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Help with Revell USS Constitution

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  • Member since
    October 2010
Help with Revell USS Constitution
Posted by sumter III on Saturday, October 30, 2010 1:11 PM

I recently picked up two old Revell kits; one of them the USS Constitution.  This kit does not have sails, crew or rigging blocks.  The box said it is 22 inches long.  No additional markings indicate what scale this would be.  The instructions are copyright 1960 with a print date of 1990.

What I want are blocks for the rigging, but need a scale to start the search.  Anyone here have a clue as to what scale this old kit was?

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Danville, IN USA
Posted by stoney on Saturday, October 30, 2010 2:02 PM

Someone here might know, what is the kit number on the side or end of the box. Does the box give the over all length of the finished ship? 

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Danville, IN USA
Posted by stoney on Saturday, October 30, 2010 2:09 PM

I believe that is about 1:196 scale.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Sunday, October 31, 2010 4:13 AM

1:196 would be much too small for the stated size of 22 inches.  Not having done the math for lack of more precise dimensions, I would estimate somewhere between1:125 and 1:144, leaning closer to 1:125.

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, October 31, 2010 9:33 AM

Revell has issued so many Constitution kits over the years that it's tough to sort them all out.  When I first read sumter III's initial post my inclination was to think he was talking about the "Simplified Series" kit - the mid-sized version between the original, 1/192-scale one from 1956 and the big, 1/96 one from 1965.  But the 1960 date on the instructions throws me.

According to the bible on the subject, Dr. Thomas Graham's Remembering Revell Model Kits, that mid-sized version (22" does sound about right for it) was originally released in 1969 and remained in the catalog until 1975.  (His coverage stops in 1979, so he's no help with that printing date of 1990.)  He gives the scale as 1/159, which sounds about right.

That kit was part of an effort by Revell in the late sixties and early seventies to drum up some interest in sailing ship models among people who didn't normally build them.  (Olde Phogies like me will remember that American model manufacturers generally were having a hard time in those days.  That was when Aurora went out of business and Monogram, having been taken over by Mattel, virtually dropped out of the serious scale modeling scene for several years.)  The series was promoted with phrases like "Build a Legend In a Weekend," and the kits (the others were a Cutty Sark, a Thermopylae, and a Mayflower) featured such things as low parts counts, injection-molded "shrouds and ratlines," and lots of detail parts cast integrally with the decks.  (The Constitution, Cutty Sark, and Thermopylae were, in terms of overall appearance, scaled-down versions of the big 1/96 kits.  The Mayflower was scale up from the excellent little 18" one.)  Then, much to the surprise of ship modelers, Revell issued a brand new kit in that series:  the yacht America.  That one wasn't particularly simplified; it was a mighty nice kit - and I wish it would get reissued.

As I remember, the easiest way to identify that "simplified" Constitution was by means of the guns and the gundeck (or, more properly, maindeck) - the one that's only visible through the big hatch in the waist).  In the "simplified" version it was a relatively small part that only extended slightly fore and aft of the hatch.  (In the 1/96 kit it's made up of three pieces, and runs the full length of the hull.)  The guns (or at least their carriages; my memory's vague on this point) were molded integrally with the deck; the maindeck gunports fore and aft of the waist were molded shut.

Bottom lineif that's the kit in question, Dr. Graham's stated scale of 1/159 (this was the "fit the box" era) is probably about right.  But that date of 1960 on the instructions doesn't make sense.  (In 1960 the only Constitution in Revell's catalog would have been the grand old 1/192 - or 1/196 - kit from 1956.  Is it conceivable that the instructions don't match the kit? 

Sumter, do you have a kit number - preferably from the box rather than the instruction sheet?  We could look up the number in Dr. Graham's book.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    October 2010
Posted by sumter III on Sunday, October 31, 2010 10:51 AM

Correction on date, instructions are from 1969

Kit number is H-362-380

I have attached photo link so you can get a better idea of the kit.

Thanks for the help!

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/sumterIII/USS%20Constitution/DSCF0947.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/sumterIII/USS%20Constitution/DSCF0948.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/sumterIII/USS%20Constitution/DSCF0949.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/sumterIII/USS%20Constitution/DSCF0950.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/sumterIII/USS%20Constitution/DSCF0951.jpg

  • Member since
    October 2010
Posted by sumter III on Sunday, October 31, 2010 10:58 AM

Along with this kit I also have the Thermopylae, which the box says is 24 inches.  Both boxes are the same size.  Do you think a 5mm block would work?


  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Sunday, October 31, 2010 11:08 AM

John,

I would love to find that book!

Bill

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, October 31, 2010 11:53 AM

Mystery solved.  The kit number (H-362) establishes that this is indeed the "Simplified Series" kit, which Dr. Graham says is on 1/159 scale.  I've questioned a few of the figures on sailing ship scales in the book, but that one certainly seems about right.

I'm afraid there's no simple answer to the question about blocks.  A real ship of that nature has hundreds of blocks in its rigging - in dozens of different sizes.  In 1/159 scale, 5 mm translates into about 32 inches.  A block that's 32 inches long is an enormous one, but such things do exist.  (More typical blocks in the running rigging of an eighteenth-century warship would be between 6 and 12 inches long.) 

How much rigging to include on a model like this one is, of course, entirely up to the builder.  The rigging diagrams on the instructions are highly simplified - like the rest of the kit.  To include all, or even most, of the rigging of an eighteenth-century frigate on a model like that would be an enormous project - and frankly I question whether, in view of the "simplified" nature of the kit, it would make much sense.  The kit was designed for newcomers to the hobby.  If you're in that category, my suggestion is to build it "out of the box" and enjoy it.

Bill, Dr. Graham's book on Revell is readily available:  http://productsearch.barnesandnoble.com/search/results.aspx?WRD=Remembering+Revell+Model+Kits .

So is his history of Monogram, which I also recommend highly (though Monogram has never been a big player in the ship model game):  http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Monogram-Models/Thomas-Graham/e/9780764324819/?itm=1&USRI=monogram+models .  (Note the bargain prices from the Barnes and Noble "used and out of print dealer network.")

Dr. Graham's first book in the field, I believe, was the one about Aurora, which has been reprinted recently:  http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Aurora-Model-Kits/Thomas-Graham/e/9780764325182/?itm=1&USRI=thomas+graham+aurora .  I'm about to order a copy.

And if you're interested in such things, another one to pick up is Arthur Ward's latest history of Airfix:  http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Boys-Book-of-Airfix/Arthur-Ward/e/9780091928988/?itm=1&USRI=boy%27s+book+of+airfix .  I'm not sure I care for the implications of the subtitle, and some of the information in the appendix is a little sketchy, but it's a fascinating book.

I wish somebody would write a history of Lindberg - preferably terminating the story before the company's current fiasco, the less said about which the better.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    October 2010
Posted by sumter III on Sunday, October 31, 2010 12:42 PM

Thanks jtilley

I had some doubts about going full rig on this ship, your suggestion to build out of box seems more plausible.  Maybe i will use it as a teaching tool for my grandson. Still not a bad kit for free.  I got both these old kits along with the HMS Victory from one of our club members.

Thanks for the links and the research effort YesBeer

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Tampa, Florida, USA
Posted by steves on Sunday, October 31, 2010 12:49 PM

The first Revell Constitution model is often said to be1/192 or 1/196 scale, but I believe is actually much smaller.  The length between perpendiculars of the real ship is usually given as 175'.  On the model, this measures about 10.2", which works out to about 1/206 scale.  On the 1/96 Constitution kit this same dimension measures out to about 21-5/8"

Steve Sobieralski, Tampa Bay Ship Model Society

  • Member since
    October 2010
Posted by sumter III on Monday, November 1, 2010 9:07 AM

Revell must have included the bowsprit in the overall length.  If that is the case the scale does in fact fall within the 1/159 area for this kit.  The oveall length without the bowsprit was 204 feet.  The waterline length was 175.   I have not measured the hull but just by looking at it in the box it is in no way 22 inches long.

scale conversion calculator link

http://www.csgnetwork.com/modconscalecalc.html

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Monday, November 1, 2010 9:20 AM

John,

Thank you for the links!  However, I was being somewhat "tongue-in-cheek" given your frequent and welcome references to Professor Graham's book.  I knew the scale was somewhere around the 1/144-1/150 range but I am sceptical about Revell's statements of scale; the hull seems somewhat too large to be 1/159.

Bill

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Tampa, Florida, USA
Posted by steves on Monday, November 1, 2010 11:11 AM

sumter III

 I have not measured the hull but just by looking at it in the box it is in no way 22 inches long.

Nor should it be.  The two kits I was referring to are the small and large Revell Constitution kits.  Yours is apparently the mid-sized one.

Steve Sobieralski, Tampa Bay Ship Model Society

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