SMS Schleswig-Holstein

I share your pain, effendi. Whenever I see one in plastic, I grab it. So far though just the Mikasa, Suvurov; wouldn't an Agamemnon be grand! Or Texas?

We should not forget the "oldie but goldie" Heller's battleship Potemkin also. I would be happy to see USS Oregon in 1/350 scale in form of a decent new kit above any other US battleship. If we return back to subject; SMS Schleswig-Holstein is no doubt seen as historically quite significant not only by you and me but also by Jane's; it is included into their little pocket book "Battleships of World War II" even. So, a 1/350 model of her would be really fitting. However what we can get in the next few years will be another model of IJN Yamato or USS Iowa in a different fit; that's sure.

HP Models used to do (still does, perhaps?) several of the Deutschland class in WWI fit, and Schliesen in WWII fit, all in 1/700 scale.

I seem to recall that the German company Wilhelmshaven Models made a large-scale Schleswig-Holstein in paper.  And those German paper kits were/are extremely sophisticated, with literally thousands of individual parts.  Not for the faint-hearted, but capable of producing extremely impressive models.  I have the vague impression that the Wilhelmshaven kits are still available; maybe some Forum member who knows the paper modeling scene better than I do can comment more intelligently.

I was watching the first episode of "The World at War" last night and sure enough, there was Schleswig-Holstein blasting Westerplatte with her guns at lowest elevation and her trim on her port side (where the guns were trained) a bit low. Speaking of the Devil!

If you are going to go 1/700 for Schleswig-Holstein I suggest the WSW kit rather than the H-P kit as it is a more accurate rendering of the ship. Combrig of Russia is now producing very nice models of the Worth class of pre-dreadnoughts and may move into more of them as time goes by. H-P Models has produced an amazing variety of Imperial German Navy ships. However, given a choice of the same ship produced by WSW, Combrig, or NNT I would choose the other manufacturers over H-P. WS

Thanks for suggestions. Though the 1/700 German resin models are quite nice, they do not fit to my collection unfortunately. Besides I have a lot more kits in my to do list before I shall think about SMS Schleswig-Holstein and I have the hope that a 1/350 scale model of it may appear from one of the ever proliferating range of large scale models from one of these Russian companies until that time. If not though, I can try the paper model that professor Tilley suggests as a last resort.

We now consider you "our man in Kiev" so you'll have access to Zvezda stuff. They seem to be churning out ever better subjects now, not just old Novo rereleases. I've bought a couple of their little 1/72 armor models, and those compare positively with Trumpeter.

There is also the revell Emden/ Dresden in plastic

PM me please and I'll give you my email. I would really like to read your thesis. Congratulations!

I agree that a 1/350 scale kit would be extremely nice! I have given up building 1/700 as being too small for my aging eyesight. And, I agree that the historical importance of the Schleswig-Holstein is overlooked in favor of more famous but less successful German capital ships.

Bill Morrison

Hello, J .Tilley. Well, here it is the day after turkey and trimmings and I am thinking ships.I don,t know about P.M.I. out of OREGON.I used to get my papermodels from them.Presently I do have the SMS KRONPRINZE.I am using the paper model as patterns to re-create her in plastic.This particular shipmodel is from POLAND and comes in BOOK format at 1/200 scale .there are some,I know in 1/350 and others at the scale I mentioned.The SCHLESWIG-HOLSTEIN ,I believe is in this companys catalogue, I am not sure. I also don,t know what scale the model would be. I do believe that WILEMSHAVEN has her or mine in 1/350 ,I would have to check and see. My catalogue is now three years old. I had heard that PAPERMODELS INTERNATIONAL was for sale and that,s the last info I had.Someone might want to try to look them up! the last address I had was in BEAVERTON, OR.

Another possible good subject might be the SMS Goeben.  I just read a sci-fi short story about this ship and it's run for Istanbul with the cruiser Breslau about August 6, 1914, right after the start of WWI.  In the story, this ship was intercepted by a British Cruiser squadron and forced to run aground.  I looked up this ship and it really existed, and really did make the run to Istanbul.  All the other ships listed in the story were real also.  In reality, she slipped by the cruiser squadron and made it to the Ottoman Empire.  Since Turkey was supposed to be neutral at that time, Turkey agreed to make both ships part of their fleet in order to protect them from the British.  When she was transferred to Turkey, her officers and crew remained aboard.  The Goeben became the Yavuz (and the Flagship of the Fleet) and served on active duty until 1960 when she was finally decommissoned.  This made her the longest active duty Dreadnaught class ship in the world. By comparison, the New Jersey only had 21 years of active duty.  This info is per Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Goeben

 

kapudan_emir_effendi

When we think about German battleships we naturally think the last about pre-dreadnoughts of that nation. Legend of Bismarck, Scharnhorst class sisters, pocket battleships and the battlecruisers of Kaiser's High Seas fleet instantly come to the mind. However, I think that more than any of these, SMS Schleswig-Holstein of the Deutschland class was perhaps the most "succesful" or "lucky" battleship of German nation by virtue of her battle honors and service period. ...she fired the first shots of Second World War on September 1, 1939 and continued to be active right through the end of the conflict, meeting a fighting end. Her career is almost like a symbol of 20th century Germany. I'd really like to have a model of her in 1/350. Considering how low the prospect of seeing a styrene kit, I'm even ready to swallow my hatred for resin but unfortunately this workmanly old ship seems to be forgotten even by small scale producers.

Here a link for motivation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrF5D0udkJQ

bondoman

I share your pain, effendi. Whenever I see one in plastic, I grab it. So far though just the Mikasa, Suvurov; wouldn't an Agamemnon be grand! Or Texas?

 

 

 

  Didn't want to start a new thread so an update to this one seemed appropriate.

There has been a bit of interest on the Trumpeter Schleswig-Holstein what with Trumpeter releasing 2 different versions of it.

If interested take a look at this:

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=168291&p=792511#p792511

     Nino

 

 

(Zombies Live!)

Nino, thanks for giving this thread life. I am interested in a Deutschland class, and I see ICM has 4 Konig class ships as well. I believe I've seen a few dreadnoughts from Hobby Boss too.

Trumpeter models makes the Schleswig-Holstein in 1/350 injected plastic in both the 1904 and 1935 fits - the kit is readily available - in fact I'm in the process of building that kit right now - nice kit, good fit , a bit basic in detail but there is a german model site that has a large scratch-built 1/70 scale model that I've been using as a guide to detail my kit up - the link is on Modelshipwrights site - go to the shiplovers heading, then the Deutchland class heading - 

Mark

Mark,

 That 1/70 scratch-build is really something.  In my opinion the 1/70 scale model is accurate for the ship at the Start of War.  So far the WSW 1/700 resin kit seems accurate for the number of 2.0cm guns carried on Sept 1, 1939.   For those 2.0cm AA...location, location, location, is the all important factor.  I expect to add more updates on the 1939 ship for the 2.0cm gun locations shortly.

     I'm still looking for proof as to what secondary Guns were aboard in 1935. The info I have used to post over on Modelwarships is conflicting on when and how many 17.0cm vs 15.0cm guns were on board that year. To my thinking there is an "issue" caused by statements about when the last upper deck secondary guns were removed. Fortunately for those trying for a late 1939 version, it's all 15.0 cm casemates on the hull.

 

  For those planning to build the model, be careful on what photos you use as reference.  There have been incorrect ship indentification captions posted. Schleswig-Holstein and Schlesien do have several differences that seem to get missed for proper ship indentification.

 

Mark, How far along are you with your model?

 

    Nino

  

EDIT...

  The 1/70 scratch-build link mentioned previously:

http://www.der-lustige-modellbauer.com/ ... stein-1-70

 

The Modelwarships link, I mentioned:

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=168291&p=792511#p792511

I finally finished my Trumpeter Schleswig-Holstein kit - came out nice ,too! It's at AAA Hobbies in Magnolia NJ in their display case - I didn't take any pics yet as I have a new computer and I have to hook up / download the camera software - If you can take a trip over to AAA to see mine and alot of other models on display there-

Mark

Thanks Mark.  That's great that you got it displayed at AAA. I'm not so far away (Philly), so I will put it on my list of places to visit.

     Love to see your photo's of the model.  I have the kit too but waiting untill I get a few more details on the 1939 fit vs the 1935 version that Trumpeter says this model is.

Their 1908 version of Schleswig-Holstein looks beautiful.  Rumor has it that both these versions will eventually be issued as 1/700 scale, but waterline.  Looks like any Trumpeter 1/350 kit that is 1-piece full-hull will only be watlerline when issued as 1/700. Their 1/350 kits that have seperate lower hulls, when issued as 1/700, I expect they will have a lower hull.

   Nino

Danke mien heir!!  

It was nice to meet you too Nino!

I am going to try to atend the monthly meeting in Philly next month and hope to see you there

Just a quick update.

I finally got all my S-H reference material read/translated.  I hope to add a post here soon discussing the 1939 September 1st fit.

Along with that I will also mention how to make the Trumpeter "1935" kit into a better 1935 version.  You will need the forward sponsons from the 1908 version and will also need to scratch-build the torpedo launching tubes mounted at the bow.  There's a few platforms to change too along with secondary gun barrels..

A very unexpected development: Squadron had the 1908 version on sale, today 2/5/20,  for $64.49. Very rare for Squadron.

  Nino

 

 

I see there is a German Group Build underway.  With that in mind...

      Should anyone become interested in building a Schleswig-Holstein, let me know. Although I am not ready to build one myself, I have accumulated a lot of reference material and that along with the current updates posted recently on another site, (MWS), I think I can be of assistance to whomever takes this ship to task.

 

 

     For those interested we seemed to have proven the camouflage pattern depicted on the WSW model and in many published photos of the S-H,  is actually the Schlesien.

 

(Photo courtesy of WSW

 

Camo pattern was based on this Photo below.

Schlesien, NOT Schleswig-Holstein:

( "German-Battleships-of-wwii-in-action-warships-no-2" by Robert C. Stern)

 

That Trumpeter kit depicting 1935 is really a 1936 version.  Their 1908 version is good except for leaving off the stern Torpedo tube.

 

      I will be addig some updates for those looking to make a September 1st, 1939 version.

    Nino

That's one of my very favorite older threads. I'm happy to see it bumped.

 

Thanks!

Bill,

  The link over there is   http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=168291&start=40

 

Apparently we finally got a German Modeler involved.  He has access to a Vol that I could not afford, let alone translate before the November elections...lol.

  I have both the 1908 and the 1935 kits, (really 1936ish with a few errors).  I collected enough AM to make the 1935 based kit into a resonable 1939 "1st day" of WW2 version.  Between Gun barrels, platforms, and AA guns, it's plenty to keep an advanced modeler happy and me working hard to become one.

     Jim.

 

 EDIT:

 Anyone doing the 1908 version may want to add the stern Torpedo tube. It appears Trumpeter missed that.  send me a PM or email and I can supply a photo and drawing for that location.  ( Hint, its on the port side!)