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"Turn on the lights!!"

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  • Member since
    September 2009
Posted by Randy Stone on Saturday, November 28, 2009 11:50 PM

"...I personally believe that Spruance and Mitscher made a much better combo than Halsey and Mitscher..."

Given how Mitscher royally screwed the pooch numerous times at Midway(1)--right in front of Spruance aboard Enterprise--it's no surprise that Spruance kept Mitscher on a short leash at the Philippine Sea.

"...To send the planes in the first place, was the big gamble..."

Quite a few planes beyond the 216 launched were scrubbed from the mission; however, putting the Japanese carriers away was considered a fair price.  The planes could be replaced, of course (and quickly); and while crews could be replaced as well(2), Mitscher had a fondness for his men (apparently he was quite shaken by the loss of Waldron at Midway).(1)

(1) See: Cressman, et. al., A Glorious Day in Our History and Lundstrom, Black Shoe Carrier Admiral.

(2) See: Dickson, The Battle of the Philippine Sea.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, November 28, 2009 11:22 PM

Not sure what you mean by gamble? If it was a gamble that the US would be able to recover the a/c in the dark then you really can't separate the two actions, as the decision had been made more or less beforehand...citing "Clash of Carriers" it is a fact that a full day before, Mitscher's staff had discussed the possibility of a recovery after dark and what it required, namely illumination. It was also written that Mitscher was heard to say that he would never launch a strike w/o a recovery plan...In other words, it was not really a "snap" decision as many history books report... 

Had ther been any Japanese submarines in the area that were given an advantage with the illumination, Mitscher surely would have gone done in history as an incompetent had he lost any carriers in the process. And this was a real possibility, as 2 of the 4 losses of fleet carriers the US suffered in WW2 involved Japanese subs, wholly or in part...

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: I am at play in the fields of the Lord. (Texas)
Posted by m60a3 on Saturday, November 28, 2009 9:59 PM

 

 To send the planes in the first place, was the big gamble. "Turn on the lights!" was the second. Any thoughts on the first??

 

                        Jarod

"I lay like a small idea in a vacant mind" - Wm. Least Heat Moon "I am at the center of the earth." - Black Elk My FSM friends are the best.
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, November 28, 2009 1:38 PM
I have not read a detailed account of the battle in many years. But I always was under the impression that Spruance had been the one accused of overcaution in the fight. By keeping the carriers close to the Marianas and not begining pursuit of Ozawa until the second day, it was too late to inflict maximum damage. This was supposedly one of Halsey's thoughts in the upcoming Leyte Gulf battle. You are correct in numbers of recoveries (IIRC) in that they were fairly high, even if there were large losses in airframes due to ditchings from fuel starvation.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, November 28, 2009 12:26 PM
After finishing "Clash of the Carriers" yesterday I feel that the Battle of the Phillipine Sea was much more interesting from an operational standpoint than Midway. The turning on off the lights was an important decision but possibly more selfishly motivated than thought. He knew if he didn't recover his airgroups his carriers would be worthless as an effective weapon. What is interesting is that the pilots that flew the twilight mission knew full well what they were getting into and there were more volunteer aircrews than there were available planes to fly the strike. I believe 80% of those who ditched were recovered. The bigger question, IMO, was Mitscher too cautious in the battle? 
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 3:58 AM
Like Subfixer said, that was certainly the correct decision. I personally believe that Spruance and Mitscher made a much better combo than Halsey and Mitscher.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 3:15 AM

It was the correct one, I believe. Turning on the lights caused no loss in ships from enemy submarines and allowed the recovery of aircraft and aircrew that would have been lost if that order had not been given. Of course there were many crewman that were never recovered. As harsh as it sounds, the US Navy could absorb and recover from the losses sustained during the battle of the Philippine Sea. The IJN carriers never did sortie out again as a result of the battle except as bait for Halsey's Taffy 38 in the Battle off Cape Engano. There were several major Japanese carriers still in comission at the end of the war that were rendered ineffective by the loss of those IJN aircrew.

Another aspect was the amphibious landings of Saipan, Tinian and Guam went on with little or no aerial interference.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: I am at play in the fields of the Lord. (Texas)
"Turn on the lights!!"
Posted by m60a3 on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:39 AM

 

 Was the gain worth the loss, in planes and men, at that time of the war? Your thoughts, please. Mitscher. Wrong or right?

 

                                         Jarod

"I lay like a small idea in a vacant mind" - Wm. Least Heat Moon "I am at the center of the earth." - Black Elk My FSM friends are the best.
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