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Most wanted ship kits

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  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Most wanted ship kits
Posted by Don Stauffer on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 8:57 AM

A recent issue of FSM published a survey they had done on the most wanted kits. In the ship catagory they listed the top three in each of several size/scale ranges.  Not a single civil ship showed up in the survey.  Does no one else want to build civil ships as well as naval ones?

I am thankful for the kits of civil ships that are out there, but now I see why there are not more!  Now, I do also build naval ships, but geez, I'll bet there are far more civil ships afloat out there than naval ones, and I'd like to see kits more representative of what are actually on the world's oceans, rivers, and lakes.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    December 2009
Posted by Harshman II on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 9:29 AM

Warship looks nicer than civil ship, really!!!

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 3:17 PM

People want a ship they've heard of. Warships have received more press in history than most civilian ships that quietly travel the waters.....

Tracy White Researcher@Large

  • Member since
    May 2008
Posted by tucchase on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 3:38 PM

There have been a couple of threads in Ship Model Forum about this very subject recently (this past month).  Some of them quite heated.  The consensus there is that while warships are undoubtably more popular, there is quite a bit of interest in non-military ships.  Especially passenger liners.  But since very few of these even resembled each other, much less used the same plans, it is harder for a model manufacturer to get a good return on a model.  With a model of the Titanic, someone can make one of its sisters.  But how many of these liners had sister ships?  Most were one-of-a-kind.  Some had several configurations that could be made, such as Troopship service, which would give the manufacturer a little more leeway to make multiple models from one set of basic molds.  But most warships had several sister ships (some, dozens!).  The main subject on SMF was the Normandie, and why no plastic company has made one in something larger than 1/1250 scale (I think it was Dragon that made that one).  There was a lot of argument about the reasons why and why not.  Basically, it comes down to whether the manufacturer can sell enough units to pay for doing the research, and mold-making, and designing, etc.  I think someone mentioned a figure of 10,000 units as a minimum break-even point.  If they only make 5000, then the price may be to high to actually sell that many.   But if they price it lower and make 10,000, then they may  be stuck with a couple thousand leftovers.  Its a delicate balancing act.

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: brisbane australia
Posted by surfsup on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 8:18 PM

There are only a few Civllian Ships I would love to see and they are as follows....

Andrea Doria

A Good and accurate Queen Elizabeth

Normandie

Jervis Bay

Rawalpindi.

The last two became AMC's. The Jervis Bay took on the Admiral Scheer to protect her Convoy she was guarding. Her sacrafice basically saved most of her flock. The Rawalpinidi took on the Scharnhorst and the Gneisenau in a one sided affairwith only 36 survivors from her. If I remember, both Captains recieved the VC for their actions....Cheers Mark

 

If i was your wife, i'd poison your tea! If Iwas your husband, I would drink it! WINSTON CHURCHILL

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Thursday, September 16, 2010 8:37 AM

tucchase

There have been a couple of threads in Ship Model Forum about this very subject recently (this past month).  Some of them quite heated.  The consensus there is that while warships are undoubtably more popular, there is quite a bit of interest in non-military ships.  Especially passenger liners.  But since very few of these even resembled each other, much less used the same plans, it is harder for a model manufacturer to get a good return on a model.  With a model of the Titanic, someone can make one of its sisters.  But how many of these liners had sister ships?  Most were one-of-a-kind.  Some had several configurations that could be made, such as Troopship service, which would give the manufacturer a little more leeway to make multiple models from one set of basic molds.  But most warships had several sister ships (some, dozens!).  The main subject on SMF was the Normandie, and why no plastic company has made one in something larger than 1/1250 scale (I think it was Dragon that made that one).  There was a lot of argument about the reasons why and why not.  Basically, it comes down to whether the manufacturer can sell enough units to pay for doing the research, and mold-making, and designing, etc.  I think someone mentioned a figure of 10,000 units as a minimum break-even point.  If they only make 5000, then the price may be to high to actually sell that many.   But if they price it lower and make 10,000, then they may  be stuck with a couple thousand leftovers.  Its a delicate balancing act.

I don't blame the mfgs. I'd like to see more modelers broaden their interest. 

There are so many other civil ships than liners.  Of course, there have been a number of tugboats, but there is room for more.  Never seen a single plastic kit of a towboat, so common on midwest rivers.  Lots of other types of small craft on rivers, in harbours.  How about ferry boats..  Yeah, people like to build what they hear of.  How about ones they see?

The recent Revell-gr container ship was a great release, one greatly needed.  We just need more.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    May 2008
Posted by tucchase on Friday, September 17, 2010 5:47 AM

I agree.  And with the sheer volume of truly new ship kits coming out in plastic nowdays, you may be getting your wish in the next few years.  That new container ship was certainly popular, here, and elsewhere! 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by DURR on Sunday, September 19, 2010 1:39 PM

i agrree with you Don  i would love to see a lng tanker or two  and a few modern passenger ships  and even smaller lake frieghters and large ore carriers  like the edmund fitz.   all in Non-resin

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Monday, September 20, 2010 8:49 AM

DURR

i agrree with you Don  i would love to see a lng tanker or two  and a few modern passenger ships  and even smaller lake frieghters and large ore carriers  like the edmund fitz.   all in Non-resin

There are a few laker kits out there.  There is a nice 1:700 resin model of the Fitz, not too pricey. I think Carr hobbies in Duluth handles those.  There is a 1:87 scale laker, styrene, a generic one, aimed primarily at model railroaders.  You can build it in various lengths.  Even full length it is a bit short. I think you can get that one through Walthers.

There are a number of plans for those willing to scratch build, and A J Fisher co. has been bought at back in operation.  They used to provide wooden (solid hull) lakers.  Don't know which kits are back in production.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    August 2008
Posted by tankerbuilder on Friday, October 1, 2010 7:57 PM

Hey, DON, I agree with you. That,s why I acquired a whole lot of papermodels when I could.This gave me lots of models of civilian vessels that I could build in the same scale or enlarge to my favorite scale for these which is 1/87. I do wish ,like you there were more ,but,the companies go where the profit is. Like model airplanes if there is a higher demand we,ll see more BF 109 s and FW 190s. That holds true in ships too , darn it! oh, well I guess you and I will still be scratching when we want what we want. tankerbuilder

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Saturday, October 2, 2010 7:27 AM

I also agree with Don, but few civilian ships have made history as the publishers understand it.  Also, how about the lack of plastic sailing ship kits? There have been many of historic interest, but the manufacturers ignore them as well.

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    July 2009
Posted by Publius on Sunday, October 3, 2010 10:46 AM

     Without reading the thread I'm still for some Manilla Galleons which I am going to try and simulate with the IMAI or is it Entex kit when I get it. The Drake ship from these guys has the outside ribs and I'm going to take a lick at that. I'm in Siam and like to think of the first ships that reached this faraway exotic land. I'd also like to see a detailed SS Central America in 1/96 and some generic large sailing ship( from the California/Nevada Gold Rush era. Maybe there is stuff out there, but I'm no expert.

    On my workbench: Revell Kearsarge 1874, Revell Santa Maria converted to the most generic freight vessel I can figure out/extra cannons, Greek/Roman war/freight galley in black and Great Western/Airfix (and too many others ie, HO trains and 1/32 slot cars.)  No more pics yet, I gave my digital to the cleaning lady. She was on a verrrrrry big bummer. (no details) Paul/Siam

How does this work?

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Derry, New Hampshire, USA
Posted by rcboater on Sunday, October 3, 2010 8:16 PM

I have seen one in plastic-- There was the little Lindberg towboat-- one of their four little (3-4 inches long IIRC)  workboats:  A Towboat, a little tug, a fireboat, and I forget the fourth.    The kits were sold individually, and later in one box as "workboats four" or some such thing....

 

Don Stauffer

  Never seen a single plastic kit of a towboat, so common on midwest rivers. 

Webmaster, Marine Modelers Club of New England

www.marinemodelers.org

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Monday, October 4, 2010 7:41 AM

No I'm am really not interested in building  any civilian ships,except possibly Titanic.Men-O-War are so much better looking in my eyes.It's just an opinion thing.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Monday, October 4, 2010 8:20 AM

rcboater

I have seen one in plastic-- There was the little Lindberg towboat-- one of their four little (3-4 inches long IIRC)  workboats:  A Towboat, a little tug, a fireboat, and I forget the fourth.    The kits were sold individually, and later in one box as "workboats four" or some such thing....

 

 

 Don Stauffer:

 

 

  Never seen a single plastic kit of a towboat, so common on midwest rivers. 

 

That's right- I had forgotten all about that one!

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    February 2009
  • From: Klaipeda, Lithuania, Europe
Posted by Wojszwillo on Monday, October 4, 2010 2:01 PM

My most wanted ship kits (all sailing ships):

De Zeven Provincien

Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde

Prins Willem

Royal Caroline

Rotter Loeve

Santisima Trinidad

San Martin

Le Ambitieux

HMS Beagle ("normal" model, not "clone" of HMAV Bounty)

Prince Royal

Henri Grace A Dieu - Great Harry

Mary Rose

Ark Royal (Ark Raleigh)

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Wednesday, October 6, 2010 1:55 PM

That's a good list!  I would add:

  • HMS Vanguard
  • HMS Queen Charlotte
  • HMS Agamemnon
  • HMS Captain (Nelson's)
  • HMS Bellerophon
  • HMS Shannon
  • Bucentaure
  • Droits de L'Homme

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    September 2010
Posted by GeorgeA on Thursday, October 7, 2010 12:10 PM

Overall, I like sailing ships better than modern battleships.

I think the main complaints people have are 1) The sails look fake and 2) doing rigging properly can be a real pain.

I fully realize these are true. The sails do look fake. The rigging is probably not even 75% accurate.

I still love 'em.

Deal.

  • Member since
    February 2009
  • From: Klaipeda, Lithuania, Europe
Posted by Wojszwillo on Thursday, October 7, 2010 2:33 PM

But You can simply make cloth sails and 100% accurate rigging - all in Your hands...

By the way, i like only sailing ships, with small list of exeptions, not sailing ships: i like RMS Titanic, IJN Yamato, Bismarck, Varyag, HMS Hood (strange, but all of these ships has dramatic end). And that's all.

  • Member since
    September 2010
Posted by GeorgeA on Friday, October 8, 2010 10:00 AM

I work in the smaller scales (1/200th and such). I just don't have the space for larger models. The weave of a piece of cloth is way too big for the scale. Also, most threads would be too thick. And sprue breaks and bends at all the wrong times and places.

And don't get me started on the useless instructions found in most kits. Adding together all the time I've spent on the computer and at the library looking up how to do the rigging depresses me.

If you have any good sources still in print let me know 

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2009
  • From: Klaipeda, Lithuania, Europe
Posted by Wojszwillo on Friday, October 8, 2010 11:04 AM

I can recommend these books:

Lennarth Peterssen "Rigging Period Ship Models"

Roger Charles Anderson "The Rigging Of Ships In The Days Of The Spritsail Topmast, 1600 - 1720"

Jean Boudriot "The Seventy-Four Gun Ship Vol. 3 (Masts - Sails - Rigging)"

Wolfram zu Mondfeld "Historic Ship Models"

Karl Heinz Marquardt "Bemastung und Takelung von Schiffen des 18. Jahrjunderts"

Rolf Hoeckel "Modellbau von Schiffen des 16. und 17. Jahrhunderts"

George Biddlecombe "Art of Rigging" - old one, but can be found on Google books search

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Friday, October 8, 2010 12:03 PM

My own "Most Wanted" were completely out of the mainstream.  I'd like to see kits of the USS Ranger (CV-4) and USS Wasp (CV-7) in 1/700.  I know, I know, there are the resin Corsair Armada kits out there, but I think they're out of production again, and hard to find.  A new 1/700 Langley would be nice, too.  As with so many other CV modelers, I'd like to be able to model the first 9 US carriers, and those three would fill the gaps.

Best regards,

Brad

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Friday, October 8, 2010 12:23 PM

the Baron

A new 1/700 Langley would be nice, too.  As with so many other CV modelers, I'd like to be able to model the first 9 US carriers, and those three would fill the gaps.

In order to be done correctly,  the use of photo-etch for the latticework on the Langley is almost a requirement.   Doing it a an open web matrix in injected PS is probably beyond the capabilities of injection molding technology.     Doing it as a solid piece with raised webbing (a'la many injected molded cranes) just wouldn't replicate the light latticework detail.  

That being said,   Loose Cannon does a resin & brass Langley in 1:700 scale.   It may be finised either as the first carrier configuration or in the as-lost seaplane tender configuration.

The Loose Cannon kit is broadly based on the version presented in FSM from 15 to 20 years ago.  With the details improved and the photoetch presented in a finer form than the artwork in FSM allowed.

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Bloomsburg PA
Posted by Dr. Hu on Saturday, October 9, 2010 12:25 PM

How about the USS Wolverine and the USS Sable Aircraft carriers in WWII? I'd like to give them a shot as well but I know there is a limited market. How many out there have even heard of them?

 

Jack

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Saturday, October 9, 2010 11:35 PM

Weren't they training carriers on the Great Lakes? Didn't one of them have paddle wheels?

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    May 2008
Posted by tucchase on Sunday, October 10, 2010 1:29 AM

warshipguy

Weren't they training carriers on the Great Lakes? Didn't one of them have paddle wheels?

Bill Morrison

Now this sounds like an interesting ship!  Paddle wheels on a carrier?

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Sunday, October 10, 2010 8:50 AM

tucchase

 

 warshipguy:

 

Weren't they training carriers on the Great Lakes? Didn't one of them have paddle wheels?

Bill Morrison

 

 

Now this sounds like an interesting ship!  Paddle wheels on a carrier?

Both the Sable and the Wolverine were paddlewheel driven.   They were originally passenger ferry/cruise ships on the Great Lakes.    They were reconstructed,  cut down and build up with a flight deck for basic carrier quals.  

 

Plans are available and a master in 1:350 has (which ones been made I forget)been made.   Problems were encountered in preparing the molds.    The steep undercuts for the paddle sponsons made for a very difficult mold.   Making a multipart hull is considered but aligning the sponsons for minimal seams has been a sticking point.     Large potential reject costs

The PE for the deck lattice work as well as the paddlewheels would  also be extensive (expensive).   The wheels were not just "riverboat' type,   Rather they were turn of the century state  of the art with a feathering mechanism

Tags: a
  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Sunday, October 10, 2010 8:50 AM

tucchase

 

 warshipguy:

 

Weren't they training carriers on the Great Lakes? Didn't one of them have paddle wheels?

Bill Morrison

 

 

Now this sounds like an interesting ship!  Paddle wheels on a carrier?

Both the Sable and the Wolverine were paddlewheel driven.   They were originally passenger ferry/cruise ships on the Great Lakes.    They were reconstructed,  cut down and build up with a flight deck for basic carrier quals.  

 

Plans are available and a master in 1:350 has (which ones been made I forget)been made.   Problems were encountered in preparing the molds.    The steep undercuts for the paddle sponsons made for a very difficult mold.   Making a multipart hull is considered but aligning the sponsons for minimal seams has been a sticking point.     Large potential reject costs

The PE for the deck lattice work as well as the paddlewheels would  also be extensive (expensive).   The wheels were not just "riverboat' type,   Rather they were turn of the century state  of the art with a feathering mechanism

Tags: a
  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Sunday, October 10, 2010 11:07 AM

EdGrune

 

..

 

 

Both the Sable and the Wolverine were paddlewheel driven.   They were originally passenger ferry/cruise ships on the Great Lakes.    They were reconstructed,  cut down and build up with a flight deck for basic carrier quals.

 

Plans are available and a master in 1:350 has (which ones been made I forget)been made.   Problems were encountered in preparing the molds.    The steep undercuts for the paddle sponsons made for a very difficult mold.   Making a multipart hull is considered but aligning the sponsons for minimal seams has been a sticking point.     Large potential reject costs

Where are the plans available? I am not above a scratchbuilt- I have long wanted to do one or the other.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Sunday, October 10, 2010 4:44 PM

NARA,,  College Park, MD

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