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Most successful Japanese carrier...

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Most successful Japanese carrier...
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 1, 2009 10:38 PM
of WW2? Opinions? Many consider the Enterprise the most successful US carrier of that conflict---which IJN carrier do you think was the most effective, and why?
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Posted by subfixer on Tuesday, December 1, 2009 10:43 PM
Zuikaku could probably qualify for that title.

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Posted by bondoman on Tuesday, December 1, 2009 11:35 PM
I don't see just one being singled out, and my vote goes for Akagi, Kaga, Hiryu and Soryu . They started the war; two at Wake; Darwin; Cornwall and Dorsetshire; Hermes. They had quite a ride until Midway.
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Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, December 2, 2009 1:11 AM
Hmmm... I would have to read a bit more on the particulars of the air groups successes, but in the long run Shokaku/Zuikaku would get my vote. 2 fleet cariers sunk (Lexington and Hornet), 2 damaged (Enterprise and Yorktown) by their air groups, not to mention their contributions to the overall rampage of the IJN across the Pacific  from Pearl harbor to Ceylon prior to Midway. Until their air wings were nearly extermintaed during the Solomons, they were the last best hope of the IJNAF.

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 2, 2009 10:03 AM
 bondoman wrote:
I don't see just one being singled out, and my vote goes for Akagi, Kaga, Hiryu and Soryu . They started the war; two at Wake; Darwin; Cornwall and Dorsetshire; Hermes. They had quite a ride until Midway.
Interesting choices.  I would discount all four, however, because they missed over three years of remaining war...
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Posted by Woxel59 on Wednesday, December 2, 2009 12:09 PM

I also agree that Zuikaku and Shokaku can be looked upon as the most
successful japanese carriers. From the larger carriers they had the longest lives,
so they could take part in many actions.
But if you only count the time until Midway, which would be a fairer comparison,
than its more difficult. Still, the sinking of Repulse and Prince of Wales should rank
Zuikaku and Shokaku a few points higher in the list than the other carriers.

Woxel 59

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Posted by David Harris on Wednesday, December 2, 2009 1:17 PM

I was under the impression that Force Z fell victim to land based bombers flown out of Saigon & not carrier based planes? Zuikaku and Shokaku would still have been on their way back from the Pearl Harbour attack when Force Z was sunk on the 10th December?

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Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, December 2, 2009 2:30 PM
Indeed. All the Japanese fleet carriers were in the middle of the Pacific when Prince of Wales and Repulse were sunk. Those two ships fell victime to land based Bettys and Nells flown from Indochina.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 2, 2009 3:15 PM
 stikpusher wrote:
Indeed. All the Japanese fleet carriers were in the middle of the Pacific when Prince of Wales and Repulse were sunk. Those two ships fell victime to land based Bettys and Nells flown from Indochina.
True, I think the Indian Ocean raid is being confused with the sinking of Force Z...
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Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, December 2, 2009 3:46 PM
Getting back to your original pont, I think while Zuikaku was luckier in having a longer wartime life span of four more months and not really being damaged until her sinking at Cape Engano during Leyte Gulf. But seeing as how her career was so entwined with Shokakus until her loss, it is really hard to seperate the two.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

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Posted by bondoman on Wednesday, December 2, 2009 4:18 PM
Just think if we had 6 CVN's running around together in a Battlegroup- the damage they could do!
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Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, December 2, 2009 5:02 PM
The closest to that would be Desert Storm and Operation Linebacker at its' peak. Although for the former there were not 6 CVNs and in the latter only 1 CVN, but most of the sister carriers packed identical air wings. In both cases serious amounts of Naval Aviation sent in to combat.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

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Posted by subfixer on Wednesday, December 2, 2009 6:37 PM

I was a perticipant in Linebacker II while onboard Ranger. At the end of January 1973 the four carriers joined together in a diamond formation with all of our escorts for a photo op. It was said that it was the first time since WWII that that many carriers were formed up together in a combat zone.

 

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Posted by Publius on Thursday, December 3, 2009 12:36 AM
Hmm, last three years of the war... what was still sea based at the end, I wonder.  A few overlooked Zeros on floats? What about the helicopter ship they had and the subs that packed aircraft? How much was left over on the sea at the end? The ocean was the carrier; what was on it? What about observation planes shipboard? Heavy cruiser USS Indianapolis had a couple of scout planes they could send out. What did the Japs have left I wonder......as Tokyo burned. Glad its over!!! Thanks, Paul

How does this work?

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 3, 2009 6:26 AM
I believe Junyo was the last IJN fleet carrier left when the war ended that was still afloat---and it was a atrue veteran, having been in action since Midway, I believe...
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 3, 2009 2:50 PM
I vote for Zuiho...
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Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, December 3, 2009 4:06 PM

Junyo was lucky to survive the war, but only participated in two carrier actions, Santa Cruz and Phillipine Sea, where she was moderately damaged. In addition to being torpedoes (but surviving) by a US sub in Nov 43. Yes she survived the war, but due to her usage and small air group, did not contribute majorly to any battle she did fight in.

Zuiho actively fought in three carrier battles where she was damaged in her first (Santa Cruz)and sunk in the last (Leyte Gulf). Again, her small air wing did not allow her to contibute decisively in battle.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

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  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Thursday, December 3, 2009 4:33 PM
You should really define success before asking the question. What was success? Participating in the most battles? Sinking the most enemy ships? Just plain ol' surviving?

Tracy White Researcher@Large

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 3, 2009 4:33 PM
 stikpusher wrote:

Junyo was lucky to survive the war, but only participated in two carrier actions, Santa Cruz and Phillipine Sea, where she was moderately damaged. In addition to being torpedoes (but surviving) by a US sub in Nov 43. Yes she survived the war, but due to her usage and small air group, did not contribute majorly to any battle she did fight in.

Zuiho actively fought in three carrier battles where she was damaged in her first (Santa Cruz)and sunk in the last (Leyte Gulf). Again, her small air wing did not allow her to contibute decisively in battle.

Actually, Junyo, was a bit more active than that (from Wikepedia):

In May 1942, she was assigned to support the invasion of the Aleutian Islands, a diversionary thrust in support of the attack on Midway. On 3 June 1942, along with Ryūjō, she launched airstrikes against Dutch Harbor on Unalaska Island. On 5 June she launched further strikes and was attacked by United States bombers but was not damaged.

Following the loss of four Japanese fleet carriers in the battle of Midway, Junyō was one of only four large carriers in the Japanese Navy (the others were Zuikaku, Shōkaku, and Hiyō ). This made Junyō an important ship, and great efforts were made to use her as a fleet carrier, even though she was slower and had a smaller air group than the purpose-built fleet carriers, Shōkaku and Zuikaku.

In late October 1942, during the Guadalcanal Campaign, Junyō took part in the Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands. On 26 October 1942 her planes attacked the carrier USS Enterprise, the battleship USS South Dakota and the light cruiser USS San Juan, scoring hits on the latter two.

In mid-November 1942, she played a covering role in the three-day-long Naval Battle of Guadalcanal. In Spring 1943, her planes were sent to Rabaul, with those of other Japanese carriers, for land-based attacks on the Allied forces gathering at Guadalcanal. In June 1943, Junyō helped protect an important convoy sent to reinforce the Japanese garrison on Kiska, in the Aleutian Islands.

In May 1944, Junyō was assigned to Operation A-Go. In the resulting Battle of the Philippine Sea on 20 June 1944 Junyō was hit by two bombs at about 17:30. Her smokestack and mast were destroyed and her deck damaged. Her air operations were stopped, but she was able to withdraw without further damage, unlike her sister ship Hiyō, sunk by torpedoes. However, most of her planes were lost in the battle.

After repairs at Kure, she was assigned to the Philippines but without planes she was unable to take part in the Battle of Leyte Gulf, being relegated to transport duties.

On 9 December 1944, Junyō was carrying 200 survivors of Musashi and was accompanied by the battleship Haruna and the destroyers Suzutsuki, Fuyutsuki, and Maki. The task force was attacked at midnight by the American submarines Sea Devil, Plaice and Redfish. Junyō was hit by three torpedoes, killing 19 men. Several compartments were flooded, giving her a 10°-12° list to starboard, but she was able to make way on one engine. Maki was also damaged by a torpedo. By 04:00 the Japanese task force entered shallow waters where the American submarines could not follow.

Junyō was drydocked at Kure, but repairs were abandoned in March 1945. The lack of materials, fuel and carrier planes meant that there was no need for fleet carriers. Junyō remained moored at Sasebo until the end of the war. She was scrapped in 1947.

Likewise, with Zuiho:

  • January, 1941: Commissioned into the Japanese fleet and assigned to Carrier Division 3 with the Hōshō
  • December, 1941: Participates in the attack on the Philippine Islands
  • January, 1942: Supported invasion of the Dutch East Indies
  • June, 1942: Battle of Midway. Led the Support Fleet and did not engage American carriers directly. Her aircraft complement consisted of 16 Mitsubishi A6M "Zero" fighters and 14 Aichi D3A "Val" dive bombers. [1]
  • October, 1942: Assigned to First Carrier Division (with Shōkaku and Zuikaku) during the Battle of Santa Cruz. A bomber from the Enterprise disables the Flight deck of the Zuihō.
  • January-February, 1943: Aids in evacuation of Guadalcanal along with Carriers Junyō and Zuikaku
  • 19 June 1944: Participates in the Battle of the Philippine Sea.
  • 24 October 1944: Participates in Battle of Leyte Gulf along with the Carriers Chiyoda, Chitose and Zuikaku. During the Battle off Cape Engaño, hits are scored on Zuihō's flight deck during an attack by a wave of American bombers. After repairing this damage, three more strike waves arrived to finally sink Zuihō. Carrying very few aircraft, she was sacrificed as a "decoy", to draw the American carrier fleet away from the Japanese main battleship fleet.
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    Posted by Konigwolf13 on Friday, December 4, 2009 10:26 PM

    What about the mighty Shinano? Didn't she terrorize Allied fleets the world over for about 5 minutes?

     

    Andrew

     

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    Posted by Konigwolf13 on Friday, December 4, 2009 10:27 PM

    What about the mighty ? Didn't she terrorize Allied fleets the world over for about 5 minutes?

     

    Andrew

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    Most successful Japanese carrier...
    Posted by seasick on Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:35 AM

    The best designed and built were Shokaku and Zuikaku. Good designs: Taiho, and Hiryu. Soryu was used effectivly but was very suceptable to damage, as was proven at the battle of Midway. 

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