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Lindberg's "Coast Guard" tug - what is it really

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  • Member since
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Lindberg's "Coast Guard" tug - what is it really
Posted by woodburner on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:16 PM

The holidays brought a Lindberg tugboat kit, labeled as a "Coast Guard" tug.   After looking through this site as well as a few tugboat sites, none of the old tug photos show anything like this at all.   Plenty of similar details but not the same proportions.     

Does anyone know the back story on this kit, and is there a prototype?   There is a strange feeling that it could be imaginary.  

 

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Posted by tankerbuilder on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 2:00 PM

Hi- woodburner; In answer to your question about the LINDBERG tug(ie.THE COAST GUARD TUG) it is a representation of the smaller wood tugs built in the forties and fifties to work in turning basins etc.The tugs of this type were seen mostly in ports where things were tight and a regular shiphandling tug would be to big.The large number of them precludes any specific description of one. They SELDOM if ever went out to sea(they were to small for this duty).Many ,when withdrawn from service were converted to floating homes(the CALIFORNIA,SAN FRANCISCO DELTA has a few) The boats were sturdy and built well.I even know of one that was turned into a floating artist,s studio. Build her after a general sanding to knock down the sheer size of the molded planking as in the kit and don,t be afraid of critics. There were probably over five thousand of them built and seen on both coasts. Good luck.   tankerbuilder

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  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 2:02 PM

To begin with, it isn't a Coast Guard vessel.  The USCG has operated quite a number of tugs over the decades, but none of them have resembled this one.  It was originally issued back in the fifties, simply as a "tugbboat"; the CG decals came much later.  I think its original incarnation included an electric motor.  It sticks in my mind that, in at least one of its appearances, it had the name "Carol Anne" on the box.  That, however, may be a figment of my Halfzeimer's-afflicted memory.  (My wife asserts that, though I don't have Alzheimer's Disease, I do have Halfzeimer's - and she has the other half.)

I'm not aware of where, if anywhere, Lindberg got the plans for it.  It's not a bad representation of a typical wood tug of, say, the 1920s through the 1950s - bearing in mind the state of the art as it existed in the fifties.

That's about all I can offer; sorry.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

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Posted by tankerbuilder on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 2:10 PM

Hey-PROFF how are you? I am glad you piped in here. I do know that you have a library of info, or you got a heck of a memory.    tankerbuilder

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  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 2:20 PM

It would take me a month to go through all my model railroad related magazines to find the specific article, but I do remember that it was on railroad tugs. These were designed and used to move car floats/car barges. The article had an HO scale drawing of ...(I believe it was an Erie RR tug, but I'm probably wrong.....yeah, halfziemer's)... a railroad tug. The lines almost exactly matched the hull of the Lindberg model I have. I tore the thing apart, and am in the process of modifying the superstructure to more close replicate a "railroad tug".

The railings in the kit are......for want of a better description, rather large diameter.... "doze" guys must have had huge hands!!!

Lead me not into temptation ..................I can find it myself

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  • From: West Virginia, USA
Posted by mfsob on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 8:53 PM

It's a Lindbergh kit - when was the last time they got bogged down in specifics?

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Posted by ddp59 on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:01 PM
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  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:29 AM

Many thanks to ddp59 for the link to that most interesting list.  It's quite a mind-boggling document; I hadn't realized that Lindberg had released so many ship kits over the years.

There are two tugs on the list.  The one listed simply as "Tug Boat" is the one we've been talking about on this thread; the author of the list comments only that he doesn't know much about it, and that it appears not to be identical to the one labeled "Diesel Tug."  He's right.  They're two completely different kits.

The one called "Diesel Tug" is in fact, as the list suggests, a reboxing of an old Pyro kit.  Back in the early fifties Pyro was one of several manufacturers who were just getting started in the brand new medium of styrene plastic.  A number of Pyro's first ship kits were in fact based (to use the most polite term I can think of) on solid-hull wood kits from other companies.  The fishing schooner Gertrude L. Thebaud was based on a kit from a now-long-defunct firm called Marine Models, and several Pyro ships were based on the plans and parts of Model Shipways kits.  (Thirty years later the two gentlemen who founded Model Shipways were still mad about the episode; they referred to Pyro as "Pirate Plastics.")  I probably can't name all the "pirated Pyro" kits, but they included the revenue cutters Harriet Lane and Roger B. Taney, the fishing trawler Hildina, and the diesel tug Dispatch No. 9.  The Model Shipways gents - who had only started their company a few years earlier - were extremely depressed by the experience; they were convinced for a while that the plastic competition was going to drive them out of business, and they couldn't afford the legal fees that would have been entailed in making Pyro cease and desist.

Fortunately MS survived until the two gentlemen in question, John Shedd and Sam Milone (I hope I've spelled them right), retired and sold the business to Model Expo - which still sells the Model Shipways line.  And Pyro eventually went out of business; many (by no means all) of its kits reappeared under the "Life Like" label, and eventually under that of Lindberg.  One small irony:  Model Expo is now selling Lindberg kits - including the diesel tug - alongside revised Model Shipways ones.  Take a look at this:  http://www.modelexpo-online.com/product.asp?ITEMNO=MS2011 and this:  http://www.modelexpo-online.com/product.asp?ITEMNO=LB77221 .

But, as the author of the list pointed out, neither of these is the same kit as the one Woodburner is talking about.  That one is a model of a steam-powered, wood-hulled tug.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

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Posted by woodburner on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:03 PM

Checked out the Erie boats, but so far no matches.  

Lindberg boats are interesting, with some based on real things, others entirely fictional, intended from the start as a operating toy model.  

The Diesel tug is real thing, a former army tug sold to Standard Oil after the war.  It apparently worked around Stockton.  

A turning basin or log boat would be a practical configuration, thanks tankerbuilder.  

 

 

 

 

 

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  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:29 PM

I'm pretty sure the two tug kits have completely different origins:  the diesel one from Pyro (or Model Shipways), the wood steam-powered one from Lindberg.  I think the Pyro one is a little older, but both originated in the early or mid-fifties.  Lindberg was cranking out a considerable line of ship kits at that time - civilian and naval, on a wide variety of scales.  They show their age nowadays, of course, but by the standards of the time they were pretty competitive with other plastic kit companies' ship kits. 

The silly, slightly deceptive labels that we've been referring to got started fairly early in the kits' long careers.  Pyro itself was selling the Gertrude L. Thebaud as an "American Cup Racer"  back in the fifties.  (Note the careful use of "American Cup" rather than "America's Cup."  I don't think we were supposed to make the distinction.  An America's Cup contender with stacks of fishing dories on her deck.  Yeah, right.)  And Pyro called the Harriet Lane a "Civil War Blockade Runner," and the Roger B. Taney an "Independence War Schooner" for a while.  The labeling of the Lindberg Wappen von Hamburg and La Flore, and the Pyro St. Louis and Sovereign of the Seas as "pirate ships," on the other hand, seems to have been Lindberg's idea - and the new ownership of the company seems to be continuing the scam.  I think the Coast Guard decals for the wood-hulled tugboat are a relatively recent innovation - with no connection to reality.

I remember - very vaguely - the "On the Waterfront" TV series.  It's possible that I'm remembering a tie-in with one or more model companies' products.  My memory is continuing to recall the name "Carol Anne" (or maybe "Carol Ann"), rather than "Cheryl Ann," but that could well be Halfzeimer's talking again.

So many wood-hulled tugboats were built during the golden age of steam navigation that the modeler can quite legitimately have a ball freelancing to his heart's content.  As a matter of fact I have such a tug on my workbench at the moment.  It's based on the Model Shipways Taurus kit (the company acknowledges that the name is fictitious), and it's going to be named after my wife.

I can recommend two books for those interesting in things tug-related:  On the Hawser:  A Tugboat Album, by Steven Lang and Peter H. Specter, and Tugboats of New York, by George Matteson.  Both contain lots of photos that will be of use for modeling purposes.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

Uhu
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Posted by Uhu on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 3:03 PM

Jim, I think your intuition is right.  The proportions are off and I dont think that kit is a model of any particular boat.   The closest prototype boats I have seen are West Coast harbor tugs, about 1910-1920.    It won't do as a railroad tug,  as those boats have proportionately longer, e.g. less rounded, hulls.   

There are also problems with the details -- tow mechanism on the afterdeck doesn't look like any steam winch I've ever seen, not sure where they got the design for it, but I think its a fabrication.    Also the pilot house windows do not wrap around to the sides and restrict the helmsman to a straight ahead view.   Very unprototypical for a tug.   

All that said, it is a "cute" model.   

Dave

 

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Posted by woodburner on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 5:14 PM

This is all making sense now.  

The kit includes parts for a battery box, and a brace to guide the propellor shaft.  That make it completely fictional and the winch looks like the kind of cartoon winch.     

 

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Posted by woodburner on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 5:55 PM

Eureka!  

Here are a few Puget Sound boats that are pretty close - enough to serve as a guide.  Neat little things.

http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/imlsmaritime&CISOPTR=487&CISOBOX=1&REC=20

http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/imlsmaritime&CISOPTR=395&CISOBOX=1&REC=2

http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/imlsmaritime&CISOPTR=537&CISOBOX=1&REC=1

 

 

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  • From: Derry, New Hampshire, USA
Posted by rcboater on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 6:51 PM

JTilley wrote:

"And Pyro called the Harriet Lane a "Civil War Blockade Runner," and the Roger B. Taney an "Independence War Schooner" for a while.  "

In both of these cases,  it wasn't fantasy-- the names are plausible.   Harriet Lane was captured by the Confederates and used as a Blockade Runner.   And the topsail schooner does look like a vessel from the 1830-1840s-- the time of the Texas War of Independence.

 

Webmaster, Marine Modelers Club of New England

www.marinemodelers.org

 

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  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:26 PM

rcboater

JTilley wrote:

"And Pyro called the Harriet Lane a "Civil War Blockade Runner," and the Roger B. Taney an "Independence War Schooner" for a while.  "

In both of these cases,  it wasn't fantasy-- the names are plausible.   Harriet Lane was captured by the Confederates and used as a Blockade Runner.   And the topsail schooner does look like a vessel from the 1830-1840s-- the time of the Texas War of Independence.

 

Fair enough; my point was that these "new" names weren't Lindberg's inventions, but Pyro's.

The story of the Roger B. Taney kit is actually a little more complicated.  Model Shipways introduced its kit sometime in the late 1940s, with that name.  The Taney is generally referred to as a member of the Morris class of revenue cutters, which dated from around 1845.  Howard I. Chapelle published a set of plans for the class in his book, The History of American Sailing Ships, which was first published in the thirties; the MS plans apparently were based on those drawings.  (Chapelle was a good friend of Model Shipways.  He provided the plans that were included in the original version of the MS Sultana kit.) 

Unfortunately for MS's marketing, Chapelle was the type of researcher who never stopped digging.  A few years later he found, among the Coast Guard records in the National Archives (the records of the old Revenue Cutter Service were - and still are - notoriously sloppily organized) another contemporary drawing that had the name Roger B. Taney on it.  He published a redrawn version of that drawing in his next major book, The History of the American Sailing Navy (1949).  It makes it clear that, though the Taney was quite similar to the generic Morris-class plan on which Chapelle had based his original drawing (and MS had based its kit), she differed in some fairly conspicuous respects.  (I'd have to dig out the book to comment in detail, but as I remember the Taney's bow structure, for instance, was more elaborate.)  The MS and Pyro/Lindberg kits probably come closer to representing the Morris or the Alexander Hamilton - or perhaps some other member of the class.  Unfortunately the documentation on those early revenue cutters is pretty lousy - and the contemporary pictorial evidence about their appearance is worse.

The most up-to-date tabular listing of them, Paul Silverstone's The Sailing Navy, 1774-1854, describes this batch of revenue cutters as the "Morris-Taney class."  The listing includes thirteen vessels.  Silverstone (who, I think, got his data from the Coast Guard Historian's Office) lists the basic dimensions of six of them; they're all different by a few feet (though all have the same registered tonnage:  112).  One of them, the Ingham, did serve briefly in the Texas War for Independence.  She was sold by the USRC in January, 1846, and purchased by the "Texas Navy," which named her Independence.  Three months later she got captured by the Mexicans and renamed Independencia.  So I guess it could be said that the Pyro/Lindberg kit is a model of that ship - though I must say that seems like a rather strange subject for a modeler to pick.

The last time the IPMS Nationals were held in Virginia Beach, I got a look at a mixed-media Morris-class revenue cutter kit from a company called, aptly enough, Cottage Industry Models.  The kit - which had a cast resin hull, wood spars, and cast metal and resin fittings, impressed me; I wish I'd been able to afford it.  Here's a link:   http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=CI96003 .   

The old Pyro/Lindberg kit, though, is capable of providing the basis for a good serious scale model as well.  Just watch out for the raised lines representing the edges of the closed gunport lids (the lines on the insides and outsides of the bulwarks don't match), the small boat (whose thwarts don't reach the gunwales), and a few other 1950s-ish characteristics.

For some reason or other the big model companies seem to assume that models of vessels of the Coast Guard and its predecessor organizations just don't sell.  (The plastic kits representing Coast Guard, Revenue Cutter Service, Life-Saving Service, and Lighthouse Board vessels can be counted on your fingers and toes, with a few toes left over.)  In putting Coast Guard markings on that little tug, Lindberg may have done something unique:  trying to enhance sales by claiming that a non-Coast Guard vessel was one. 

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

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  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Thursday, December 31, 2009 12:37 PM

woodburner

Eureka!  

Here are a few Puget Sound boats that are pretty close - enough to serve as a guide.  Neat little things.

http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/imlsmaritime&CISOPTR=487&CISOBOX=1&REC=20

http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/imlsmaritime&CISOPTR=395&CISOBOX=1&REC=2

http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/imlsmaritime&CISOPTR=537&CISOBOX=1&REC=1

Great photos!

These two are of a freelance conversion I did to a Revell Harbor Tug kit, and I'm happy to see there are similarities to a prototype.

 

 

Lead me not into temptation ..................I can find it myself

Uhu
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Posted by Uhu on Thursday, December 31, 2009 1:25 PM

I like your conversion.  Would you tell us how you made the railing stanchions?

Dave

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  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Friday, January 1, 2010 12:35 PM

The stanchions, and top rail are 0.015" brass wire. the top ends of the stanchions are flattened, filed to the width of the wire, heated to soften, and then, after installing on the deck, bent around the top rail. When all the stanchions are in place, the top rail is soldered at each stanchion.

The middle rail, is 0.010" brass wire, formed to the same shape as the top rail, and soldered to the stanchions at the proper height. I use small metal spring clamps as heat sinks when soldering to brass that's mounted in a plastic deck, and also to hold the loose rail in place.  Liquid flux helps transfer heat to the joint quickly, so there isn't much heat that gets to the plastic.

Lead me not into temptation ..................I can find it myself

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Posted by tankerbuilder on Friday, January 1, 2010 5:37 PM

 I have a surprise for youall, the winch is RIGHT.Just not in that application!! The winch in question was originally used as a net and line winch on trawlers BEFORE the application of steam and later hydraulic or electric power. I had a relative whose first fishing boat was over 40 years old at the time.That was back in the late forties early fifties.It ACTUALLY had a reduction geared ratcheting system to make it work.It does NOT and NEVER DID find use on any boat that could be considered a tug!!! Although she,s short as tugs go, again I re-iterate ,there were steam AND early diesel tugs that were small.You don,t need a big tug in a maximum 1000 x1000 foot turning basin!!! I do agree about the wheelhouse windows though.I have never seen a tug that DIDN,T have wrap around(curved or straight)windows in the wheelhouse!!! That is a giveaway to artistic license.The DESPATCH #9 was a U.S.ARMY ? tug and led a long and busy life as tugs go.The  Southern Belle on the other hand is a good although shortened version of the early push boats on AMERICA,S rivers .The model should actually be about 3 inches longer ,and that in the deck area! There are pictures in a book on the CALIFORNIA DELTA,S early years.Ilived in that area and yes it,s weird seeing a containership inland surrounded by farmland! But that,s the port of STOCKTON!!!   tankerbuilder

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  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Sunday, January 3, 2010 1:13 PM

Ok, I've searched every corner, and I can't find that RR tug article. Either I accidentally threw it out, or I saw it somewhere else. In any case, I do not, or no longer, have it..............kind of like big parts of my memory.

Lead me not into temptation ..................I can find it myself

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  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, April 6, 2010 10:54 PM

A few minutes ago I was surfing around at a website devoted to old kits (plastic, wood, and other).  I'll never be able to afford this guy's prices, but it's a fun site for nostalgia trips.  And lo and behold, it establishes that my poor old memory's recollection of the name "Carol Anne," as applied to that old Lindberg tugboat, was right:  http://www.oldmodelkits.com/index.php?detail=13032&page=76 .

The behavior of a Halfzeimer's-afflicted mind is indeed mysterious.  Now if I could just remember the names of my current students....

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

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  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Wednesday, April 7, 2010 12:57 PM

OK, I was confused, I remember watching the program...........The TV show was "Waterfront". It was filmed in L.A. Harbor, and ran from 1954 thru 1956, and the role of Captain Herrick, of the Cheryl ann, was played by Preston Foster.

I was under the impression that the Revell "Harbor Tug" kit was a close representation of the Cheryl Ann.

The first time I saw (and built) the Lindberg kit "Coast Guard Tug", was 1972. I'm currently "rebuilding/bashing" that kit as the 84' steam tug, "Ponquogue"(freelance)  in 1/87 scale using the tugs "Elf", and "Olympian", as references for details. The major changes so far have been lowering the height, and extending the length, of the main deck cabin/superstructure, and lowering the height of, and adding four windows on the sides, and two windows aft, on the pilot house, Removing the "annoyingly strange" winch, and building a smaller diameter stack.

Lead me not into temptation ..................I can find it myself

Uhu
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Posted by Uhu on Thursday, April 8, 2010 8:30 AM

Walther's excellent 1/87 waterline Railroad Tug is back in stock.   At $50 on sale its not cheap but well worth it, as its the only accurate RR tug kit on the market.      I believe the prototype design is circa 1945-1950

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3153

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Posted by Ponapeman on Thursday, April 15, 2010 12:48 AM

The RR tug & barge article was in Rail Road Model Craftsman a Carstens Publication. Can't remember month or year but probably the past 5 years or so

Tags: Tug
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  • From: San Francisco, CA
Posted by telsono on Friday, April 16, 2010 1:30 PM

Woodburner - in your reference to the Port of Stockton, and this would also be the same for the Port  of West Sacramento. My job as a quarantine officer for the US Dept. of Agriculture involved the bording of vessels on direct arrivals. That job is now handled by Customs and Border Protection after they absorbed 90% of our staff. Anyway, those aren't containerships going there, primarily they are bulk carriers for grains. Corn and wheat primarily in Stockton and Rice in West Sacramento. Benicia will be for car carriers and in Crockett you will see sea going tugs mated to a barg bringing sugar from Hawaii.

Mike T.

Beware the hobby that eats.  - Ben Franklin

Do not fear mistakes. You will know failure. Continue to reach out. - Ben Franklin

The U.S. Constitution  doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. - Ben Franklin

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 16, 2010 2:05 PM

I think it is from the same mold as their last Japanese submarine release...

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  • From: Carmichael, CA
Posted by Carmike on Wednesday, April 21, 2010 6:25 PM

Folks:

Just to muddy the waters a bit more, I was glancing through Vol 22, No. 4 of Scale Ship Modeler (Oct/Nov, 1999) which has an article on the "Foss Cup Tugboat Regatta" in Bellvue, Washington.  On page 28, there is a picture of a model tugboat which is very close to the Lindberg kit but just different enough to make me think that it is not a kitbased version (the fittings on the roof of the wheelhouse, the main mast, and the position of the ladders from the main deck are different and the model in SSM has a mast aft of the stack which the kit does not).  Otherwise it's the same:  the big wheelhouse with no visibility to the side and the winch aft of the deckhouse.

The caption states: "One of the outstanding tug entries was this highly-detailed replica of the 'Miss Q,' owned by modeler Jack Shelter."

So there might have been a prototype for this kit, if not a Coast Guard vessel, in service somewhere in the Puget Sound area.

 

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  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Friday, April 23, 2010 12:23 PM

This is the beginning of the rebuild of the Lindberg CG tug into a steam tug. I'll post a more recent shot later.

this is the port side at this time.

3/4 port bow

this shot shows the extended deck house, and the boats on deck. Also, the window in the back of the pilot house. There's one on the starboard side too.

Here, the comparison between the modified Revell harbor tug, and the modified Lindberg

 

Lead me not into temptation ..................I can find it myself

  • Member since
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  • From: Derry, New Hampshire, USA
Posted by rcboater on Sunday, May 9, 2010 7:53 PM

I'd be careful about taking the existence of an RC model as any sort of proof. 

I'm an avid RC scale modeler, have been a member of a couple of RC clubs-- in fact I used to be a member of the Seattle club that hosts the Tug Regatta you mention.  

My experience is that many RC boaters tend to be craftsmen first, and scale modelers second.  I have seen a lot of fabulous tug models that are not scale models-- they are based on the builder's imagination and maybe a picture of a real tug.    One fellow I used to know built a terrific looking model of a WW1-era admiralty class tug-- with all sorts of detail and clever engineering.  But he liked wood hulls,  so his "model" of a steel-hulled tug had this fabulous mahogany planked hull in a natural wood finish.  

 

Webmaster, Marine Modelers Club of New England

www.marinemodelers.org

 

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Posted by James Taylor on Saturday, July 11, 2020 6:31 AM

Having served 8 years in the US Coast Guard and on the USCG cutter Mohican (a 110' Harbor Tug), I believe this model is a very good representation of that tug.  It may not have all of the details, but it is close.

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