is re-popping the old Aurora Bon Homme Richard in Mid 2010. See Link.. Can the Wanderer Whaler be far behind!  in 1/132nd. scale

 http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=270040

 

 

 

 

 

 

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