Lifeboat Colors

George

 The proper term is "ship's small boat", warships have "liferafts", oceanliners have lifeboats. It's not really a big thing but you may as well get it right. As to answer your question: small boats on US naval vessels in wartime are usually painted the ship's hull color, gray(or if camo, a color that matches the camo). Some large Navy ships in peacetime have small boats(admirals' gig for example) with a black hull and white cabin, usually high gloss black. In regards to the minesweeper, as it appeared in WWII, gray is a safe bet. The small boat interior is painted gray also, they would not be left natural wood. Good luck in your project.

Regards

Mike   

thunder1 wrote:

It's not really a big thing but you may as well get it right.

Likewise!

There were different types of boats (whale boats, launches, etc) and rafts (mainly size I.E. 25-man) as well as floater nets.

Ships' boats were to be painted to match the ship they were on, and if there was a pattern they were to fit in to that patter. Most boats were issued to ships in either Ocean Gray (5-O) or Navy Blue (5-N) but were painted to match fairly quickly. He's correct about the lack of natural wood coloring. Whaleboats were small enough and out of the water enough that they did not receive (black) anti-fouling in most cases.

Thanks for the correction and the suggested colors. How about the the canvas or rubber raft? They have it painted blue on the kit box and it does not look right to me. I will never buy a Linberg kit again.

George

You have to understand, the words "Lindberg" and "accuracy" should never be used in the same sentence

As far as the US Navy in WW II goes, "paint everything gray" is usually a safe bet. Heck, even the merchant marine did that. My Dad served on two Victory ships and remembered that the lifeboats were painted gray inside and out. On a navy ship, as pointed out by Tracy, the lifeboats and rafts would be painted to match whatever camouflage scheme the ship was wearing, so overall gray would be a good choice.

Which was why one line in a recent book I read about the fate of the USS Houston was so jarring, where it talked about two Marines getting ready to go over the side during her final moments, and how they climbed over an orange liferaft to get clear of the ship ...

So I should paint the guns gray as well?

George

George

 Yes, gray for guns would be correct, for some reason model ship instructions often indicate the guns painted black for some reason. As was pointed out by the other chaps, Lindberg is not "cutting edge" technology or well developed accuracy/production quality. Still they offer some interesting/offbeat ship models, I've built them all over the years, some can be built into a fair representation of the prototype with some work. Over at Warship modeler gallery there is a model of the Lindberg USAF air sea rescue boat. With a little effort and some detail it can result in a nice model. Just bear in mind Lindbergs kits date back to the 1950's. Good luck.

Mike

Thanks Mike

 

thunder1 wrote:

George  Yes, gray for guns would be correct, for some reason model ship instructions often indicate the guns painted black for some reason. As was pointed out by the other chaps, Lindberg is not "cutting edge" technology or well developed accuracy/production quality. Still they offer some interesting/offbeat ship models, I've built them all over the years, some can be built into a fair representation of the prototype with some work. Over at Warship modeler gallery there is a model of the Lindberg USAF air sea rescue boat. With a little effort and some detail it can result in a nice model. Just bear in mind Lindbergs kits date back to the 1950's. Good luck. Mike

 Hi gpal; I have to tell you this. The advice you are getting is correct. Although the NAVY liked grey. It is my experience that  the whaleboat is grey outside , black below the waterline and grey inside. All floaters are grey except in peacetime, and even then it,s up to the command authority ,based on their instructions from secnav, or comflt atlan or com flt pac. Our motor whaleboat was grey over black, white inside and had a lot of brightwork(GLOSS WOOD  VARNISHED) this was on direct orders from com des div 112. She had a white top with two ports on the forward sides of the top with an access hatch for the boat crew. There was also a lot of polished brass. The cleats, lifting eyes and such ,including the coxains rail. Unless you,re flagship of a division commanded by a martinet, you paint them grey, with or without the black below the waterline. All our carly floats (25 man) were grey.Martinet refers to the command style and personality of our commodore. Boy were we glad when he was gone!       tankerbuilder

Hi Tanker... he was refering to a WWII boat so I left it at that.. I've got photos of post-war boats and they're a lot brighter!

Regarding canvas, it was to be dyed to match the deck blue color.

http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/S19-7/1941SeptemberBuShipsNewConstPainting.html

http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/S19-7/1941OctoberSHIPS2Rev1.html#Canvas

Guns - it depends. Smaller guns like the 40mm and 20mm mounts had gunmetal barrels for the most part as the rate of fire would heat them up enough to burn the paint from the barrels. The rest of the mount and the shields were camouflaged. Larger guns such as the 3", 5", and up, were painted camouflage, sometimes including the "countershading" that saw light colors on the bottom and darker on top; you can see this more often on battleships and cruisers than anything else.

 

Along with the guns and small boat, the minesweeping winch and davits should also be grey, however the sweep gear (floats, otters, and depressor) should be white, not light grey as indicated in the kit instructions. You should be able to use Stranded Beading Wire as your port & staboard sweep wires and center depressor wire.  Scale chain can be used for the otter and depressor bridles (painted black). 

Matt

Mike and Tracy

You're info on the whale boats is timely as I just received my L'Arsonal whale boats for my Flectcher class DD, and was wondering how to paint them.

Thanks

Jim

Hello Matt,

I am sorry but you are losing me? I am a armor and truck guy but I am putting this Minesweeper kit together for a friend whos father was on one of these ships in WWII.

What are the sweep gear (floats, otters, and depressor)? What are the sweep wires and center depressor wire and the otter and depressor bridles .If you could show me pics that would be great.

Thank you so much, George

Ok, there's a "torpedo looking" thing with a wing on it, that's a paravane.

It's used to haul the sweep wire out along side of the ship.  The shape and wing dive it some "lift" so it can 'parallel' the vessel when towed at the right speed.

An otter is the pallet-looking thing on the sprue.  it's designed to pull the ship's end of the sweep wire down to the desired depth.

The sweep wire runs out from the ship and to the paravane.  There's a cutter blade on the paravane so that, when the floating mine's cable is collected in the sweep wire, the cutter nips the nooring wire, so the mine then floats to the surface.  It is then engaged with gunfire to hole the case, and cause the mine to sink.

The big reels on the stern of the sweep carry various wires to be streamed over the side for this.  Which gets technical, quickly (and faster than I can find an online reference right now).  If you can find them, WWII and KW-era BM/1&C manuals often have a great deal of detail on the "bits" involved.  A Knight's Nodern Seamanship from that era will too (if over-oriented towards CL & CLAA deployement).

One thing the Lindberg kit does not have are the spar-bouys used to mark channels.  But, that's not great loss.

Now, if it's after WWI, a bunch of the sweep gear is painted Red or Insignia orange or the like.  Paravanes are "handed" too (not that you can tell on the kit).  The port one will have either float or wing painted red, the starboard one in green. 

Now, if i could just find the right tome, I could tell you whether it's diamond-ball-diamond or ball-daimond-ball is the hoist for sweep operations--which is a cool detail to have by the flag bags.

maybe that helped, maybe not.

I need pictures.

George

CapnMac82 wrote:

Ok, there's a "torpedo looking" thing with a wing on it, that's a paravane. It's used to haul the sweep wire out along side of the ship.  The shape and wing dive it some "lift" so it can 'parallel' the vessel when towed at the right speed. An otter is the pallet-looking thing on the sprue.  it's designed to pull the ship's end of the sweep wire down to the desired depth. The sweep wire runs out from the ship and to the paravane.  There's a cutter blade on the paravane so that, when the floating mine's cable is collected in the sweep wire, the cutter nips the nooring wire, so the mine then floats to the surface.  It is then engaged with gunfire to hole the case, and cause the mine to sink. The big reels on the stern of the sweep carry various wires to be streamed over the side for this.  Which gets technical, quickly (and faster than I can find an online reference right now).  If you can find them, WWII and KW-era BM/1&C manuals often have a great deal of detail on the "bits" involved.  A Knight's Nodern Seamanship from that era will too (if over-oriented towards CL & CLAA deployement). One thing the Lindberg kit does not have are the spar-bouys used to mark channels.  But, that's not great loss. Now, if it's after WWI, a bunch of the sweep gear is painted Red or Insignia orange or the like.  Paravanes are "handed" too (not that you can tell on the kit).  The port one will have either float or wing painted red, the starboard one in green.  Now, if i could just find the right tome, I could tell you whether it's diamond-ball-diamond or ball-daimond-ball is the hoist for sweep operations--which is a cool detail to have by the flag bags. maybe that helped, maybe not.

They are not paravanes, they are size 1 Oropressa ("O") type floats.  The Admirable Class minesweepers (which this kit represents) did not use paravanes.  This type of sweep gear is used (yes WWII technology still in use today) for mechanical minesweeping, where a wire rope is streamed behind the ship, diverted to port and/or starboard, with explosive cutters spaced along its length.  A float and an otter (mulitplane kite) are rigged at the outboard end of the sweep wire to give span and depth to the wire.  A depressor (also a mulitplane kite) is rigged to a centerline wire rope and deployed to give depth to the inboard end of the sweep.  The explosive cutters cut the tether (chain or wire rope) of a moored mine upon contact.

Go here for a description of the sweep and its componenets.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/navy/nrtc/14160_ch8.pdf

 Please feel free to let me know if you've questions, I've streamed and recovered every configuration of mechanical and influence sweep there is many, many times.

 Matt

Senior Chief Mineman (USN Ret.)

CIC Officer, USS PIONEER (MCM 9)

CIC Officer, USS ARDENT (MCM 12)

1st LT, USS CHAMPION (MCM 4)

Excellent info, Chief. One question, and seriously, how does the MCM itself avoid hitting a mine?

bondoman wrote:

Excellent info, Chief. One question, and seriously, how does the MCM itself avoid hitting a mine?

Good question, and there are a couple of ways that its done for contact mines.  First, while minesweeping the ship has lookouts posted on the foc'sle and around the weather deck looking for floating or tethered mines.  If one is spotted the ship maneuvers if it can, and also will use water blasts from a fire hose to push the mine away.  Additionally, minesweepers have a shallower draft than destroyers, cruisers, and aircraft carriers.  Mines are generally set at keel depth for these targets and a minesweeper can maneuver over the top.  Additionally, if the minesweepr has sonar then that can be used to detect and avoid mines in the water column.

To reduce risk from influence (magnetically and acoustically activated) mines, the ship is constructed of wood (The AVENGER Class Mine Countermeasures (MCM) Ship is the only wooden combatant in the fleet) and uses non-ferrous metals for fittings and equipment as much as possible, including depermed diesel engines.  They are also equipped with a system of degaussing coils located throughout the ship to reduce the remainig magnetic signature.  The ship is also acoustically silenced.

Even with all of these measures and more, there is still a lot of risk involved in conducting mine countermeasures.  Minesweep Sailors have two sayings, "Wooden Ships and Iron Men" and "Where the Fleet goes, We've already been".

 Matt

 

BTW, the navigation day shapes would be "ball over ball by ball" indicating a vessel engaged in mineclearance operations, per Rule 27 subparagraph (f) of USCG COMDTINST M16672.2D, Navigation Rules of the Road.

Ball-Diamond-Ball indicates a vessel restricted in its ability to maneuver (other than mineclearance operations).

Matt

 

 

Such as an aircraft carrier conducting flight operations or ships conducting underway replenishment.

Lee, QM2 from the olden days.

See, without senior NCO the world would cease to function.