gearing class destroyer with FRAM I or II

Eugene Rowe

What is Fram and not the oil filter?

Just for grins, here is some additional info about FRAM:

It wasn't just a program for destroyers and ASW, it was a program for fleet rehabilitation and modernization to update hull and machinery on a bunch of WWII ships who were still the core of the fleet in the 1960s. 

A while ago I was studying the Navarro APA-215 (we modelers will be more familiar with sisters Revell's Montrose or Randall)to build a model for an old crewman.  Getting into Norman Friedman's US Amphibious Ships and Craft- Illustrated Design History.  He gave enough info about the FRAM remodel for some APAs that I could recognize the FRAM APA in a photo, and he also mentioned that a number of LSTs were updated in the FRAM II program, although I haven't looked very deeply into that topic.

Also, we are more generally aware of the Essex class ships converted to LPH (Valley Forge, etc) and I was surprised to learn that the three of them got FRAM II upgrades after they had been serving as LPH.

The internet seems pretty ignorant on this use of the term FRAM for anything other than destroyers, but I am inclined to believe Friedman with his description of the program.  He gives a more thorough description of FRAM in his US Destroyers book.  Certainly, on the waterfront when we said "there's an old FRAM", we were referring to destroyers, but I had expected a deeper set of knowledge to found on the 'net.

FRAM I was a more comprehensive program, intending to extend the ship's life by 8 years and FRAM II was designed to be cheaper, adding another 5 years to the ship's life.  (Ha!  Tell that to DD-743 Southerland, FRAM in 1964 and decomm in 1981)

Rick

Hi Steves:

         The Lighter colored one(The FRAM ship) Looks a wee bit short in the Bow. On the Port side a few feet forward of Midship was My D.C. Office. Just before you get to the ladder to the 01 deck! I actually had one of them roundy type winders! It was interesting duty and always, after FRAM especially, one hand for the ship, one for oneself!

          Although the new upperworks were Aluminum, because of the added width and the heighth of the New Stacks and Masts she rolled like a dumpling in a bowl of soup! And that was on a calm day!. She was a real B$%#* in heavy seas. We couldn't have launched anything off the flight deck even if we had ever gotten anything! Never did see that L.A.M.P.S. MiniCopter.

          She was as sound as they came and prior to FRAM she was a sweet Ship to handle in ANY weather, for a Destroyer. I spent two weeks on a Forrest Sherman Class(don't remember the name) and for some reason, the Ozzie, handled and rode so much better. One funny thing The Gearings threw such a Rooster tail at speed, more than one hand lost his britches, tied to a line and thrown over the stern!

Hi Bill:

        Can you imagine my surprise, getting off the bus on base at the pier and walking to my ship(Had to find her by Hull Number) and finding an All Gun, WW-2 Ship? Yeah, she was a Gearing alright, But looked like she just came up in time to the 60s. Not FRAMMed till later! Until I visually realized the difference, I thought she was an oversize Fletcher!

Built these a couple of years ago.  The ship is the USS Henderson DD785 as she was completed in 1945 and as she appeared 20 years later after FRAM.  The 1945 version was built from the Tehnoart kit, the FRAM version from the Iron Shipwrights kit, both in 1/192 scale and both, unfortunately, no longer in production.  Of the two, the Tehnoart kit was by far the superior, producing a near "museum quality" model out of the box.

Iron Shipwright makes some 1:350 resin & brass FRAM kits; Fletcher, Sumner, and Gearing. 

Or, like I recommended a decade ago, use some plans from the Historic Naval Ships Association and a selection of sheet styrene to scratch together a FRAM conversion for the Dragon Gearing kit.  It is all straight cuts and angles

It becomes a bit easier these days as a corrected MK37, ASROC launcher, and other armament are available as 3D printed items.   

I'm wondering is Steve (ModelMonkey) has (or plans to have) some FRAM conversion parts to print.

Thanks for explaining that!

Yep. Emergency stop gap to counter the Soviet submarine threat.

Bill

Eugene Rowe

What is Fram and not the oil filter!

 

Fleet Rehabilitation and Modernization. The rebuilding of old WW2 warships to be used for new purposes. In this case the old Gearing class from surface attack to anti sub.

What is Fram and not the oil filter!

This thread has been inactive for several years but I thought I'd add my 2 cents worth correcting one of the postings.  

Yes, the USS Kennedy DD-850 is a Gearing Fram I. However,  the USS Laffey DD-724 is a Sumner Fram II.  Easiest way to tell the difference is amidships.  The Gearing FRAM I's all have an ASROC launcher between the stacks and only have 2 - 5" gun mounts.  The Sumners do not have ASROC but do have 3 - 5" mounts (2 forward and 1 aft.)

I'm so desperate to model a Sumner class DD (USS Putnam DD-757 on which I served 5 years) that I purchased and am building the BlueJacket Shipcrafter's Gearing FRAM I kit modifiying it to be a Sumner.  Its a 1:192 scale and definitely not for novice builders.

I was in a recent discussion with Tracy White about Dragon producing further 1/350 destroyer kits, particularly a square-bridge Fletcher and a Charles Adams class ship.  He informed me that, unfortunately, Dragon is in a hiatus from any further new destroyers for awhile. I would love to have them produce a FRAM I or II Gearing and Sumner as well.

All joking aside, I love surface ships as well as submarines.  Submariners often feel a "kinship" with destroyer men because there are similarities between them.  Like submariners, destroyer men must develop a trust with each other. Both are arduous duty, and the small crew environment enables the crew to know every one onboard.

Anyway, let's hope that Dragon continues with their outstanding line of 1/350 destroyer kits!  I would appreciate Trumpeter doing so as well, so long as they improve upon the quality of their USS Sullivans.

Bill

OK Bill,

My nephew is a mechanical engineer. He told me the difference between a civil engineer and a mechanical engineer is that civil engineers build targets and mechanical engineers build weapons. He spent several years overhauling nuclear reactors for the Navy in Norfolk VA.

I'm simply joking about people not wanting any reference to certain diseases in their record. Believe me, I documented everything.

Aha ,

But when you needed proof of something for the V.A. It would've been nice if the info was there , right ?

I know a LOT of crewmen (officers, too) who were grateful for a little "lousy" record-keeping!  ; - )

AHA !

Someone remembered that there were P.M.s on a lot of ships . Definitely no doctor and some were LOUSY record keepers too !

Back in the dark ages we had PM, the HM were almost universally deployed with Marines.

Modern system simpler, if requiring remembering too many NEC.

Dr. Hu and Tanker,

I, too, am called "Doc" because of my naval service. In my case, though, I looked upon Destroyers as "targets". Funny about the Submarine Service . . . we acknowledge two types of ships, submarines and targets.   ; - )

I was the Hospital Corpsman onboard, hence, the "Doc" moniker.

Bill

Dr. Hu

Hi Tankerbuilder,  If I understand you correctly you were wondering about a FRAM destroyer still in existence. Wasn't the Joseph P Kennedy that is in Fall River Mass. with the USS Massachusetts a Gearing that was FRAMed? I was just told it was. I have been there twice but I really don't know the difference between a destroyer that was FRAMed and one that wasn't.

Just wondering

"Doc"

Okay , Norm ;

What is your full name and Rank ?  Never did join, because of some personal issues with some of my crew-mates from back then . When I left the OZZIE my career changed abrubptly . I got to go to college .graduated high in my class and went on to design many TANKERS and OIL - SPILL response vessels . Contact me on the E-mail part of this site , Okay ?    "DOC " P.S. There was one officer I really respected for his honesty and truthfulness . Was that you ?

Dr. Hu :

Funny how life is isn't it ?  I to am called - " DOC ". For me it was because of my degree in ship design , modular steel Naval structures and Metallurgy . I worked for some odd companies over these many years .  Yeah , I know about the "Joe " . She didn't match the " OZZIE'S  ' profile though .The F.R.A.M.s , depending on where done , were as different as ticks on a dog .

USS Joseph P. Kennedy (DD 850) is a FRAM 1 conversion. There are two FRAM Gearing class destroyers in existence in the United States, USS Laffey (DD 724) and the Joseph P. Kennedy. I believe there is one Taiwanese ship as well but I am not certain.

Good luck with your conversion project! But, check out the Iron Shipwrights resin kits. They are quite good.

Bill

Hi Tankerbuilder,  If I understand you correctly you were wondering about a FRAM destroyer still in existence. Wasn't the Joseph P Kennedy that is in Fall River Mass. with the USS Massachusetts a Gearing that was FRAMed? I was just told it was. I have been there twice but I really don't know the difference between a destroyer that was FRAMed and one that wasn't.

Just wondering

"Doc"

I also served aboard the USS Ozbourn 1963-1965 as first Gunnery Officer and later as ASW Officer.  I have several pictures which would assist in a accurate build. Are you a member of the Ozbourn Association?  Planning to attend Ship's reunion in 2015.

Norm

RICARDO,don,t worry about any delay.Is there anything about your FRAM I can help you with? I don,t have pictures ,but,if you can afford the expenses(I don,t know about postage in MEXICO.Send me a letter and we can communicate that way.I can also send you drawings that way too(in scale of course) .What kind of aircraft are you flying,I guess the MEXICAN military ACADEMY makes you do some of everything before they graduate you.Unusual , but , good for you.This way you can decide where you want to specialize.That ,s good isn,t it? Take care and if you would like I am sure F.S.M.can hook you up with my E-MAIL address.       TANKERbuilder.

Thanks for the welcome and sorry by the delay. it´s great to know you were operating in a latinoamerican Navy, always is good experience can interchanged kwnolege and skills with a other navys. about my carrer: I studied like a cadet  (1989) in the navy academy  for a "Navy ciencies ingenier" in other words to be a line oficer aboard ships, but after 2 years aboard in a diferents ships class (gearing, holzinger and azteca classes), I did the fix wing pilot course in 1996. since that date I´ve fliying diferents aircrafts and now since 2008 I became a Navy flight instructor.

well nice to meet you TANKERBuilder.

RICARDO,this is like deja-vu. I did a tour aboard what became the ALMIRANTE BRION in the ARGENTINIAN NAVY. That was an experience! I do believe that I would,ve wished for more duty like that!.Your career sounds like they pretty much ran you through the wringer anyway.I am glad to have friends across our southern border that knows how to drive a ship like a FRAM destroyer .WELCOME ABOARD by the way .  TANKERBbuilder

Hello TANKERbuilder I served in 1994 in the E-11 Netzahualcoyolt (ex-USS Streinaker (DD-863 in the mexican Navy with harbor base in Acapulco and operations in the Mexican Pacific only. I am building a ship where I was commisioned vessels, ships and airplanes.