Airfix HMS Shannon - Need Some Measurements

Hi Rob,

The following website lists the scale as 1:450.

http://bayareayards.virtualscratchbuilder.com/partsbox.html

The Shannon was a Leda-class frigate. Two frigates survive to this day from the time, the HMS Trincomalee http://www.hms-trincomalee.co.uk/historic/leda/the-leda-class-frigate.php and the HMS Unicorn http://www.frigateunicorn.org/. Both list the keels at ~125 ft, with a gun deck length of 150 ft.

Scale should be fairly easy to figure out. Break out a ruler and measure the model at the keel. Divide 1500 inches (the length of the 125-ft  keel in inches) by the length of the model's keel in inches. for a 1:450 scale, the keel would therefore be ~3.33 inches.

USF Chesapeake was nearly identical in length to the Shannon, while USF Constitution is 150 ft, or 1800 inches at the keel, ~25 ft longer. So a similarly scaled Chesapeake would be ~3.33 inches, the same length as the Shannon, and the Constitution would be about 4 inches long at the keel. Hope this helps.

Best regards,

Jose Gonzales

Rob,

I have the HMS Shannon kit.  The keel is 3 3/4" long: the deck is 7/8" at the widest point.  Interestingly, the package does not state a scale.

Bill Morrison

Thanks for the replies.

Based upon the measurements provided by Bill, the model is 1/401, based upon the keel alone. The scale of the Lindberg Constitution is debatable, but I doubt it is an even 1/450. If that kit is approximately the same size as the Shannon, then we have a project. I had the old Lindberg release in the early 1990's, but built it up as - brace yourselves - the HMS Rose. It was cut to waterline and all the detail removed. That project yielded a passable model. I have a copy of Chapelle's "The History of the American Sailing Navy" in route to assist. 

I suppose the next question should be if anyone has that little Constitution kit! 

Cheers,

Rob

The Airfix Tribute guys didn't seem to know.

I find using the lengths to be notoriously inaccurate because there are so many.

I usually use the beam. In this case Wiki list the beam as 40 feet, if the model is 7/8" the scale is about 1/550.

Hello Bondoman,

I belong to the Unofficial Airfix Forum, but haven't asked them. The width of the deck isn't the beam of the full model; I thought I had the measurements for the beam on deck around here for Leda class, but I doubt the accuracy considering the vintage of the kit. I usually rely on either length of keel or on deck. Since the model will no doubt be built to waterline, chances are if the deck falls a little narrow, it will be replaced. Remember, I treat plastic models most viciously. 

True, true. And, who the heck knows if the kit is accurate?

It's a moment to reflect a little too. All this business about scale is newish to me. I modeled for a dozen years as a kid and during the era of this model. Didn't know much to nothing abt scale until I went to Architecture school.

I actually became aware of scale when I started building a collection of WWII aircraft as a lad in 1977. I picked up the Nichimo 1/65 Fw-190 for a buck at the local hobby shop. I also picked up the Revell Fw-190 in 1/72. Putting the two side by side I understood once and for all why scale mattered!

In this case, though, I want to do a small diorama, something I haven't done in years (and here I am, with three ships awaiting completion...). My original plan was for a small Constitution diorama, using either the Lindberg/Pyro/et al kit or the Gowland kit. But as I already have a couple of Constitution models, the Shannon model created new possibilities. 

I am leaning more towards the Shannon vs. Chesapeake idea. I will settle for their scales being "close enough".

Rob,

I also have the Life-Like version of the USS Constitution.  The keel measures 4": HMS Shannon is 1/4" smaller in length.  Side by side, they certainly have the look of compatibility.  I think that it would be a wonderful diorama!

Bill

Hmm. Keel for the Chesapeake is 127' 5". That said, she works out to around 1/382, very close to my old scale of 1/384, but comfortably within scale range, allowing for a modest deviation.

This will work.

Thanks!

Do you have the kits?  If not, I can let you have them.  I do not plan on building them.

Bill

I could certainly use them! I have an extended search on eBay (both US and internationally) for the Shannon; there was a period a year or so back when dozens seem to pop up there. Now, the last one was the original bagged (and waterline) model, and of course it went for a song... just a very expensive one.

PM me so we can work out the details, and I will certainly give credit when the project commences!

If you  want to have a go at really going to town on HMS Shannon, or any frigate of the period for that matter, you will find 'Frigates of the Napoleonic Wars' by Robert Gardiner both fascinating and really useful reference. Unlike a lot of book on the subject, it is currently in print and available in cheap paperback too!!

good luck. Think I'd be tempted to start from scratch at this scale, especially for a waterline model.

Will

Billyboy

Think I'd be tempted to start from scratch at this scale, especially for a waterline model.

Will

Thanks, Will; I've seen Gardner's book, and since I am really just in the initial planning stages here, it will probably be finding a space on the shelf as well (I like my books the old fashioned way; physical). As to scratch building, no stranger there. But, I'm also a silly lad in that I take a particular pleasure with seeing what can be done with some of these kits. For instance, converting the larger Lindberg (or, for that matter, larger Revell, or both Heller) "Guillen" version of the Santa Maria and adding the modification necessary to make it look like Martinez-Hidalgo's version (which is probably closer). Or breathing life into old kits. Scratch building is certainly easier at times, but I sometimes prefer the chase. Besides, chances are pretty good that, especially with regards to the Constitution -> Chesapeake conversion, only the hull above waterline will remain, and even then, greatly modified.

This will probably not be starting soon, but once it does, I will definitely post here.

Cheers,

Rob

The models have arrived, and it looks like I have my work cut out for me (by the way, thanks, Bill). I am looking to do a critique of both models before commencing. Based upon the actual 1st June, 1813 battle, the distance between the two models should be enough that the Chesapeake (converted from the smaller scale Constitution) should not be so overwhelming compared to the Shannon. In reality, the Chesapeake was slightly larger, with 200 tons on the Shannon, but the lengths were a little bit closer. Putting a little distance between them should help disguise that (looking at just over 4" in the diorama; this would be after the opening rounds from both vessels). 

As I said before, this promises to be fun. Work, yes, but fun. It just won't be starting soon enough...

Cheers,

Rob

I for one will be content to wait because this sounds like a cracking project.

Something else I'd recommend to read (well, look at the glorious pitcures...) is 'The Naval war of 1812' edited by Robert Gardiner and one in a superb volume of books on the 1793-1815 period based on the collections of the nation maritime museum. The emphasis is on previously unpublished contemporary documents including lines drawings, engravings, cartoons, letters and so on. 

fascinating stuff and might inspire your diorama composition.

http://www.amazon.com/Naval-1812-Chatham-Pictorial-Histories/dp/155750654X/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1310925394&sr=8-11

Will

Thus go the best laid plans...

The Airfix Shannon measures closer to 1/450, which means that the planned conversion of the Constitution to the Chesapeake (which, by the way, was very doable) cannot proceed, as it would result in a scale difference that is too great; normally, I try to avoid anything greater than a 10% deviation, and this is going into greater than 12%. 

There are still possibilities, however. I could always scratchbuild a Chesapeake, or, shudder, convert a hard to find Gowland Constitution kit. 

Then there is the event from July 1812 when the Shannon, as well as a squadron under the command of Broke, pursued the Constitution along the American coast. 

Not giving up, just may need to re-approach this somewhat.

Why don't you build a shadow box and control the perspective? I've put Z scale 1:220 cars and people in the background on my N scale 1:160 model railroad.

Where are you gonna press gang the crews from?

I thought about that, and am still trying to decide here (the more I think about the Constitution with crews in the ships boats pulling the frigate with the Shannon somewhat astern is appealing). Tom's Modelworks makes PE crew in 1/400 and 1/500, probably going with the former as they look a little small. Certainly easier and faster than using the old glue and wire technique I used on my 1/384 models (tip of the hat to the late Derek Hunnisett).