Aoshima Vicking Model in 1/35th

Short answer is I belive it is.

The full answer is a lot more complicated, and will probably take someone with more experience to straighten out. To start Amazons 1/35 is a typo. The kit is listed as 1/350, but is also listed as 6.8", and those two seem wacky. The Revell 1/50 comes in just under 15" and the 1/72 Emhar at just under 14".Heller did a 1/60, and a 1/180 which I would bet this is. Just to confuse things further, looking at the artwork, the sail,mast, and rigging are the same as the old Aurora box. The Aurora was supposed to be 1/80. I'm not surprised at manufacturers taking such liberties, but I would have expected more from Aoshima. If anyone is still interested in this kit there is one on ebay now for $10 including shipping.

The box art is identical to that of the old, small Imai Viking ship.  (By coincidence I happened to see one in a hobby shop last weekend.)  The Amazon ad doesn't mention the scale or the size, but it does give the shipping weight - which is less than half a pound.  I think it's pretty clear that this is the old Imai kit.  

Free Time Hobbies lists it - but says it's out of stock:  http://www.freetimehobbies.com/AOS43172.aspx .

If I'm right, it's a nice kit - like all the Imai sailing ships.  But it's extremely small.  (The dimensions are on the box top, but I can't read them on my little monitor.)  My recollection is that it's about six inches long - or a little less.  The small size, of course, has implications for the level of detail.  As I recall the oars are inevitably too fat, for instance.  And it has an injection-molded sail.  (Imai's sails of that sort were better than most; they were carefully tapered to sharp edges, so the excessive thickness was less obvious than usual.) 

I had the impression for a while that Aoshima was setting itself up as distributor for most of the old Imai sailing ships.  I just took a look at the Squadron website, though.  A few months it listed quite a few of those kits.  Now it lists no Aoshima ships whatever - even modern warships.  Free Time Hobbies lists quite a few Aoshima warships (including some new ones for pre-ordering), and a handful of ex-Imai sailing ships - but almost all of the latter are marked out of stock.  It looks to me like anybody wanting to acquire any of the ex-Imai sailing ships in Aoshima boxes would be well advised to grab them while the grabbing's good.

jtilley

The box art is identical to that of the old, small Imai Viking ship.  (By coincidence I happened to see one in a hobby shop last weekend.)  The e-bay ad doesn't mention the scale or the size, but it does give the shipping weight - which is less than half a pound.  I think it's pretty clear that this is the old Imai kit.  

HLJ gives the dimensions as follows: No scale is given, but the ship will measure 173mm long, 85mm wide, and 107mm tall when completed.

http://www.hlj.com/product/AOS04317

Well, three of us seem to have been replying to Jake almost simultaneously. 

The dimensions rcweasel and Phil_H quote are consistent with my memory - and the size of the box I saw in the hobby shop the other day.  Rcweasel is, of course, right about the typo in the scale; 1/35 is absurd.  But 1/350 can't be right either.  The box art suggests that the kit is based on, or at least inspired by, the Oseberg Ship, which is about 70 feet long.  If the kit was designed as a scale model of the Oseberg Ship (a mighty big if), the scale would be in the neighborhood of 1/150.

Plastic kit manufacturers, for some reason, seem to have trouble figuring out how big Viking ships were.  The (relatively) new Emhar model of the Gokstad ship may be the only one whose stated scale is right.  The Revell kit (which I've praised many times in this Forum; it's one of my favorites) is an excellent scale model of the Gokstad Ship, but it seems to have a real identity crisis.  The U.S. Revell/Monogram website lists it as 1/72, the Revell Germany website says it's 1/50, and Dr. Graham's fine book, Remembering Revell Model Kits, says it's 1/170.  I've built it, and compared its measurements to a good set of plans for the Gokstad Ship; the kit's dimensions work out to almost - but not quite - 1/64.  The old Heller "Drakkar Oseberg" and its clones are so badly distorted in proportion that figuring out a scale for them would be hopeless.  The ancient Aurora kit (and the reissue from Smer) doesn't really qualify as a scale model of anything - but as I remember it the figures (complete with their ridiculous horned helmets) are indeed close to 1/80.  

Thank you Prof. Tilley for bringing some sense to the matter with your experience. As an Imai mold it seems worth adding to my Viking "fleet". Coming from a Norwegian family (my grandfather went to sea at 12 on a sailing ship) our house was graced in the 60's by the Aurora model,and it's nice to be able to add more accurate models to it. I am one of those returning to the hobby after many years, and I'm doing my research before I tackle both the Emhar and Revell.

Thanks Fellers as usual.

Jake

In the last month I've become a big fan of Imai, as I've been adopted by their version of the Heller 1/100 all plastic Victory, a far superior reissue that corrects so many of the original's faults: the instructions guaranteed to send you to Bedlam and the fuzzy cordage. Alas no wonderful plastic deadeyes. My scans of the Imai instructions are available for those interested.

But IMHO Imai is was the best plastic ship model company, and I've discovered that they reissued at least the Heller Gorch Fock and the Pruessen. Worth looking for I would say.

Imai seems to have had a series:

Mini plastic kits: (scales not given)
Greek Warship
Roman Warship
Santa Maria
Viking Ship
Junk

(thanks to ePinniger)

My math suggests that based on the Oseberg ship, this model would be 1/123.

rcweasel

Thank you Prof. Tilley for bringing some sense to the matter with your experience. As an Imai mold it seems worth adding to my Viking "fleet". Coming from a Norwegian family (my grandfather went to sea at 12 on a sailing ship) our house was graced in the 60's by the Aurora model,and it's nice to be able to add more accurate models to it. I am one of those returning to the hobby after many years, and I'm doing my research before I tackle both the Emhar and Revell.

I'm a little hesitant to endorse the old Imai kit whole-heartedly, for the simple reason that I haven't seen it outside the box in many years.  It isn't easy to produce a good scale ship model on such a tiny scale.  I wonder just how delicate the oars are, for instance.  The oars of a Viking ship model can make or break it - and replacing them would, due to the sheer number of them, be quite a project.

I'm a big fan of the old Revell kit.  It was originally released (according to Dr. Graham's book - which I trust in such matters) in 1977, and was the last  genuinely new sailing ship produced by Revell of the U.S. (as opposed to Revell Germany, which has released a few since then).  Revell got into the sailing ship genre with its original U.S.S. Constitution in 1956; the company has now been out of the game longer than it was in it. 

I don't know how many times I built that old Aurora kit - starting when I was about eight years old.  It has a special spot in my memory - and I'm sure it was responsible for introducing thousands of people to the joys of ship modeling.  But as a scale model...well, it just plain isn't a scale model.  The designers apparently did no research whatsoever; they just whipped up something that matched the 1950s American conception of what a Viking ship looked like.  (It doesn't have a clinker-built hull.  It does have permanent benches for the rowers - which none of the surviving Norse ships do.  There's no sign of the delicate, graceful sheer line that's so characteristic of Viking craft.  The "dragon head" on the stem, in addition to having a distinctly non-Norse character, would have been impossibly big and heavy.  And some of the guys walking the deck have horned helmets.  One of the first things one learns on getting serious about the subject is that the horned helmet is not part of Norse culture.  Wagner operas yes; Vikings no.)

You probably already know this, but the essential source of reference for any Viking ship model is The Viking Ships:  Their Ancestry and Evolution, A.W. Brogger and Haaken Shetelig.  It contains reasonably detailed plans of the Gokstad and Oseberg Ships - the two biggest surviving Viking vessels.  (The book is long out of print, but I found a used copy on the web for about $15.00.)  Those plans of the Gokstad Ship make the Revell kit look pretty good.  It has the right number of planks on the hull, all the deck planks are laid out exactly right (despite the fact that, in the real ship, they're just pine boards laid loosely in rabbets cut in the tops of the deck beams), the oars are just right (and come in three different lengths - just like the real ones), and all the detail parts - the shields, anchors, rigging blocks, etc. - match artifacts that were found in the real ship.  (The big exceptions in that regard are the bow and stern ornaments.  The stem and stern of the real Gokstad Ship projected into a more acidic layer of soil in the burial mound, and whatever decoration was on them was eaten away.  The Revell parts are speculative - but at least they're consistent with other Norse artwork.)  The biggest problems with the kit, in terms of accuracy, are errors of omission.  A few small components are missing (the scallop-shaped trim pieces at the bow and stern, and one little bulkhead), and the knees connecting the deck beams with the hull halves aren't there.  (On my model I fixed them with Milliput epoxy putty.) 

I was about halfway finished with my model (based on the Revell kit) when the new Emhar kit was announced.  I haven't seen it in the flesh, but on the basis of web photos it seems to be an excellent kit.  The Emhar people seem to have included considerably more detail below the deck (offering the option of leaving some of those temporary deck planks off), and apparently did a much better job with the deck knees.  On the other hand, Emhar apparently didn't make any attempt at a "wood grain" effect on the planking (The "wood grain" in the Revell kit is excellent.  In fact it looks remarkably like the "wood grain" on various Imai kits.  One does wonder....)  At any rate, I'm pretty satisfied with my model.  If I were ever to do another one...well, I'm honestly not sure whether I'd pick the Revell or Emhar kits.  It's nice (and, in the plastic sailing ship world, unusual) to have two good kits to choose from.

There's quite a bit of interesting stuff on Viking ships, and models thereof, here in the Forum.  This page would be a good start:  /forums/t/102174.aspx?PageIndex=1 .

Good luck.

The page you mentioned is so good it's almost intimidating. I am in awe of the wood finish woodburner achieved. If I can get the Imai ship at a decent price, I may use it to try to get that finish down. When I first discovered this forum, I spent several weeks just digging through old threads. It's amazing how much wonderful information is in here.

The book you mentioned is new to me and now on my reading list. I have the Conway's Earliest ships and the Osprey book is on its way. In digging through the forums, I put together my summer eading list, mostly from your suggestions. The hard part now is putting down the books and picking up the models.

I guess there is no such thing as the perfect model. I love the crossbeams and knees , and the ability to show them on the Emhar ship, but love the woodgrain on the Revell. The Emhar even has the boarding plank that can be seen in some pictures of the Oseberg ship. The sections of overlapping shields on the Emhar are probably going to be left off, and I can't bring myself to use the shield decals on the Revell. They just look to fancy for something that will be hacked at by swords and axes. They seem in the same category as Auroras horned helmets. I'll probably paint some or all of the shields with more likely patterns. At this point I'm thinking of getting the Emhar oarsmen figures and doing that ship under oar, and the Revell under sail with at least some shields up, trying to show the best of each ship. But that could change by tommorrow. LOL

Thank you for all the suggestions. When I actually get started, I'll try to post some pics for ongoing critiques and suggestions.

The Revell decal sheet may be the worst feature of the kit.  The decorations for the shields do at least have a vaguely Norse look to them, but there's just no way the shields of a real Viking ship would have been decorated in pairs (i.e., with identical designs on the port and starboard sides).  But that...thing...that's intended to be applied to the sail is a hideous joke.  (The initial release of the kit, incidentally, didn't have it; the original sail decal was a believable silhouette of a falcon.)  I recommend throwing the decals in the trash.

The shields of the Gokstad Ship were painted overall yellow and overall black.  The general assumption is that they were hung alternately - black, yellow, black, yellow.  Scholars generally agree that the purpose of the shields was more ornamental than anything else; they probably were hung on the bulwarks when the ship was entering or leaving port, but not when she was under sail. 

The Osprey book is a good one.  It includes, among much else that's useful, a nice modern painting of what the Gokstad Ship looked like under weigh. 

I picked up a set of Emhar oarsmen, with the intention - some day - maybe - no promises- of adding them to my finished Revell model.  (The difference in scale between the Revell and Emhar kits actually isn't much.  The Emhar figures work out to be about 5' 6" tall on the scale of the Revell ship.)  They're nice figures.  The plastic in which they're cast really does bend, if you're careful, so no two figures have to be identical.

Good luck. 

John,

I found two Osprey Books on the 'Vikings', which one are you referancing?

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/store/The-Vikings_9780850455656/

or this one

http://cgi.ebay.com/General-Military-Vikings-Osprey-NEW-/170510818769?cmd=ViewItem&pt=US_Fiction_Books&hash=item27b33c9dd1

I have the entire Time Life Series "Seafarers"  really good book on the Vikings.  On the cover it shows a two color square sail, red and off white, as well as a serpent head on the prow and the fiddle head on the stern.

Jake

My own opinion is that the shields on the G ship were only there because it was a funeral ship. I believe there is one sole coin that seems to show a ship under way with them so mounted. I can see of no other reason to put them out there. It was a shore raiding ship, not doing battle beam to beam with other ships, and if there was a hail of arrows coming from shore, which I doubt most villagers were able to get up, I'd have figured out a way to put the shield over my head anyhow. More like I'd want it stored with the other weapons where I could grab it on the way ashore.

Just my

Jake

Osprey actually has 3 Viking books, but I found a fourth, The Vikings:Voyagers of Discovery and Plunder which is a compilation of the three along with some new material. Best part is that it's only a little more than any one of the three. If I remember right the three were The Vikings, Viking Longships, and Viking Hersir. The last is about the Vikings as warriors, and I'm hoping it will give some ideas on painting the figures.

I just noticed that the Emhar model is on sale at Squadron for $ 19.

The consensus among the experts (one of which I most emphatically am not) is that shields were hung on the gunwales of Viking ships primarily for ceremonial and/or decorative purposes - not for military ones.  But there are enough surviving pieces of graphic and literary evidence to suggest that the practice was common - and not just for funerals. 

The Gokstad Ship has a pair of fittings called (by the modern archaeologists) "shield racks."  It's a narrow strip of oak running along the inside of the gunwale, just under the caprail; it has a series of notches cut neatly in it.  (The Revell kit represents the shield racks quite neatly, though they're molded integrally with the hull halves.  I don't know how the Emhar kit handles them.)  The consensus is that the leather straps of the shields were secured to the shield racks.  (The Osprey and Brogger books contain diagrams showing the details.)  I suppose it's conceivable that the researchers have completely misinterpreted this particular detail, and that what they're calling shield racks were in fact used for some other purpose.  But I doubt it.

I don't believe that the shields buried with the Gokstad Ship were the property of individual crew members.  The fact that all 64 of them are identical in construction and measurement, and half of them are painted black and half yellow, seems to argue pretty strongly against that.  (That particular set of shields may not have had any belligerent purpose whatever; they may have been made specifically for the funeral.  Logically, though, that seems unlikely.  They're quite elaborate assemblies of oak, iron, and leather; it's difficult to visualize the local shieldmakers sweating over the building of 64 such things just so they could be buried under a mound of dirt.  On the other hand, human beings have done stranger things.)   And I don't know of any evidence to support the idea of shields painted in brightly-colored, personalized designs hanging on the gunwales of a Viking ship of any sort. 

The most reasonable inference seems to me to be that those black and yellow shields were the property of the chieftain (or whatever he was) who was buried in the ship, and that their function was to decorate the ship - during her active service as well as after she was buried.  But we'll probably never know for sure.

All three of those Osprey books on the Vikings are certainly worth acquiring.  I confess I have something of a love/hate relationship with that publisher; it's published so many books over the years that some inconsistency in quality is inevitable.   But those three are among the best I've seen.  (I was lucky enough to run into the "three-in-one" volume before I spent any money on the individual ones.  The three-in-one version is definitely the one to get, if you can find it.)  The Conway's History of the Ship  volume, The First Ships, is also a fine one - and about the most up-to-date in terms of scholarship.  Those Conway books are the first place I look nowadays when I have some basic question about the history of naval architecture.  The biggest drawback to that series is the price - especially now that, so far as I can tell, the books are all out of print.  A few years ago Conway published a paperback version, but even it seems to be gone now - and drawing high prices on the used book market.

bondoman, Hi there.   Just saw your post, and wondered if i could get a copy of the Imai Victory instructions?  I've got the Heller kit, and, well, the instructions are indeed crazy.  Thanks!

Oh, and my email is baxterc86@hotmail.com.  Thanks!

Prof. Tilley, The Emhar kit has the shield racks molded into the rail in the same way the Revell does. As you stated even the experts can only speculate on their use. Being a nonexpert has never stopped me from throwing in my two cents though. Coming into a harbor it could a salute or even meant to be intimidating to hang the shields on the side. I think of ships returning to port with sailors lining the deck. As a practical matter, if they were lashed to the rack they might have added some protection from wind and spray for the oarsmen. Given their size, number, and bulk, if they weren't stowed on the sides, it would seem to me that stowing them under the floorboards might be most practical for a voyage. They could then be taken out and hung over the side where they were accesible before approaching their objective. As you said there is no evidence, so we can play these what if games. I might have to pick up a copy of the movie "The Vikings". It's been so many years since I have seen it, I don't remember the details.

Ok, I found a few scenes from the Kirk Douglas movie,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvB1jLld1W0

Advance it to 3:28 seconds and watch, still it's only hollywood, but it shows some stuff with the sheilds.

ALSO note directly under the stern it seems as if she is being  propelled by something. 

Thanks for that link. Actually it looked pretty good for Hollywood. They may actually have consulted someone who knew somthing about Viking ships, although I wonder if we need to put in a disclaimer that we watched solely for entertainment purposes and no actual modeling will be based on what we saw.

I think you are right about some sort of propulsion. Just starch the sail to shape, add a moter and forget about pesky things like wind and weather. A few frames later it looks as though the ship is moving at right angles to the sail. One of the producers of Master and Commander said "The secret of making good movies at sea, is to NOT go to sea".

If you are interested in the Conways The Earliest Ships, keep an eye on Ebay. I was able to snag a nice copy for $12 including shipping. Besides the info on the viking ships there is a chapter about the problems of reconstructing ancient vessels talking about the same kind of issues we face in trying to create accurate models. Quite a few replicas of viking ships have been made and there are some good pictures of construction and in use.

Richard

I  am 100% sure that the Aoshima kit is made from the old IMAI Molds.

A few years back Aoshima bought most of the molds and licences when IMAI closed their doors.

Pity is that Aoshima didn't do much with them besides a short run of a few series(UFO, Mospeada, etc) and than used the licences to make expensive die-cast versions.

 IMAI had some good licences and made some fine kits(given their age) but sadly most of them will never see the light of day again.

HTH.

The Norwegian blood has been pounding in my veins since the mail came today. The three in one Osprey book came today, and it looks like everything I'd hoped it would be. The color illustrations should really be a help painting the oarsmen figures. Also arriving was The Viking Shipsby Brogger and Shetelig which had been recommended by Preof. Tilley. It's an old library copy, but I've already been through all the pictures multiple times. This is a book I would have passed by without the recommendation. It hasn't taken me long here in the forums to appreciate what an invaluable resource he is.

Finally, the Aoshima viking ship came in, and despite his protests, it is almost exactly as Prof. Tilley remembered. His halfzheimers must be nowhere near as bad as my dumbmentia.

It's not bad as a small scale model, but I don't thinks it's worth much more than the $10 I paid, certainly not the Aoshima asking price. The Revell and Emhar still seem to be the gold standard for viking ships. As Prof. Tilley mentioned the Smer 1/60 viking ships is the old Aurora ship, down to the tacky vinyl sail. So anyone suffering nostalgia pangs can pick up one for much less than the Aurora collectors prices. I'm thinking of getting one and even painting it to the garish box colors just to show friends when they wonder why I spend as much or more on research material as a model.