Life Color USN Blues: Any good?

I've been on a quest for the best water based acrylics for a year because I'm around enough solvents with weathering and brush cleaning. (Let's face it, if you want your tip cleaned out, lacquer thinner is hard to beat.) And the "solvent based" acrylics like Gunze and Tamiya - no matter the undoubted quality of both brands - are suspended with some pretty strong stuff.

I was going to wait until I did a kit with this stuff for a full report, but anyone used to hand brushing enamels might want to look at Revell Aqua Color acrylics which come from Revell Germany. Aqua colors are water based and have almost no smell and are thinned with water (very little) or their own brand of thinner which I'd guess is very closely related to an acrylic artist medium called "Flow Aid." They claim the paint is "self leveling" and leaves no brush marks. I just hand painted an old Zero tail and can say that you can see the brush strokes but they are very faint and I'm not a good hand painter. It seems to cover very well. Anyway, this is the most benign model paint I've encountered. You could equal it with artist acrylics if you were willing to learn how to use the mediums - if you do, you've got a terrific paint. (Someone on this thread claims good results with Dreamcoat and Apple Barrel which are inexpensive and so "user friendly" you could probably drink it without problem - not testifying about the flavor.) Problem is that it is only available in Europe, but that includes many places in the UK. I order from the UK all the time and prices are reasonable (we aren't hit with their nasty VAT tax) and delivery (usually) prompt. Details on Revell Germany's page http://www.revell.de/index.php?id=287&L=1. 

Eric

*raises hand* I am not a color-nazi either, leaning heavily towards the close-enough-is-good-enough school of modeling (remember, it's a hobby, not nuclear physics or bomb disposal). So, for me, what comes out of the bottle or can is what's going to go on the model. Neither do I own an airbrush, which further reduces my options. Oh, well.

But I, too, am starting to wean myself away from enamels simply because I enjoy the momentary feelings of What the #($*&#???? and vertigo when brushing on enamels less and less as I age. So I mourn the demise of the Model Master naval acrylics (but understand why they did it), and Polyscale acrylics, and use WEM enamels in short bursts for as long as I can hold my breath.

My Dad was in the Merchant Marine in WW II. They painted horizontal surfaces by kicking over a 5-gallon bucket of whatever shade of lead-based gray paint and working as fast as possible to spread it out. Vertical surfaces they could reach were hand brushed. Big vertical surfaces like the sides of the ships were painted with spray guns, and afterwards they would wash each other down with kerosene or turpentine to get the lead-based paint off, and clean their clothes in lead-based gasoline to get the paint out  ... since he also worked in the engine room at times, I am sometimes amazed he is still alive.

1. In general I'm not a color realism fanatic, but I'd say there are maybe ten kind of tricky colors that you should have right. The USN Deck/NavyBlue/Haze Grey would be on the list. (Might add RAL 7001 to that list, wish I had a good one when I started Konig.) Anyway, I did not think it a waste to buy White ensign's enamels of those colors even though I probably won't ever paint a kit with them. (Of course I do have a 700 scale Sterett - couldn't take that long painting.) But I've used them to make my own patches and they beat the devil out of any computer generated color chart.

2. John: been having great fun checking out your stuff on Amazon. Just so happens that you have done some kits in my stash - M-8, Revell Priest, the Sherman of your choice and I'd guess the Tamiya Tiger I Afrika and the old Tamiya Panther. Will consult them all when build time comes. I've got two immediate armor objectives: one is a desert tank, one is a winter tank. I like your use of snow and foliage. (I'm going to learn about dried flowers: you look at photos from Europe in 44-45 and everybody's AFVs looked like trees on wheels. And modelers rarely try to emulate that.) And I see you're a Tamiya fan. I am not knocking Dragon (I've got about 6 of their kits unbuilt including the Alamein Sherman which will probably be my next AFV), but I still think you could make a rational argument that Tamiya on a good day makes kits as well or better than anyone on the market. I've never tried Creamcoat paints: you're right that there is a large color selection. But Golden and Liquitex set a very high bar. Worth a try regardless and for some colors paint is probably paint. Thanks for the tips.

Eric

johncpo

And to the detractor in this string I might mention that it is with many years of painting with enamels that the effect on me was overwhelming, not to mention my service in the Navy using god-forsaken lead based paint, suffering the consequences at this point in time. As I mentioned I know first hand Deck Grey, Battleship Gray and yes non-skid Grey, all too well.

If you're talking about me when you say "detractor" then I think you miss-understood me. I said nothing about enamels, I merely said that online color charts were not a good option for people who care about color fidelity, regardless of what paint is used. I also specifically said there was nothing wrong with NOT caring as this is a hobby and different people enjoy it in different ways. Some builders just want to put things together even without paint; who are any of us to say that's the wrong way to enjoy the hobby? Like wise, if someone does care to try and exactly match colors, does anyone have the right to tell them they're wrong in how they enjoy their hobby?

Eric,

My article on FSM is about making sandbags and is in the Tips Database.

Two additional articles are under my name on Armorama in Features, one focuuses on the M8 Greyhound and the second on a 105mm Howitzer diorama under "We Got You Covered"

Next if you access Amazon. com by going to the Tamiya Military Jeep you can access my profile and over 100 photos in the gallery available, additionally I send in reviews concerning all the aspects of the plastic model hobbies and techniques that I have used over the years, such as all water based paints as mentioned.

 By the way, any of the painting I have done since the '80s has been with the brands I mentioned and the repeat of success with every type of surface proved itself time and time again. If there is a question about the chemisty of paints I can fill in those questions, my father was a research scientist with Eastman Kodak for almost 40 years, with a Ph.D in chemistry, I was taught the science of paints and ink over many years as the improvements came along. Additionally all the paints I mentioned were for the coloring of pottery and it was quite an experiement to use them on of all things plastic models, now I use nothing else. And to the detractor in this string I might mention that it is with many years of painting with enamels that the effect on me was overwhelming, not to mention my service in the Navy using god-forsaken lead based paint, suffering the consequences at this point in time. As I mentioned I know first hand Deck Grey, Battleship Gray and yes non-skid Grey, all too well.

Thank you,

John M. Staehle, Chief Gunner's Mate, USN

Tracy White

 

johncpo:

Additionally download a color chart to match the colors as all three greys are different shades as I know so well of.

 

Not so fast! This is only a viable option if you don't care about color fidelity as each screen and each printer will produce different colors from the same source!

And a lot of the vendors now invisibly second source overseas, after all it's only a data share site away. So I get a lot of crap. I suspect that hobby paints are the same.

EBergerud

But as I recall it was maybe Tracy that said in the USN ships carried around big tubs a small number of paints and mixed em up when needed.

Some they did, and some they didn't; "vertical" paints such as the Navy Blue or Ocean gray were mixed to a ratio from two parts, but the deck paints such as deck blue or flight deck stain were pre-mixed.

What name should we use to check your articles and work?

Eric

Tracy, I hear you. I've got cans of White Ensign deck blue, navy blue and haze grey to use as color patches. I just don't want to do a whole model in enamels. (I suppose then you'd use acrylics for the washes etc.)

Certainly also hear John. About a year ago I got in touch with Golden - the folks that invented quality artist acrylics in the 50s and asked about models. One of their gurus was tremendously helpful. I've got about ten colors, although as you point out once you learn mixing you can close to anything. (Still looking for that perfect chromatic black: payne's grey is the closest I've got and they have that.) The Golden guy discouraged using model solvents and gave thumbs up on some of the "mediums" developed by all the acrylic companies to accompany their wares. The idea, or so I was told, was that the artist acrylic is pigment mixed with a semi-soft polymer of some kind: completely vanilla. (Although fine for use on paper or canvas right there.) He said too much alcohol or water would break down the molecular structure of the paint - 25% kind of the max. Instead he recommended GAC 200 (paint hardener), Flow Aid which does indeed give a smoother coat hand or airbrush, retarder (drops) airbrush medium (white but dries invisibly: Vallejos gloss is also white) and airbrush extender just for luck. I was really impressed with the results and have done a number of kits with Golden alone. Very good paint to lay down very thin at low PSI. I've also found out these mediums work really well with water based modeling paints like Vallejo - some work nicely with MM and Tamiya. Works perfect with Coat d'Arms or Citadel. But I'm really interested to hear about your experiences and will certainly check your leads. There are just a few colors that I'd like to get right: the USN blues and greys are in there. Aside from that, before talking with Golden, I stockpiled a pretty good supply of Vallejo, Tamiya and Polly Scale. Gotta use them too. BTW: all of these mediums are very cheap considering the volumes as are the paints. I do quibble with Apple Barrel being as good as Golden, Liquitex or some of the other heavyweights: if you check Apple vs Golden one thing you won't find is a description of the pigments. Might not make much difference for some colors, but a series IV Golden (which might cost 3 times what a series 1 would) explodes when you mix it the pigments are so rich. Quality oils are the same way. And everything is cheap relative to volume. I've tried to talk Golden into coming up with formulas for maybe 20 or so of the modeler's basics (Panzer Colors, RLM basics, RAF stuff, Olive Drab etc.) Who knows.

But as I recall it was maybe Tracy that said in the USN ships carried around big tubs a small number of paints and mixed em up when needed.

Thanks

Eric

johncpo

Additionally download a color chart to match the colors as all three greys are different shades as I know so well of.

Not so fast! This is only a viable option if you don't care about color fidelity as each screen and each printer will produce different colors from the same source! I'm not saying it's wrong to do this, but please go into it with your eyes open. If you do want to mix your own paints then I would suggest getting a set of US Navy Paint Chips from Snyder & Short, aka ShipCamouflage.com:

USN Set 1

USN Set 2

Eric, Save yourself tons of money, go to Michaels, Hobby Lobby or stores that sell acrylic craft paint in 2 oz squeeze plastic bottles with flip top lids. There are hundreds of these at Hobby Lobby as I have a whole drawer full. All colors in the lines of Apple Barrel, Creamcoat and the rest all match all military and railroad colors. They mix with water, Isopropyl alcohol and even blue tinted windshield wiper fluid. For handbrushing use straight or with the smallest amount of water.  The airbrushing ratio depends on pressure, you should start with about 50/50 @ 30psi if you are set up with an AB. Additionally download a color chart to match the colors as all three greys are different shades as I know so well of. Navy vet of 24 years on two modern ships and Brown water small craft, that's jungle green! Let me know how it turns out.

I have two articles at Armorama.com, one here on FSM and an extensive photo gallery on Amazon.com

The best,

johncpo