Revell C-3 Hawaiian Pilot transport conversion

http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/06/0610.htm

Hi onyxman,

That's a very well made scale model. I think I'd like to do this version since it look good and comparatively simple to do. When did it served and where

I would like to say thanks for all those who had given me all these helpful information.

Regards

Zaf.

Zaf,

I did a conversion of the HP a few years ago, to a Navy cargo ship USS ALDEBARAN.  You can see some photos here.  /forums/p/80693/788942.aspx#788942.  Not a transport, but was a lot of fun to do.

Just a few things to add to all of the above:

The Victory class is properly designated VC-2, not to be confused with C-2.    C-1, C-2, and C-3 were pre-war designs.  The numeral indicates size, not a development timeline.   VC-2, as somebody pointed out, came into service quite late in the war.    They were supposed to replace the slower Liberty design. ( EC-2)

If you want to use a Montrose kit as a base, you are talking about a VC-2 Victory.

If you have a Hawaiian Pilot, it'll be a C-3.

You can use the Revell Hospital ship kits to do a C-4 variation, which were made into all sorts of cargo ships, but were mainly troop transports in the war.  These hulls were operating into the early '80s as container ships.

Fred

SS Sea Scamp

I think that with the addition of those rafts, and some guns fore and aft, you'd be in business. If I had to guess i would say there's a pair of 1.1 sets up front and maybe one set aft. Some one who knows might chime in.

Looks like Measure 22 to me.

USS Burleigh is a Bayfield Class attack transport. Check the wikipedia article for those- it has a list of the ships in the class including Burleigh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayfield_class_attack_transport

Floating Drydock has drawings for at least two of the class: Bolivar and Grafton. Grafton's are dated 9/44 which should suit your purposes. I'll leave it to you to look further.

http://www.floatingdrydock.com/

I'd suggest you buy one of those sets and compare them to any photos you have of Burleigh.

Thanks amphib and tankbuilder,

I am not very familiar with ships particularly transports. Was it merely guns were different, the way these were omitted or not, the landing crafts and most importantly the shape of the superstructure itself were changed in a major way or not. Seems to me I need a plan view of these transports and the exact things which were changed/differences 

I am not knowledgeable enough on this subject. I usually do planes and armor and due to that I would like to make it the simplest basic scale model wartime transport version as a representation, like the most general shape but not of an exact replica of any particular ship

Zaf

Hi Tankerbuilder

No I didn't forget the series of victories. I was merely responding to Zafs question of how he could finish the Hawaiian Pilot as an unarmed  military ship with no particular ship in mind.  Since there were some 500 plus Victories built it stands to reason that many were probably painted similar to the Navy color scheme but who knows how many.

Hi, AMPHIB; I do have to state that there is a series of VICTORIES you are forgetting. OLYMPIC steamship and navigation company for example, had six former victory ships .these were all over haze grey and had a black stack cap. The decks were  dark bluegrey and all overheads were white. All the inclined ladders and vertical ladders all had yellow rungs(for safety) as mandated by OSHA. The many companies that did BUY, VICTORY ships usually painted them the common black hulls,dark red decks ,with buff houses and white overheads.Rails were white and the stacks were neutral colors with the house colors or company letters on them.       tankerbuilder

Zaf

My information indicates that the Burleigh was a Bayfield class APA. If you go to navsource.org you will see picture showing how any of the Bayfield class was configured. There are additional sections to the superstructure and gun platforms that were removed when the ship became the Hawaiian Pilot. All of the Bayfield class were equipped with two single open 5/38 guns one fore and one aft, 4 twin 40mm guns, two forward and two aft, and 18 single 20mm guns. Also there were boats: 12 lcvps, probably 3 each to triple banked welin davits, there were 4 LCM6s, and 3 lcpl mk IVs. For part of Burleigh's career she was painted camouflage measure 32. If the lcpls were in fact mk IVs they would have had to be deck loaded as the enclosed cabin would have prevented them from being picked up by a welin davit.

Hope this helps.

Ted

Thanks bondoman for these useful links. I think it's easier to  convert it to the Burleigh compare to scratch building a ship to an aircraft carrier.  What the exact things I need for this, such as so many guns and cannons etc

Thanks

Zaf

Khedive is a good example. Here's a website:

http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/ESCORT/KHEDIVE.htm

More than 30 ships were built from C3 class hulls for use by the RN, and are pretty worthy subjects as they are well documented.

For an air wing, look at White Ensign Models. They sell a good selection of 1/400 aircraft produced by L'Arsenal, including Martlets (Wildcats), Avengers, Fulmars, Hellcats and Swordfish. Sorry, no Seafires. These exist I suppose to augment the various 1/400 Heller and Airfix carrier models sold over the years.

http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_L_Arsenal_117.html

It's also the best source IMHO for every combination of 40mm cannon you could ever need.

I bought my CVE drawings from Floating Drydock.

This project is a challenge, but at this scale not too time consuming. Heck, I only spent two years converting the Esso Glasgow to a fleet oiler.

Hi,

Thanks for all these information. There are so many possibilities to do if one have the parts. How to do an escort carrier version and I think the British had some of these such as HMS Kedieve and a few others. If one built as an aircraft carrier should it be a major work on it and how to find the aircraft models for it?

Thanks

Zaf

Of course there's that option too, hardest of all. Good for you to do it, I'd like to see a pic. That's impressive.

Yeah Bondoman I had the same problem with the Revell Montrose. What they did was cut 12 scale feet out of the hull bringing the bottom up to the center line of the propeller shaft. I have a set of the original hull lines drawings so I put back the missing 12 feet to give the model a full hull. I suspect you've heard of Bondo? Well that's what I used plus other auto body fillers. You be amazed how much bulk that 12 feet adds to the model. Can't figure out why Revell chose to do what they did.

I love this subject and find it pretty interesting research. So Zaf you could turn your Hawaiian Pilot into an armed cargo ship (not too hard), a transport (hard, but if you want them I'd be happy to give you a set of boats from a Montrose kit), a seaplane tender, or a CVE (really a scratchbuild from the deck up).

Lots of CVE's were turned back into freighters after the war, so postwar C3 pictures generally are of ships that received a lot of modifications from as built.

Beware- however it is Revell decided to flatten the ship hull, it isn't water line. It seemed to be ok for the Pine Island, as the ship has a lot of freeboard. But for the T2 I built I cut it down about 15 scale feet to a 15 foot freeboard, and for my CVE I have cut it down about 10 scale feet. Lest you assume these are small numbers, thats about 1/4" and makes a big difference in appearance. But it's easy to do, and the ship looks stupid on the trestle bases it comes with, so waterline is the only good option.

Okay I stand corrected on several points. The place to look is navsource.org The SS Hawaiian Pilot actually started life as the USS Burleigh APA95 one of a number of cargo ships converted to APAs prior to standardizing on the Haskell class. As such she got similar features(guns, boat accommodations, and altered superstructure) as the Haskell class. She also got a camoflage paint scheme although she entered the war late and really only participated in the Okinawa campaign. After the war all of this was removed and she became a civilian ship in 1947. It appears that the C-3 hulls were being built at the same time or even earlier than the C-2 Victory hulls.

I suspect it would be a major project to build a model of the Hawaiian Pilot as the Burleigh given the military equipment needed.

EdGrune

 

Zaf:

 

Hi,

Thanks for all these useful information. Is it possible to make the model as it is, without adding armaments but painted navy gray? Did any were simply being in service as it is, unarmed such as in the early days of the war? What color does was it painted? I think some were painted in dazzling zig-zag type of camouflage.

Thanks

Zaf

 

 

Victory Ships didn't begin to be delivered until early 1944 - so you've missed the early war period.   The civilian maritime commission Victories were still delivered with a minimal set of armament  for self defense against U-boats, and later air attack.    

Naval Victories,  as cargo ships (AK), troop ships (AP) , and attack transports (AKA & APA types),  were generally more heavily armed.    Also, the naval versions were generally the ones which received dazzle.   Most photos of civilian Victories which I've seen are overall Ocean Gray.   

C3 did serve during WW2. Because it was a faster and more modern design, large numbers were converted to military ships of various kinds as built. Included in these were the Bogue Class of CVE's including quite a few sent to the Royal Navy.

I'm not too familiar with the color of USMC C3's during the war, but something like the Navy Measure 23 Light Grey with Deck Blue might make sense. I'll leave that to the experts.

I believe that any ship delivered during the war year would have had minimal armament for self protection. This would have consisted of a relatively heavy gun aft plus some antiaircraft guns. As far as I can determine only ships used early in the war ever got the camoflage paint schemes.  The Victory ships were designated as C-2. C-3 would indicate a follow on class of ships probably not delivered until after the war was over. Some of these ships might have gone to the Military Transportation Service a civilian transportation service to supply the military. As such they would have been painted haze gray with a yellow and blue band around the smokestack.

Zaf

Hi,

Thanks for all these useful information. Is it possible to make the model as it is, without adding armaments but painted navy gray? Did any were simply being in service as it is, unarmed such as in the early days of the war? What color does was it painted? I think some were painted in dazzling zig-zag type of camouflage.

Thanks

Zaf

Victory Ships didn't begin to be delivered until early 1944 - so you've missed the early war period.   The civilian maritime commission Victories were still delivered with a minimal set of armament  for self defense against U-boats, and later air attack.    

Naval Victories,  as cargo ships (AK), troop ships (AP) , and attack transports (AKA & APA types),  were generally more heavily armed.    Also, the naval versions were generally the ones which received dazzle.   Most photos of civilian Victories which I've seen are overall Ocean Gray.   

Zaf

There are major differences between the cargo ships and the amphibious attack transports. The Haskell class APAs started with C-2 Victory Hulls. The Later Francis Marion was a C-4 Hull. The conversion included adding an additional deck fore and aft of the main superstructure. This housed a complete hospital aft and troop officer quarters forward. Then there boat handling facilities for 26 or so landing craft including triple bank Welin davits. Last there were guns. The Haskells had a quad 40MM forward, a 5/38 aft and 4 sets of twin 40s, two forward and two aft. If you are proposing to model them as a WWII  ship there were also numerous 20MM guns.

If you want to model an amphibious transport I would try to find the Revell Montrose kit. The kit is not wothout some faults but is a lot better place to start than a C-3 cargo ship. BTW  Complete sets of plans to build the full size ship are available although I can't lay  my hands on the address right now.

Hi,

Thanks for all these useful information. Is it possible to make the model as it is, without adding armaments but painted navy gray? Did any were simply being in service as it is, unarmed such as in the early days of the war? What color does was it painted? I think some were painted in dazzling zig-zag type of camouflage.

Thanks

Zaf

Hi Zaf:

Just a few more notes. Ed's correct about the Burleigh, it was issued as an armed freighter, and is out again in a Revell of Germany box.

Montrose however, is based on the VC-2 Victory ship design. Fred Koster built a beautiful post war civilian Victory from that kit some time back.

Here's a good website for US Maritime Commission ships. It's a little hard to navigate. I'd suggest that for what you are looking for, use the search bar for "shipyards", enter Western Pipe, and see the list. Click on individual ships- some have a "pictures" button at the bottom, some do not.

http://www.usmaritimecommission.de/

I had the best luck with the ships whose names start with "Sea...".

If you find a Burleigh, and I haven't seen the kit, all of these Revell flatbottomed kits had really terrible guns. The 20's aren't so bad, but the 3" and 5" guns are worse than useless. And I think you'd have 40's on a C-3, as well.. I've used 1/350 resin parts from L'Arsenal or similar, and been happy with the results, if slightly overscaled. Or, you could model them the way they usually were in service- under a cover.

There's great 1/192 drawings available from Smithsonian- which work fine reduced at 50% for these projects. Actually 49%, but I get a little lazy.

There's also a generic 1/400 US Navy PE set available that has rails, radar, the aircraft cranes needed for the Pine Island, and some other basic stuff that is a good investment.

My own C-3 conversion project is a Bogue Class escort carrier.

Zaf

I bought a Revell 1/380 scale C-3 freighter Hawaiian Pilot. Could it be modified to wartime transport version? The wartime version had some armaments aboard

Revell already did that for you.  

They make the Montrose and Burleigh attack transports with boat groups and guns.   In fact they civilianized them to make the Hawaiian Pilot version