Recommendations for a plastic ship kit?

Oooooh...what is that??  A warship?? What's the scale on that thing?? 

Man, do you ever spend twenty minutes tying off a rigging block, slipknot-ing it to a bit, then performing all the litle maneuvers to get it over the topmast and back around the other side, only to realize one end of the loop is on the wrong side of another line??? #@$*!   I fixed it, but I think it's time to quit for the night!  I'll get the other two tomorrow!

Dave

Your enthusiasm is infectious!

Great little kits every one, and the Charles W. Morgan too.

Here's my latest model...

like watching paint dry, that Bondo...

To whom it may concern-

So I've found my way past the standing rigging of the Vasa kit, and have moved into the realm of the Running riggging (and the Tan thread!)... now I'm practicing with the technique of making furled sails with tissue....it's cheap, and I bought a lot of it, so I have plenty to experiment with!  After looking at a lot of pics and a few *build reviews* I'm getting a clearer idea of how to do it, and how it should look.  Very exciting!

I've also heard about a method of using the Vac formed sailsheet as a mold to make tissue-paper sails and rig them as if set.  Looked okay, much better than the plastic material, but I may try that on some kit down the road.

Meanwhile, I got a good deal at Amazon for the little Revell Constitution (1:196, Any advice or impressions of that kit are very welcome!!), and it is being delivered today.  My intention was to look for something bigger, and more detailed (terminating line at pinrails that small is DIFFICULT!), for my next kit, but I'm realizing that the majority of plastic ship kits are in the smaller scale range, there only seem to be a handful of 1:100 or so "bigger" kits available.....my plan is to look into the Lindberg Jolly Roger,(based on some recommendations), and probably the Revell Golden Hind (if I can find one)...and maybe a Victory.  These are all small-ish kits (less than 20 inches long?), but they all seem to have styles that I like.

Anyway, just figured I would *blog out* during my lunch break!

Thanks again for all the advice, guys!  I'm sure I'll be asking plenty of questions in the coming months!  And perhaps, someday I'll be answering questions and offering advice to the *new guys*!......

BTW, after reading a lot of posts here (and other places) , it seems as if the frequent contributor JTilley is somewhat of a legend in the model shipbuilding circles!  Informative, articulate, and generous with his knowledge, I can only hope to one day elicit a response from him on a post that I start!  Not to discount my appreciation for the help I've gotten from Don Stauffer, Warshipguy, Bondoman, et al., you guys are the best!  It's just that Professor John Tilley only seems to respond to certain posts....one day I'll ask the right question!!!

Cheers,

David

I like the idea of making furled sails for the kit...

As I learn more, it becomes apparent that research is a big part of model shipbuilding....

I'm studying as many images of the Vasa's hull as I can find, to see how she really looks...so far, my comparison with Revell's instructions seem a little bit different....

I also need to learn more about the constructing masts and yard from wood....

Thanks, as always!!

BTW, I was looking to see if I could find any pics of kits made by yourself, or Don , or others whom I've communicated with here, but it seems hard to navigate the *gallery* by looking for specific contributors' work....am I missing something?

Dave

Dave,

I use a light tannish-off white color of tissue, shape it to fit the yard, the brush it with diluted Elmer's white glue.  You can also cut it to shape if you want the sails billowed.  Others use different techniques for the sails, including cloth.  I also use the tissue method for boat and hatch covers. It works well.

As for the instructions concerning placement of the yards, very few kit instructions get it right.  The books I recommended will help immensely; they are all very inexpensive and readily available on Amazon.com or from Model Expo.

Bill

I see.  Yes, it definitely makes sense that the suspended *hammock-type* sails would put a lot of tension on the masts...I could see why people would leave them off, if they were a nuisance.  My plan is to leave the sails off entirely for this one...

Bill, I didn't realize the yards were moved to a different position when the sails were furled.  I was looking through the instructions for the Vasa last night, and there are no *optional* steps for not using the sails.  I expect I'll be asking for more advice regarding yard placement and rigging options once I reach that point.  Tissue paper? Interesting.  As you said, it's a bit early for that, but I'm curious...the scale seems better than typical supplied sail materials, and I like that it can be rolled up....is tissue a common material for 1/150 furled sails?  maybe if it were overbrushed with some off-tan weathering wash, and maybe sealed with a thinned-out glue?  I'm just brainstorming here...

Anyway, thanks again!  I need to concentrate on work!  I get here in the morning, spend a few minutes reading forums, and then I end up distracted all day thinking about model ships!  ha!

What I really meant by simplify the rig is to to keep to the siplified rig in the instructions and if possible leave any fore- and-aft sails between the masts and from the foremast to the bowsprit off as their weight  can cause things to bend if the lines are tight enough to hold them up properly. 

The rigging on a small scale model sailing ship is almost always simplified because it's just too difficult to do it properly and the plastic masts wouldn't be strong enough to support it.  If you try to follow a full rigging plan using plastic masts it would be an exercise in frustration as every line you attach (and there are lots of them) gives you the opportunity to make a line somewhere else slacken off or knock something else out of whack. 

Whether the masts and bowsprit really need replacing depends on the kit really.  For example, the 1/96 Revell Cutty Sark has quite a thick bowsprit and is strong enough to hold rigging taught without sails.  The 1/200 Heller Royal Louis bowsprit was so soft it bent before the lines were taught, so had to be replaced. YMMV

Dave,

Along with wooden masts and yards, you might consider furled sails made from tissue paper. It's far too early for that, though, but be careful too about placement of the yards.  The yards are raised when sails are set; they are lowered when sails are furled or removed.  Any of us can help when you get to this stage.

Bill

So I picked up the Revell 1/150 Vasa today....man, I'm impressed by the level of detail on some of the parts!  Much better quality than the BHR!  Almost no flash, seams, etc., and the masts and yards appear to be straight and clean....the kit looks great!  A couple of the vac-formed sails were crumpled due to zealously-efficient packaging, but no matter- I'm not using the sails anyway.

Dave

Wow.

Thanks everyone for the info!  I'm soaking this all up!  There's so much available, and so much to consider!  Gotta love being new to a hobby, everything's fresh!

After reviewing a number of the suggestions offered to me, I think I'll be interested in building a few of them.....the Morgan, the Viking ship, the Jolly Roger...they all seem interesting to me, and if the kits are worthwhile, then I guess I'm going to be busy for awhile!

It makes sense that the plastic of the masts and yards would not hold up well to the rigging line tension....is it common practice to simplify the rigging plans to accommodate for this?  Or do people "find a way" to do it right (like fortifying the material)...I see alot of discussion about customization, and scratchbuilding parts...some of it seems very ambitious to me, and perhaps out of my league...but that's just another part of being new to something, I guess.  I have to learn it before it becomes easy. :)

After I finish the Wasa, I'll have to decide who's next....And yes, I'll deifinitely keep a non-ship project nearby so I can take a break now and then!  I'd hate to succumb to the Modeller's Madness!  One person's advice was simple: Take your time, find a kit you like, and enjoy yourself.

Thanks again!  I'm glad that the members here have been so welcoming and helpful!  Honestly, I was kind of wondering if I would encounter any Model Ship Snobs!   haha

Dave

I agree with pretty much everyting written here, the Revell Charles W Morgan is a lovely kit and builds into a lovely little model, as does the Mayflower.  The new Revell Vasa kit looks very good too.   I'm not so keen on Airfix, though they have some nice subjects.   My favourite kits from the Airfix range would be "Great Western" , "Royal Sovereign" and maybe "Discovery" as they don't have the tramline planking detail that some of the other Airfix kits have (something I personally don't particularly like).

But it really depends on what you're interested in and how much detail you want to go into.  If you want to go into detail, then I would maybe recommend a large scale kit of a small ship with a simple rig like Revell's yacht "America" which is a 1/56 kit and I think a lovely model.   It also has very few parts, so it would be a quick build.   It is out of production at the moment, so your favourite auction site may be the best bet. 

But the best thing is to find a subject that you are interested in.  If you want to go into detail, it's maybe better to buy a model of a subject that still exists, like Vasa, Constitution, Charles W Morgan or Victory as it will make your research much easier.

What you may find when you try and rig a plastic kit properly, the plastic masts and bowsprit jib boom often aren't strong enough to take the tension.  This problem is exacerbated the smaller the scale is and the larger the rig and it is often better to either replace these with stronger material or simply stick to a simplified rig.  The advantage of wooden kits is that you don't have this problem, but building the hull is much more work.

Also, stay away from the Revell HMS Beagle. Revell's Viking Ship is an excellent kit for another change of pace. The entire Airfix collection is excellent as well, except for their HMAV Bounty.

Bill

I would definitely build the Jolly Roger. And the smaller Revell Constitution. And the Revell Charles Morgan if you can find one.

Revell sold a great series of models at fairly small scales. The Morgan, the Golden Hind which is personally my favorite small Revell ship, the Constitution, a series of clipper variants, and a series of German steel hulled variants sort of orbiting around the USCG Eagle. The Mayflower is a good one, as is the little Victory.

In fact, ALL plastic sailing ship models have something to recommend except for that BHR you built, which I consider to be one of the worst. So you've done well if the results are at all satisfactory to you.

I'd stay away from Heller at first. The instructions are usually hard to follow, the kits are complicated.

Building a 1/96 Constitution is always a good project. And like Don said, give yourself a break with other things.

Bill-

I'm glad to hear the Wasa is a decent kit!  I already checked with my local HobbyTown USA, and they have it in stock.  I expect to stop by there on the way home from work tomorrow and pick it up!

Although, I may not get a chance to start on it for awhile (I have a Tamiya 1/35 military set in the works right now-another first-time thing!), I want to have the Wasa in hand, get famiiar with the instructions and the parts and so on...

I'm sure I'll be building it sans sails, even though I'm interested in seeing how the vac formed pieces look and feel....I think I was turned off from sails entirely after the Richard!  Plus, I really like the elegant look of a ship rigged without sails....

And thanks for the heads-up regarding the Lindberg Pirate kits...I'll be sure and keep those in mind for the future!

Dave

Dave,

Actually, the new Revell Wasa is a far superior kit to the BonHomme Richard.  You can't go wrong starting with that kit at all!  If I were to build the Richard, I would scrap those sails and yards and scratch build them, as well as rigging the shrouds and ratlines myself.

Also, don't be scared off of the Lindberg "pirate ships;" they actually represent real ships from national navies. For example the so-called "Jolly Roger" represents the French Frigate La Flore, another represents the Royal Sovereign. Still another represents the Wappen von Hamburg, and one the Saint Louis.  They are not bad models once you realize that they are not what they are packaged to be.  Also, all but the Wappen von Hamburg have injection molded sails and separate yard arms.

I have them all; they are each basically sound kits.  The Wasa is particularly nice.

Bill

HA!  HECEPOB!  I love it!

Thanks, Bill!

New as I am to ship modeling, I'm trying to learn what I can from the experienced builders...but it really comes down to practice, and gaining experience on my own, I think.  My intention was to go for something more ambitious next time around, but now I wonder if I should be cutting my teeth on a couple more of the simpler kits, before I move into the realm of super-detailed, skill-intensive setups (be they wood or plastic)...

It's a little daunting to be in the companty of so many informed and experienced builders...and honestly, being a neophyte amongst the many seeming experts/purists of the hobby, some of my questions and goals may seem far below the level (or the interest) of the contemporary contributors here. 

My first ship was the Bonhomme Richard.  I felt I did an alright job with it considering it was my first effort, but I'll admit I sort of half-assed (if you'll forgive the crude parlance) the rigging to a degree. Mainly, I think it was because I found myself dissatisfied with the look of the injection molded sails, and realized the kit would never look as good as I wanted because the sails looked fake, heavy, and out of scale.  I don't have the inclination (or even the knowledge) to be be very concerned with details like the authentic accuracy of a kit, or other various particulars I've read about...but I do enjoy the look of old-time sailing ships, and I like to make things that look neat.  Which is why I decided to try my hand at this in the first place.

I hope to gain enough of the skill, knowledge, and passion that I've seen demonstrated by some of the contributors, but for now I think it best to work slowly toward that end.  I was considering going into something like the 1/96 *connie*, but now really think that would be premature.  Instead, I saw the recently-released Revell 1/150 Vasa this morning, and I like the shape and style of it.  Considering it is on par with the level of detail and skill level of my previous effort, I'm now leaning toward buying that kit, and giving it all the care and attention I can, while learning what I can along the way.  Also, it has yardarms that are separate from the vac formed sails, so I think that means it can be assembled with rigging only, and without sails, which I think I would prefer.

Once I work my way through a couple more of the lower-level kits, I bet I'll have gotten myself to a level where I can decide if I want to tackle something major (larger, or even something wooden)....

Geez, I just realized I'm rambling like crazy!!  Sorry, guys! I start getting interested in stuff, and I sometimes get carried away! 

Cheers!

Dave,

I build both plastic and wood sailing ship models.  There are two types of wood kits, solid hull and plank-on-bulkhead.  As with plastic, there are varying degrees of quality and detail found in each kit.

There are two publications you should get should you get into wood kits; The Neophyte Shipmodeller's JACKSTAY by George Campbell, and Planking the Built-up Ship Model by Jim Roberts. Both are Model Shipways publications and are inexpensive.

There are few plastic sailing ship kits manufactured today.  I would estimate that approximately 50 kits have been manufactured since the 1950's to varying degrees of accuracy.

Similarly, solid hull kits seem to be going the way of the dinosaur.  They used to be very available, with Model Shipways, Bluejacket, and A.J. Fischer kits being the best.  Companies such as Scientific and Sterling produced less expensive kits that were easier builds, but could be built into nice models with care. These kits are readily found in the secondary market such as eBay and yard sales.

The world of plank-on-bulkhead kits is somewhat controversial; there are many kits out there that simply don't stand up to scrutiny.  A frequent contributor to the sailing ship forums, Professor John Tilley, has denounced these kits with the acronym "HECEPOB," that is, Hideously Expensive Continental European Plank-On-Bulkhead kits for which the designers have no knowledge of how sailing ships work.  That said, any kit can be corrected and made into excellent models given the research and the effort. There are companies that do design and produce outstanding kits, but there are also companies that produce poor kits as well.

As for being ready for wood kits, wood is a far more forgiving medium than plastic. It is easy to work with given the right tools.  But, these kits are more expensive than their plastic counterparts.

Get the ship you want, look into the references, and have fun!

Bill

Thanks!  I deifinitely appreciate any and all advice/insight/suggestions that people "in the know" might have!

Someone else suggested I get a wooden ship kit, and that I might find it more interesting...but I don't know if I'm ready for that yet!

I certainly don't want to burn myself out by doing a super complex kit, but I do enjoy a challenge, and I am expecting my next project to take several months to complete...It sounds like Heller makes good kits, but I've heard that the instructions leave something to be desired...

I also ordered a book on plastic ship kits...hopefully, it will be helpful.  And thanks for the heads-up on the rigging books, seems like those will be a big help, too!

Dave

Welcome aboard!

I agree with Don. I would also get a set of references on rigging, such as George Biddlecombe's The Art of Rigging, or R.C. Anderson's The Rigging of Ships In The Days of the Spritsail Topmast, 1600-1720.  Also, many modelers recommend beginning with a ship of a simpler rig, such as a schooner or a brig.  I disagree with this approach emphatically!  I believe that you are more likely to finish with a ship that you are interested in, no matter its complexity.  But, we each have our different approaches.

There are many experts in this forum who are each willing to provide excellent advice about sailing ships. Feel free to ask any questions as you progress.

Bill

The Revell Constitution is still a pretty good kit, even for its extreme age- it is many decades old.  Heller sailing ship kits are also very nice.

However, keep in mind that you model ship kits, especially full rigged ships (three square sail masts) are an order of magnitude more work than a car kit.  Many folks- even experienced modelers- never finish after starting one.  My suggestion- have an "in progress" shelf where you can put the kit with all its parts while you take a sabbatical and work on race car or other kits while you rejuvenate yourself.  A full rigged ship is a project that takes the better part of a year- in some cases even more  than a year for something like a Heller Le Soleil Royale or Victory.  Don't burn yourself out.

The rigging is a major test of patience.  It is very repetitious and mind numbing, especially if you do your own shroud and ratline setup.  However, it is like riding a bike.  Once you get the moves down and your hands are trained, you speed up very much and your mind wanders to whatever, while your hands take over and do the work.  Sort of like knitting or crochet.