Aurora Corsair - True scale of this kit?

Adrian:

Thanks for posting the pictures.

I compared the Corsair to the illustrations in Chapelle's "History of American Sailing Ships" and the kit looks very close.  Including the ruler was a great idea, I estimated that the kit was about 8 7/8" on the waterline and using Chapelle's estimate of 107'6" for the Prince, that works out to 12.1' per inch on the model or 1:145.2 - so I'm guessing that my estimate is off a bit and that the kit is 1:144, which would have been a good choice for a tool and die maker back in the day before CAD systems.

Chappelle kindly included a sailor on deck in one of his illustrations and his shoulders appear to be just over the bulwark and that tends to confirm the scale since your "tar" from the La Floire is too tall and his N scale counterpart is too small.

Chapelle suggests that the armament likely consisted of carronades with two long 18's as chase guns, so you might want to consider swapping out the forward carronades.

Good luck with the build!

Mike

Many Thanks for the replies, I appreciate it.

Sorry for the late response, I'm glad Mr. Tilley commented and reminded me about the thread. I got way to much to do and way too little time to do it, seems like time always gets away from me.

Bigb123 - Thanks, I'm not familiar with the Heller kit so I don't know if they are the same - I don't think they are tho.  And, I'm attaching pics to show the size differences I mentioned in my orginal post.

EdGrune - Thanks, I didn't even check Rajen's list.  I saw a write up on the kit listing it as 1/100 (epinnigers list maybe??) The 1/128 scale listing looks closer than the 1/100.

Carmike - Thanks, I did read somewhere that the Corsair was modeled after the Prince drawings.  I agree with you on Lindbergs scale discrepencies.  The Constellation kit is listed as 1/138 and it ain't nowhere close.  I do feel however that the scale on the La Flore / Jolly Roger is very close to 1/130.  Could be Lindberg got at least one right. (I would hope at least).  I don't have the Captain Kidd / Wappen von Hamburg to compare them but I was hoping the scales were the same - it's on my want list.

jtilley - Thanks, thats a great reference book.  I can't afford that right now but I'll check out the library to see if I can get a copy.

Thanks for the response, I appreciate it.

I took a few pics to do some comparisons.  This first pic is the boxing I scored.  There's no date on it but the instruction sheet says its 1959.

Contents of the box with assembled hull.  Parts are complete but the sails are kinda messed up.  I'm not using the sails so it's not a problem.

The assembled hull.  Lotta glue on them thar decks - (wasn't me, I swear!)

These pics show the differences between the scales.  Left figure is a 1/100 from my Constitution kit, middle is a 1/130 figure from my La Flore / Jolly Roger Kit.  Right figure is an N scale Woodland Scenics figure.

Corsair next to my La Flore / Jolly Roger build.

Corsair with My La Flore / Jolly Roger and HMS Bounty.  The Bounty is 90' long and Corsair is 110' long.  The scales look kinda close in this view.

Corsair with La Flore / JR and Lindbergs Sandpiper kit (very nice little kit BTW)

Thanks again, I appreciate the comments!!

Adrian

I haven't laid eyes on that old Aurora kit since the last time I built it, which was at least 40 years ago.  I'm not sure whether it matches the plans of the Prince de Neufchatel at all closely, but my recollection is that the general shape is about right.  My guess is that the Aurora designers worked from the plans in Howard Chapelle's History of American Sailing Ships, which was published in the 1930s and was for many years the standard reference work on the history of American naval architecture.

In the early sixties (several years after the kit was released), Chapelle published another book:  The Search for Speed Under Sail.  That one contains a much more detailed set of plans for the Prince de Neufchatel, drawn by Merrit Edson.  I think he drew them for a model the Smithsonian planned to commission - though I'm not sure whether that model ever got built.  If you want to build a model of the Prince de Neufchatel, the Edson plans are the ones to use.  (Used copies of The Search for Speed Under Sail are available for reasonable prices via the Web.  If you can, get a copy of the first edition, which has fold-out plans.)

Another extremely useful reference on this ship is Philip Reed's Period Ship Modeling:  An Illustrated Master Class.  (Here's a link:  http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/period-ship-modelmaking-philip-reed/1012787493?ean=9781591146759&itm=7&usri=philip+reed.)  In it, the author describes in detail how he built two models of the Prince de Neufchatel - one waterline, the other full-hull - on the scale of 1/16"=1'.  Be warned, though:  Mr. Reed is one of the finest ship modelers working today.  Looking at his work can be a humbling experience - at least it is for me.

The Aurora kit of the Corsair was based on the plans for an American privateer used in the war of 1812, the Prince de Neufchatel.  According to Chapelle (The History of American Fighting Ships), the "Prince" had an estimated length on the waterline of 107'6" so you can perform your own calculation. Wikipedia gives the dimensions as:

There's probably some more information about the Prince de Neufchatel on the web in the event that you want to try get closer to the prototype.

FYI, Although the "Jolly Roger" is advertised as 1:130, I'm usually skeptical about Lindberg's scale calculations.  They also advertise the Captain Kidd / Wappen von Hamburg as 1:130 and it is definitely smaller than that.    

Tnonk

I scored an old Aurora Corsair on ebay for 12 bucks.  It was partially assembled but unpainted and it was complete.

I've wanted this kit for quite a while but had not been able to get my hands on one.  I've read several reviews and posts on this kit and understood that the kit is generally considered to be 1/100 scale.

I have to admit I was surprised at how small the kit was when it arrived.  It is definitely NOT 1/100 scale, at least not according to my cursory appraisal with crew figures from both my 1/96 Constitution kit and my 1/130 Jolly Roger kit.

The Corsair is smaller than both of these and, although I don't know the actual dimensions of a typical ship of this type, the deck furniture, cannons, etc. are completely too small to be 1/100.  The lifeboat alone would be large enough for 1 man in 1/100.  The gunwales are less than waist high in 1/100 also.  

The scale comparison to 1/130 fares a bit better but still looks out of scale.  It compares favorably scale wise to my Lindberg/Pyro HMS Bounty at about 1/180 (I believe) but I'm not quite sure. My N scale railroad figures seem to be a close approximate.

Anyone out there have any idea as to the actual scale of the Corsair?

Thanks!

 

Adrian

According to Rajen's Kit List,  the Aurora Corsair was 1:128-ish.  The kit was originally issued in 1963 as the Privateer Corsair. 

The Heller Corsair is, I believe, the old Ideal Toy Company (ITC) Cornelius Vanderbilt's Corsair yacht.  It has also been re-released under the Glencoe & Kleeware labels

If it's the same kit as the Heller Corsair, then it is 1/150 scale.  Couldn't say for sure as I am not familiar with the Aurora Corsair.  Pics would help.