1/720 Graf Zeppelin - need a fleet of aircraft

Try Skywave/Pitroads luftwaffe sets 1 and 2 for your aircraft needs they are 1/700 scale but are slightly smaller but not to noticeable. Set 1 has BF-109E's which could stand in very well for the BF-109T's (which are modified BF-109E's anyways) and JU-87D/G Stuka's along with some FW-190A's. I also am planning the exact same project as well got replacement 10.5cm AA guns replacement 2cm Flakvierling 38's and 3.7cm Flak zweilings. I even got hold of a GMM 1/700 scale PE set that included a PE replacement catapult for the Bismark/Tirpitz so that I can build a decent set of flightdeck catapults for the Graf Zeppelin. Don't forget to invest in a set of 1/700 scale Eduard Kriegsmarine figures which come pre colored.

awesome, thanks for the direction - for the GMM PE Bismark/Tirpitz catapults are you going to use them for the front of the carrier?  I figure since the carrier never went in to full production / use, I could really use my imagination with a few things.  Is that set still available?  What are you doing to replace the big deck guns (or are you?)  and the port/starbird guns?  I did pick up a ncie set of pre painted PE 1/700 figures for the deck, they should look great. 

I think it still is in production. Yep I'm going to use the Tirpitz/Bismark catapults for the front of the shipsince they look the part and once folded are sort of a box shape and they do come with those nice launch dollies for launching the aircraft. The big deck guns are the 10.5cm AA guns and I am replacing those and leaving the 15cm main guns alone.

good idea, mind if I steal your idea?  I am trying to do it as a "altered reality" ship as if Hitler had more of an appreciation for the German Navy.  Biggest part is trying to thin down all of the thick plastic parts, and replace them where I can (like all of the supports under the flight deck tubs, and on the side of the ship).  Love to see some pictures if you have them

The Graf Zepplin was never completed, obviously. I would expect several changes over the model straight from the box. The clumsey catipults go first. Whoever designed the kit made a terrible mistake with the castemate 15cm guns which have a gap in them. ew....

WSW makes all the KM flak guns in resin IIRC.

NAZI planning for WW2 never foresaw that France would collapse like it did. They didn't expect the war in the west to continue for longer than a few months. Britain and France would come to terms quickly and leave Germany and Italy be as the Axis invaded the Soviet Union. Germany didn't expect that japan would go to war against the USA until late 1942.

that will be part of the premise for my ship, as if America was still holding neutrality, and the Nazis where going ahead with its operation to invade GB.  Nazis would have put a few more of their cancelled carriers out along with the GZ.  Lots of part removal and photo etch, and hopefully it will be a decent looking model

BTW the Toms model works set for the Graf Zeppelin has the bracing for the fore and aft section of the flight deck in Photoetch. so you don't have to mess around with thinning the kit parts.

I did get the Toms Model Works photo etch set, and I was glad to see the PE bracing.  I was hoping for some of the antennas and detail for the island, but I will have to use my imagination there.  I found a good replacement for the 15 cm main guns (styrene tube with a smaller tube inside - once you cut out the groove for the barrel, it will replicate the interior perfectly - hypodermic needle for the gun).  I have seen two variations, one with two guns, and the other with only one.  Any idea which is correct?  For the flight deck, I have seen exposed wood, and ship grey, any idea what the real carrier had?  I was thinking with Germany's technology and knack for improving designs that there would be a metal / composite deck with an anti-skid surface (like modern LST ships).  Any idea how to replicate this?  I wanted to stipple the deck for texture, but dont want to overdo it or make it out of scale.  Thanks much!

The zeppelins 15cm guns were 2 gun turrets 8 turrets 2 guns each for a total of 16 guns. Now the flightdeck is your choice but the deck would have probably been some sort of wood maybe pine so Tamiya's deck tan would probably work but that would have been early war 1939-1941. check photos of other german ships to see what color their decks were and go with that as Kriegsmarine color doctrines were standardized much like USN color doctrines.

I've got that kit too, I don't find it toylike compared to some of the other old Revell 1/720 kits! (Prinz Eugen, USS Alabama...)

I'm sort of planning to do a camoflage paint job on the flight deck a la the way the Japanese did later in the war. Maybe some sort of shades of gray splinter with a wave/wellenmunster pattern over it.

excellent idea, it would make for a striking look, especially with the huge bulges at the waterline.  I should probably not say it is toy-like, it is more like a very simple example of what the carrier would be like (along with extremely thick detail). 

Looks like a lot of us have the same idea I have two of these kits, for the same thing, a what-if German naval aviation build.  Mine will include aircraft models, though, too, and maybe some figures.

As to the kit, I think its worst feature is the portholes.  They seem way out of scale to me.  I'm really thinking of filling them and drilling new, smaller holes.

And I have to add--the hardest part is coming up with a historically accurate and plausible backstory to explain one or two operational German aircraft carriers in 1939 or 1940.

Ok, just received my GMM Tirpitz/Bismark PE.  Really nice stuff, excellent detail and explanation on where it goes on the different variations.  Best part is I can put it anywhere I want on the GZ (excellent idea for the catapault).  That last post about the windows being out of scale got me thinking about doing the same...I already drilled them out, so I will probably put rods in them and re-drill (that is a lot of work, but would probably make it look more accurate).  Of course going through the kit you dont realize how much scratchbuilding you will have to do until you are into it, and I see a lot of scratchbuilding in my future...and Murphys law, Trumpeter will probably come out with a sweet 1/350 version as soon as I finish!

I don't have the kit in front of me, and it's been a while since I'd looked at it, but if I remember correct, the hull is cast as a full hull, too, and in left and right halves, isn't it?  I remember thinking at the time that I'll have to cut the lower hull away, because I'll finish her as a waterline model.

I've got two of them, too.  My collection eventually will include the Graf Zeppelin and her sister, on the counterfactual that the Germans had both of them operational by the war's outbreak.  I might even give the Graf some wartime refit modifications, too, but I haven't decided.

I agree with you, there's a lot of modifying you can do on this kit, whether to finish her "as is" or to modify her in a "what-if" build.

Ha ha, once again, I've had an afterthought, as I was navigating away from your thread.

For casting more aircraft, have you tried casting them with a resin that cures clear?  When Trumpeter introduced their clear aircraft sets, I was very pleased, having had nothing but solid gray aircraft all those years.  I was never happy painting canopies gray or silver, and using a piece of clear sprue to replace the solid canopies works, but it is perhaps the fiddliest of all fiddly things we do in our hobby.

There are clear casting resins available (eg, MicroMark), but I haven't yet tried even resin casting, period, let alone casting aircraft in clear.  It occurred to me to ask if you've thought of it or tried it.

Regards,

Brad

Irish3335

Ok, just received my GMM Tirpitz/Bismark PE.  Really nice stuff, excellent detail and explanation on where it goes on the different variations.  Best part is I can put it anywhere I want on the GZ (excellent idea for the catapault).  That last post about the windows being out of scale got me thinking about doing the same...I already drilled them out, so I will probably put rods in them and re-drill (that is a lot of work, but would probably make it look more accurate).  Of course going through the kit you dont realize how much scratchbuilding you will have to do until you are into it, and I see a lot of scratchbuilding in my future...and Murphys law, Trumpeter will probably come out with a sweet 1/350 version as soon as I finish!

I hope Trumpeter puts out a GZ as well would be nice to see a 1/350 scale BF-109 and JU-87.

Hi Brad,

I wish I had cast them clear, would make them that much more detailed when I put them on the deck.  The Stukas are SUPER thick and overly heavy on detail, I have had to sand down half the wing to get the right thickness and angle.  I have some photos of my GZ, just have to figure out how to post them.  More to come

Ok, have some good side profile pic's, but can't figure out how to post them - any suggestions?  Thanks all

Irish3335

Hi Brad,

I wish I had cast them clear, would make them that much more detailed when I put them on the deck.  The Stukas are SUPER thick and overly heavy on detail, I have had to sand down half the wing to get the right thickness and angle.  I have some photos of my GZ, just have to figure out how to post them.  More to come

 

 

You should have gone with the Skywave/Pitroad Luftwaffe series like I suggested. Both sets are pretty nice wirh crisper molding and are actually the correct thickness. Set 2 which I also have was a special version of set 2 which is molded in clear plastic with a white metal Fiseler Storch. If you didn't put the kit planes chuck them and get the Skywave/Pitroad kits you'll be glad you did and you'll have more of a airwing if you do.

here is the link for set 1

http://www.hlj.com/product/PITS-17

Ok, pulled the pin and bought two sets (2,600 yen - about $28 bucks + shipping).  If it saves me time in sanding and cleanup, THANK YOU! 

Irish3335

Ok, have some good side profile pic's, but can't figure out how to post them - any suggestions?  Thanks all

First, you need to have a site to host (ie, store) your pictures where they can be accessed elsewhere in the Internet.  I use Photobucket, for example (www.photobucket.com); Fotki is another photo hosting site, and I'm sure some of the other guys will have good suggestions, too.  Most of them cost nothing to sign up, too.  Photobucket is free, though once you've stored enough files over a certain cache size, they'll nudge you into an account with a fee.  Still, even then, it's a modest charge for storing the files.

Once you've gotten yourself a file host, you can upload the files to that site, and the site will provide you with the tags and the URL of any specific picture you've loaded, that you can then include in posts here or at other forums or on other web pages.

There may be a tutorial here at FSM, too, on the process; most forums I belong to have the question in one form or another in their FAQs.  If I can find it, I'll the link back here for you.

Regards,

Brad

awesome, thanks for the info Brad.  Ok, I will post some pictures, anyone else out there have some pictures of their ships to post?  I would love to see some different versions of the GZ (and get some ideas!)

ok latest update:  just bought turned brass guns for the deck 10.5's (12 bucks, free shipping, thanks ebay).  I just scratch-built the lower screw assembly/supports because like the whole kit, the provided ones were thick and inaccurate.  When I went to look at the screws, I realized that I was missing one (either the carpet ate it, or I lost it while taking it with me on a business trip - lots of hotel cleanup done there).  Anyone know where I can get some brass replacements?  I would hate to have to sacrafice another kit or make one in resin.  Thanks for all the help!

I'm thinking of a couple of catalog places that might have something like that.  I think MicroMark might have some ship parts, but I'm not sure.  You could check their website.

I get another hardcopy catalog every couple of months, that is heavy on model ship kits and parts, but I can't remember the name of it.  I'm pretty sure that they've got parts like that in their catalog.  They have wooden ship kits, and lots of brass fixtures, for guys who build those kits.  They also have much of Lindberg's catalog in theirs, too, for some reason.  I can check and see if I still have the catalog, and I'll post the name back here.  But you might try Googling it, in the meantime, you'll probably find it, before I can check

Just recieved the kits from Hobby Link Japan, and they are awesome!  Nice crisp molding, excellent detail and the best part, not much cleanup.  I wish they had provided more of the Junkers and 109's but I think making a few resin copies will fix that.  I hope to populate the deck with aircraft, which would really make it pop. 

For anyone else doing this ship, I came across a really cheap method for doing the flight deck.  I was in a model railroad store when I saw some paper kits for making derilict barns.  They come in different railroad scales (HO, N, O) but of course can be scaled to fit 1/700, 1/350.  I found a faded blue that looked perfect for a flight deck (N scale).  The boards were the right spacing and size, the color blue was about right for a faded navy color, and best of all, it was pre weathered.  I cut out some sections and glued them to the back of the flight deck.  They stuck really well with household glue (the clear stuff you get at Home Depot) and a slight sanding to give it a surface to stick to.  I also painted a section of it to see how it took paint, and it blended in perfectly.  Lastly, I practiced masking it with Tamiya yellow tape to see how it would take being masked for deck lines.  It didn't faze it one bit, and the paint blended perfectly with the surface detail (have to go really light on it though, too much and it may bleed through the paper, or not look right as it stands on top of the print).  Any good railroad shop should have them, they even had several colors to choose from, so you could easily do a pre-war Lexington.

ok, I finally started taking some pictures - here is my Graf Zeppelin with the port holes drilled out, and new styrene along the side walkways.  http://s981.photobucket.com/albums/ae298/jbc3335/?action=view&current=GrafZeppelin002.jpg

Looks good!  I'm going to follow your Photobucket gallery to see your updates