Frigate United States

Blessed be thy name amongst modelers for doing that.

I did get to see the Constitution today (finished work early) and toured its Museum as well.  Lots of tourists.  At least I got to see the Hercules carving and learned that someone named Leonard or Lloyd McGaffey (?) from the Boston area did the carving.  Sorry, I'm getting old and have been getting frequent senior moments lately.

I saw one of the Connie models had the same window design as the Revell kit, and, as I had said before, the window panes were not as long as the Revell copy.  They appear to be wider shutters (if thats what they were) or that at least there was more space between the windows.  I think I will follow that route when I get back home.  Unfortunately, there were no paintings of what she may have looked like when first launched (with railings).

Loved it up here.  So many museums with many nautical displays - no time to see them.

Thanks for the come back and thanks for posting those pictures - you handsome devil you.

Blue Jay -

The gallery windows will be a never ending struggle to find the truth... I think the panes were simplified for expediency on the Hull model and probably looked more akin to what we see on the paintings commissioned by Isaac Hull:

Six panes at least...

The number of gallery windows is not firm either... Michel Felice Cornè shows five in this painting, while the Hull model (and Revell) has six.  I've seen as many as eight on paintings.  The restored ship has three... Ugh!

That guy who posted the Hull model and Old Ironside visits was brilliant, insightful, and handsome... Okay... It was me.  I was in Boston a few weeks back and was glad I made the effort to visit the PEM and the great ship.  I'm sorry you had lousy timing and couldn't see them firsthand.  The PEM also has the great Michel Felice Cornè Guerriere battle paintings... I'll try to set up a post to show off more pictures...

My problems with the windows is primarily with the size of the middle one.  The window panes appear to be too long/wide/big for that period.  When you look at the size of of window panes on other ships of the period, you see as many as nine panes per window.  The kit's panes would be equal to roughly 3 feet or more.  We know from pictures of the Hull Model and comments made by  those who have gone to the Peabody Museum, Salem, MA to view it (see preivous posts on this model), that there were some things left out, i.e. the wheels on the gun carriages.  And thats okay, they did not have all of the fine tools we have to work with in our day.  So I wonder if the maker of the model forgot to include the panes for the windows or did not have the time to make them.

It coulod also be that the gallery on the Revell model is too long.  I need to pull ou my Connie plans determine the size of the original gallery.  Then go back to the Revell model and get a better idea of how big their glass panes would be in actual life.

Nice hearing from you folks.  By the way, I'm up here in the Boston area on a job assignment and decided to go by the Peabody (pronounced Pea bah dee by the locals I talked to) Museum to pay my respects to the Hull Model, and wouldn't you know it - its closed on Mondays.  So I decided to go see the Constitution at the Charleston Navy Yard and guess what - its close Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesday.  I go home Wednesday.  UGH !   

Welcome.  I also started building model ships when I was twelve (I had built model airplanes for about six years before that).  That was 61 years ago for me, so I have a few years on you.  My first kit was by Guillows (yes, they offered a couple of ships in addition to their many airplane models).  It was a "revenue cutter."

There are a few pretty good kits still out there.  The newest Model Shipways kits are quite good- those designed in modern times rather than the ones ME inherited.  Some of the Midwest kits, though generic models of small craft, are pretty good also- certainly easy to build with excellent instructions, so the newcomer can build one with confidence, and the old hand can use them as a basis for many  mods and conversions.

Blue Jay

So having said all that, I would like to close by saying that I would appreciate your comments on (1) the Gallery windows of the Revell Constitution model (they seem to be out of joint when compared with the Hull model), and (2) the appearance of the United States when first built with rails.  For example, were there pin rails built on to those rails for the sail rigging.  

If that's not enough for you, I'm of the opinion that the ship had several looks during its life and that by the end of its life, the "upper" galleries may have been removed and the lower ones remained (as we see in some paintings), but that the Roundhouse and Poop Deck always remained in place.

Hello Blue Jay...

I'm not sure what you mean on your first question... I think the Revell 1/96 galleries are based on the George Campbell plans that were utilized on a model in the Smithsonian... Those plans, I understand, were a refinement of the Hull model.  The Hull model is a bit primitive in some respects and I don't think all of the details can be taken as gospel - even though the crew built it.

The USS United States should make a great project - particularly if you're after her "just launched" appearance.  I'm no academic and my opinions are just that, however, I would think her original appearance would have been fairly understated and would not have included the double (over and under) galleries...  I've seen that represented in an 1840s era Currier & Ives print of the Macedonian battle, but I suspect that was a later mod that was blindly used as the model for their print.  At the time of her launch congress was still arguing over the naval expenditures and various cost overruns... It was probably tough enough to include the roundhouse/poop deck treatment under the circumstances and I suspect it would've taken some serious huevos to include anything too elaborate.  This build was also supervised by Joshua Humphries himself, and I would think his Quaker sensibilities would've dictated something very clean and spare.  I think the Revell adaptation of their 1/96 kit to represent the United States missed the mark - seems to have followed the suspicious Currier & Ives print.

If I were modeling her, I'd modify the Constitution kit to include the roundhouse with a wooden railing (not too heavy - the Chappelle drawings would be the baseline) and keep the single galleries.  Perhaps some window treatment in the spar deck gun ports that are overbuilt in the roundhouse with some sort of skylight on the poop.  Again - no academic foundation whatsoever...

I'd use the Thomas Birch painting for a guide and match her to the Macedonian battle period:

Black hull with the thin red stripes running across the top and bottom edges of the gun ports.