Euterpe or "Star of India"

1943Mike

I guess private messages are not included as an option on this site.

I always have a George Carlin moment there....

"Model guys talk"

"Finescale modelers have a conversation!"

Bill,

Thanks for the explanation. I guess I'm a little thick when it comes to the whole concept of how one goes about making realistic detail in modeling but I'll catch on eventually.

I really think this thread should be put to rest but I could not see a way to PM you. I guess private messages are not included as an option on this site. Anyway, thanks to all who responded to my initial and subsequent inquiries in this thread. I am grateful to you all for your generous sharing of knowledge.

Mike S.

Mike,

I cut plastic strip to match the size of the plate detail as that above the waterline and cemented them into place after sanding them to a wafer-like thinness.  Cutting copper tape to the appropriate matching size would be easy as well.  I simply wanted to match the detail appropriately.

Bill

Bill,

Would the steel plating of the Preussen's hull have been the same size as is modeled on the copper tape or copper plating that is sold in hobby stores? In fact might a smooth painted hull under the waterline be reasonable or do we know what size the plates were and would it be worthwhile to depict them?

Mike S.  

John,

My apologies for not being clear.  I was not referring to copper plating but rather hull plating.  The hull above the waterline on these models is well detailed showing the steel plates used in the basic hull construction; the hull below the waterline is perfectly smooth showing no plating detail whatsoever.

Sorry for the misunderstanding!

Bill

Don Stauffer

 

 

 

Good spray can work can do a metal hull look.

1943Mike

Bondoman,

I'll do a little reading regarding the steel plating. As far as painting is concerned, I'll not be buying an airbrush but I'll do my best to depict the hull as I imagine it might have looked with the paint brushes I have and whatever techniques I find to use on modeling sites.

Thanks for the reminder about the Muntz Metal on the CS.

Mike S.

Good spray can work can do a metal hull look.

Bondoman,

I'll do a little reading regarding the steel plating. As far as painting is concerned, I'll not be buying an airbrush but I'll do my best to depict the hull as I imagine it might have looked with the paint brushes I have and whatever techniques I find to use on modeling sites.

Thanks for the reminder about the Muntz Metal on the CS.

Mike S.

John Tilley - Thanks for the reminder about the steel hull on the Preussen. I also appreciate the reference to both books. Considering what a lengthy project the Preussen will be for me I will probably look for both books when I approach my build of the windjammer.

Mike S.

The place to buy copper tape for ships that have it is the stained glass suppliers. I like one called "anything in stained glass"

http://www.anythinginstainedglass.com/metals/foil.html

The Cutty Sark was Muntz Metal, a copper/ zinc alloy that looks like yellow brass when it is fresh.

I would think that steel plating below the waterline on a big steel ship like the Preussen would follow general steel hull design principles and be BIG. A good way to show that kind of detail is to selectively mask off areas and paint them different shades of the basic anti fouling paint. Here's where an airbrush comes in handy in ship modeling.

I'm sure Bill is as aware of this as I am, but the hull of the Preussen was not copper sheathed.  Two reasons.  First, by the time she was built, in the early twentieth century, anti-fouling paint had been perfected to the extent that it was more effective than copper sheathing.  Second, her hull was made of steel, which is just as resistant to marine life as copper (probably more so). 

To be really accurate, the hull below the waterline should have indications of the edges of the steel hull plates on it.  I don't remember whether the Heller kit shows the plating above the waterline or not; in any case, the above- and below-waterline portions should look the same except for color.  Maybe Bill's suggestion was intended to imply using copper tape or sheet styrene as the basis for a coat of red paint; come to think of it, I guess that would work - but it wouldn't be easy.  The compound curves of such a ship's underwater hull are pretty hard to cover with such materials, and getting the layout of the plates on the port and starboard sides would, I suspect, be even tougher. 

I've never built a sailing ship of that period, and it's been a long time since I've read much about such vessels.  My recollection (which may well be defective) is that the big German windjammers generally were painted in a two-tone scheme below the waterline:  dark, slighly rusty red for the ship's bottom, and a broad band of dull pink (yes, pink) from the waterline itself to several feet above and below it.  I'm anxious to be corrected if my memory on that point is wrong.

If I were building such a model the first two sources I'd read would be a pair of books by Harold Underhill:  Deep Water Sail  for the basic characteristics (including color schemes) and Masting and Rigging:  The Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier for the spars and rigging. 

Regarding the Star of India - I agree that she would make a beautiful model and a good subject for a plastic kit.  Unfortunately, though, the number of plastic sailing ships is, compared to the coverage of aircraft, tanks, and even twentieth-century warships, almost microscopic.  The number of attractive and important sailing ship subjects covered by the plastic kit manufacturers is far, far exceeded by the number that haven't. 

Bill,

I just paid $113.66 including shipping for the Preussen. I must be nuts to shell out that kind of $ with my limited fixed retirement income but I figure it'll get me through another Oregon winter after I've built the Cutty Sark. Megahobby responded to my inquiry as to whether the kit was complete and undamaged with the following: "Hi its new and sealed. thanks!"  So I'm now assuming that there's no serious damage to the parts. I'll see.

Thanks for the tip about the lack of plating below the waterline. Which is easier and most realistic, plastic strip or copper tape and where do I get either?

Mike S.

Mike,

The Preussen is a nice kit and I would snap it up.  I have the Cap Horn; I modified it to represent the five-masted steel-hulled barque Potosi.  That kit is based on the Preussen.  Both ships came from the famous German P-Line and were near sisters.  It does indeed measure about 38".  One of the pitfalls with the kit is that there is no plating detail below the waterline, but this is an easy fix using either plastic strip or copper tape.

Someone mentioned the Lindbergh kit of the Joseph Conrad . . . thanks for that reminder.  I had forgotten it.

Bill

Rod,

Thanks for the reply.

I don't see it anywhere (the Preussen) for under $114 USD. I guess I'll just keep it in the back of my mind and check out some garage sales here in Salem, Oregon over the winter.

I really don't have any particular ship in mind for my "stash" (I'll be working on the Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark over the winter/spring/summer/fall/winter/spring?) except I really like the sailing ships of the late 18th, the 19th, and early 20th centuries. I really don't want anything too small for my old eyes and finger coordination so anything in the 1/150 or larger would be nice. On this site I've seen recommendations for the whaler Charles W. Morgan in 1/110 scale so I may try that as my third ship.

Thanks again,

Mike

Mike

    The Preussen is a good kit . You need to do a little extra on it to make it a great model. That cost to me is high. I wouldn't go over $75.00. Bill was talking about the Joseph Conrad. There is a plastic kit of that ship. Lindberg was the model company that produced it. I believe it was and old Pyro mold.

Rod

Bill,

Thanks for the info.

RE: "Preussen": I noticed that there's a Heller kit on some hobby sites and on Amazon and eBay for a 1/150 scale model of the aforementioned. Can you (or anyone) comment on how good it is? I took French in high school and college but have forgotten 99% of what little I learned - do the instructions come in English? It would seem that, at 480 feet overall, the kit would represent the ship at around 38" overall. Am I correct in this assessment? It is going for anywhere from $115.00 to $136.00 that I was quickly able to see on the Internet. Is that a fair price for this model?

Sorry for all the additional questions.

Mike

Mike,

I know of no model kit depicting the "Star" line of windjammers.  There are two such ships left (the Star of India, and the Star of Alaska (ne: Balclutha) in SF.  There is an existing windjammer in Mystic Seaport (Joseph Conrad) that the museum once manufactured a plank-on-bulkhead kit for. Otherwise, the only kits of these ships are the Pamir, Alexander Humbolt, Preussen, and the fictional Cap Horn by Heller.

Bill