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Zvezda Black Swan 1/72

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  • Member since
    October, 2009
  • From: So Cal
Zvezda Black Swan 1/72
Posted by 2whl on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 9:41 PM

First of all I should state that I am a complete beginner to ship building.   I built a Revell Wright Flyer on another forum and my positive experience in rigging it led to my investigating sailing ships.   I have read several of the threads here regarding AoS ships and I was wondering if anyone here has any knowledge of this ship.  It has 897 parts and is 55cm long.

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

  • Member since
    March, 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Thursday, May 10, 2012 12:21 AM

It looks like fun but it's really expensive. Smaller ship models are generally agreed upon as a better place to get started,

I would really recommend that you find a Lindberg "Jolly Roger", which like the Black Swan (Pearl) is a take on the current desire to say fulsome stuff about Davy Jones. It's a rebox of a kit called La Flore which in turn is base on a museum model.

The Lindberg ship is a very accurate representation of a ship that therefore never existed either, but is a very pretty little French frigate in concept.

She's full rigged and that's a chore.

Take a look at the new Revell Vasa. Everyone building it really likes it, and the 17th Century rig is easier to get put up than the 18th is with the Jolly Roger.

Pirate AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!

 

  • Member since
    January, 2009
  • From: Central CA
Posted by Division 6 on Thursday, May 10, 2012 5:45 AM

The Black Swan is a rework of their PotC Black Pearl (you can still get it in Russia).

The model is very large.

  • Member since
    March, 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Thursday, May 10, 2012 9:38 AM

Funny, I saw this kit just this morning, and immediately got interested!  I'm a fan of the stylings of the old Galleon-type sail ships, and there are few enough kits of this type on the market.  Although, I'm not a huge POTC fan, if I built the kit, I doubt I would use the color scheme from the films...I prefer the wooden colors.

But, for over 100 dollars? Not sure if I can justify adding this one to the stash...maybe some day down the road, once I run out of stuff to build...I'll be keeping my eye on it, anyway...

If I can offer some advice, since you're new to shipbuilding (I'm pretty new myself)...I have to agree with Bondoman....maybe try your hand at somthing a little less ambitious....this thing has a lot of parts (BTW, inj molded sails?  In a $100 kit? Come on!)...and it looks like the rigging is advanced....appears to have some cool deadeye-shroud assembly...

I'm building the Revell Vasa right now, and it's a great kit! Challenging enough to be fun, but no so difficult that it's discouraging....

Just my opinion....

David

 

        _~
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     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
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Current Project:  Heller 1/100 Soleil Royal

Recently Finished:  Imai Golden Hind 1/70

Next Up:  ?? 

 

  • Member since
    October, 2009
  • From: So Cal
Posted by 2whl on Thursday, May 10, 2012 9:39 AM

bondoman

It looks like fun but it's really expensive. Smaller ship models are generally agreed upon as a better place to get started,

I would really recommend that you find a Lindberg "Jolly Roger", which like the Black Swan (Pearl) is a take on the current desire to say fulsome stuff about Davy Jones. It's a rebox of a kit called La Flore which in turn is base on a museum model.

The Lindberg ship is a very accurate representation of a ship that therefore never existed either, but is a very pretty little French frigate in concept.

She's full rigged and that's a chore.

Take a look at the new Revell Vasa. Everyone building it really likes it, and the 17th Century rig is easier to get put up than the 18th is with the Jolly Roger.

Pirate AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!

 

I would prefer larger because my eyesight isn't what it used to be. Also manual dexterity isn't as good also.  That's why I was looking at the 1/72 ship. 

When you say she's fully rigged, are you refereing to the Jolly Roger or the Black Swan?

 

 

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

  • Member since
    October, 2009
  • From: So Cal
Posted by 2whl on Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:09 AM

I'll stop by my LHS today and see if they have a Vasa or Jolly Roger.

What's a 'dead-eye shroud'? 

From the pics of the built Swan the plastic sails don't appear to be detrimental.

 

 

 

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

  • Member since
    January, 2009
  • From: Central CA
Posted by Division 6 on Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:38 AM

Here's a link to the Hobby Terra site that sells the BP.

It has photos of all the parts, the only difference in the 2 ships is the figurehead.

Disney backed out of the licensing after the model was produced so to sell in the US they changed the name and one or two parts.

  • Member since
    March, 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Thursday, May 10, 2012 11:47 AM

2wheel-

A deadeye and a shroud are two components of the rigging of a ship.  The Shrouds are the closely-spaced vertical ropes that stabilize the masts by holding them to the outer hull of the ship.  The horizontal ropes that cross the shrouds to form a *net*-like structure are called ratlines.  A Deadeye is composed of two wooden blocks which connect the end of a shroud to the "channel", which in turn connects to the Hull.

Typically (in almost all cases), shrouds, ratlines and deadeyes of plastic model kits are all injection molded plastic, which in my opinion looks more like a plastic flyswatter than a series of interconnected ropes! They look crummy!  Common practice for shipbuilders is to not use the supplied shrouds, and instead rig them using thread.  It seems like a lot of work, when coupled with the *other* rigging you'll have to do. But truthfully, shrouds are easy, not complicated, and it goes pretty fast...being one of the outermost areas of rigging, it's actually a luxury to be able to run the line somewhere open like that!  I rigged the shrouds on my Revell Vasa (something like 40 lines per side) and it was one of the fastest steps of the kit so far!  But, rigging the horizontal ratlines across them is a different story.  I didn't even bother with them, especially at this scale, it's common to omit them. Otherwise, it would have become a HUGE pain in the rear! Which is why model manufacturers mold the shroud/ratlines in plastic, to save us time, and still give the impression of a fully rigged ship.

What's interesting about this Zvezda kit, is that the ratlines actually have some sag to them, which is unusual for molded examples, plus the deadeyes actually look similar to the blocks on a real ship and if I'm seeing it correctly, it appears that  the deadeyes actually get rigged with line, instead of being entirely made of plastic.  Interesting.  Plus, there's some seriously articulate detail to many of the parts....

....I'm still very intrigued by this Black Swan kit (I like the color scheme from the pic you posted)....I want to build it, but for the price....It's going to take some consideration....

Hope this helps!

David

 

 

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Heller 1/100 Soleil Royal

Recently Finished:  Imai Golden Hind 1/70

Next Up:  ?? 

 

  • Member since
    October, 2009
  • From: So Cal
Posted by 2whl on Thursday, May 10, 2012 8:08 PM

My LHS didn't have either the Jolly Roger or the Vasa.  But they did have the Black Swan.  They let me look into the kit and I was very impressed by what I saw.  Mind you, this is before I saw the info that David posted this morning. Which by the way, Thank You Dave, I appreciate any and all feed-back or info I can get .  I liked the shroud/rat line assemblies enough that I felt they would not be too toy-like.  And even though the sails are plastic, in this scale they did not look like they would be a problem as per looks.  The guy at the LHS today was a very knowledgable ship-modeler and he gave me several ideas as to what to do about sails/no sails.  Knowing my skill level from my usual genres, he thought that the Swan was a good choice, so I bought it.  Price was not a concern, since I just got back from vending at the SoCal NNL and had sold enough to easily make the purchase.  I looked at it as getting rid of a bunch of kits I won't build for one I will.

Since I did purchase the Swan, I'll turn this thread into a WIP.  The sprue shots are the same as the link that Division 6 provided, other than the figurehead.  I've had a chance to study the instructions, and the rigging diagram/steps are very clear and easy to follow.  If anyone wishes to see instruction scans or sprue shots, just ask, I don't mind posting them up.

Beware David, after seeing me start on this WIP, you might be very tempted to buy a Black Swan/Pearl.  lol

 Paul

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

  • Member since
    March, 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:35 PM

Paul-

That's terrific!  I'm glad you got the Pearl/Swan! And I for one would LOVE to see this as a WIP thread...keep us updated, I'm already drooling over the kit, and I can't wait to hear some impressions.  I got my homemade furled sails on the Wasa today, but I'm not that impressed with my results....they look okay, but I have a few things to learn!

Once I'm done with the Wasa, I have a vintage Revell Golden Hind I'm going to start, and by then I'll probably have convinced myself that the Swan is a necessary addition to the collection!  I really dig the style of it, and it looks likeit has amazing detail!  Still really surprised that it comes with Injection-molded sails, for a 800+ part kit that's priced at over 100 bucks, though....lol

Keep the details coming!

And BTW, if you have ANY questions regarding your build, don't hesitate to ask!  Everybody here has been totally generous with their knowledge...some of these guys have been building model ships for a long, long time, and they know their stuff!  It's a blast!  Personally, I'm only on my second ship (I've been building Tamiya race car kits since forever, so I have lots of modeling exp), but I've learned a TON already, and it's fascinating to me....

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Heller 1/100 Soleil Royal

Recently Finished:  Imai Golden Hind 1/70

Next Up:  ?? 

 

  • Member since
    March, 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Thursday, May 10, 2012 11:45 PM

You guys need to do what's called a buddy build. I've done a couple and they are fun because if you both stick it out, you'll learn a ton and have two completely different ships

  • Member since
    October, 2009
  • From: So Cal
Posted by 2whl on Friday, May 11, 2012 8:24 AM

David

I think you'll like the level of detail on the Swan. I too, started by building cars.  Then I got encouraged to do airplanes. Now it's on to ships.

After getting the kit home, I spread out the sprues for a picture.   I left my foot in the picture for scale.

And here is the start of my first ship.  Well, not really, I built a nuclear powered cargo ship in the 50's when I was a kid.

 

 

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

  • Member since
    November, 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, May 11, 2012 8:31 AM

Division 6

Here's a link to the Hobby Terra site that sells the BP.

It has photos of all the parts, the only difference in the 2 ships is the figurehead.

Disney backed out of the licensing after the model was produced so to sell in the US they changed the name and one or two parts.

Do you have pics of the two figureheads?

  • Member since
    October, 2009
  • From: So Cal
Posted by 2whl on Friday, May 11, 2012 8:59 AM

Manstein's revenge

Do you have pics of the two figureheads?

Here is the pic of the sprue of the Swan. 

 

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

  • Member since
    November, 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, May 11, 2012 9:00 AM

2whl

 Manstein's revenge:

Do you have pics of the two figureheads?

 

Here is the pic of the sprue of the Swan. 

http://images46.fotki.com/v1493/photos/8/1636148/10656392/BS018-vi.jpg

 

I want the version with the girl on the front...

  • Member since
    March, 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Friday, May 11, 2012 9:08 AM

Man, that thing's got a LOT of parts!  I noticed that even the guns have several parts....you're going to have to have a "cannon building day" and just get them all put together at once!

I really like the lines of the Hull....how is the condition of the parts?  Do you see much flash, or do you notice any defects?  What about the fit of the hull? 
I think it's neat that the railing is separate from the hull, and the ornate stern decorations are also separate....haven't seen that before, and it will make it much easier to paint....usually that stuff has to be basecoated with a brush, but since it's separate, you could hit it with a nice spray coat....

BTW, are you going with the Pirates version?  It would look cool, but I think to pull it off right, it's going to require some serious weathering for texture....

Very nice!

 

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Heller 1/100 Soleil Royal

Recently Finished:  Imai Golden Hind 1/70

Next Up:  ?? 

 

  • Member since
    October, 2009
  • From: So Cal
Posted by 2whl on Friday, May 11, 2012 9:12 AM

Manstein's revenge

I want the version with the girl on the front...

had to go to the on-line store and do a PrintScreen.....

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

  • Member since
    October, 2009
  • From: So Cal
Posted by 2whl on Friday, May 11, 2012 9:24 AM

David_K

Man, that thing's got a LOT of parts!  I noticed that even the guns have several parts....you're going to have to have a "cannon building day" and just get them all put together at once!

I really like the lines of the Hull....how is the condition of the parts?  Do you see much flash, or do you notice any defects?  What about the fit of the hull? 
I think it's neat that the railing is separate from the hull, and the ornate stern decorations are also separate....haven't seen that before, and it will make it much easier to paint....usually that stuff has to be basecoated with a brush, but since it's separate, you could hit it with a nice spray coat....

BTW, are you going with the Pirates version?  It would look cool, but I think to pull it off right, it's going to require some serious weathering for texture....

Very nice!

 

 

The guns have 7 parts per gun X 32 guns.  More like a cannon building week.  lol

The condition of the parts is excellent, I haven't seen any flash or defects yet. The hull halves went together very easily.   I don't have the 'Pearl' figurehead.  Evidently, Zvezda just re-did that sprue to get around the Disney pull-out.

Yes, having the ornate decos seperate is great, but I going to have to be very carefull cutting them off of the sprue because they look very delicate.

I'll go with the color scheme on the box and do a generic pirate ship.

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

  • Member since
    November, 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, May 11, 2012 10:03 AM

2whl

 Manstein's revenge:

I want the version with the girl on the front...

 

had to go to the on-line store and do a PrintScreen.....

http://images42.fotki.com/v663/photos/8/1636148/10656392/BS017-vi.jpg

That's it---which boxing is that from? 

  • Member since
    October, 2009
  • From: So Cal
Posted by 2whl on Friday, May 11, 2012 10:10 AM

Manstein's revenge

That's it---which boxing is that from? 

 

That's from the Black Pearl box, which evidently won't show up in US hobby shops, but is available from Hobby Terra.

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

  • Member since
    March, 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Friday, May 11, 2012 10:21 AM

I'm not familiar with Zvezda, but I've heard that their stuff is pretty good quality.  It sounds like a very nice kit!  I think they're a Russian brand?

Generic Pirate ship sounds good to me....that's just how I would do it (or, how I WILL do it, once the time comes!)....I tend to like the different *wooden* colors, I painted the Wasa with several different shades/colors of brown for the hull, deck, masts and yards....and the castles and upper hull are flat red, with gold for the figures and carvings....I didn't want to to paint them all as they are depicted, it was really gaudy looking , and in scale I think it would have looked more messy than realistic.

Definitely have to be careful with those delicate parts!  Nothing like snapping a pretty little decoration in half while trying to remove it from the sprue!  I always us a brand-new x-acto blade for that stuff....or I've even resorted to a Dremel with a cutoff wheel, and just remove the part with some extra sprue contact point, and then gently file the extra off with my little emery boards....

It would be cool to have the Angel figurehead, but what can you do?

Now that my fureld sails are on, it's back to running rigging! 

Let us know how your progress goes....

Dave

 

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Heller 1/100 Soleil Royal

Recently Finished:  Imai Golden Hind 1/70

Next Up:  ?? 

 

  • Member since
    October, 2009
  • From: So Cal
Posted by 2whl on Saturday, May 12, 2012 12:17 PM

Thanks David. If I had known about the Black Pearl version, I certainly would have gotten that one.  But the Swan suits me fine also.

Since this is a fairly new release, I'll try to show as much as the steps in the build as possible to give everyone a good idea of the kit.  With that in mind, here is the next step I got completed.  But the next update will probably be awhile because it's time to build cannons to put on the lower deck before it gets closed up.The kit gives the option of having the guns run-out or stowed.

 

 

 

 

 

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

  • Member since
    March, 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Saturday, May 12, 2012 6:11 PM

Looking good so far!  You're already a good bit into painting and assembly....It's funny how the first stages of shipbuilding go by so fast....painting and gluing and detailing...then you reach the rigging stage, and things change...I haven't even opened a bottle of paint for two weeks!

Hey, can you tell me how to post pictures up here??  I keep build-logs on Facebook, but some people have mentioned that they don't use it, so I hoped I could get some shots up here, to see what people think of my work...

Thanks!

Looking forward to the next update!  BTW, I'm leaning toward building the Swan after my next kit, the Golden Hind, is done...

Dave

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Heller 1/100 Soleil Royal

Recently Finished:  Imai Golden Hind 1/70

Next Up:  ?? 

 

  • Member since
    October, 2009
  • From: So Cal
Posted by 2whl on Saturday, May 12, 2012 7:11 PM

David_K

Looking good so far!  You're already a good bit into painting and assembly....It's funny how the first stages of shipbuilding go by so fast....painting and gluing and detailing...then you reach the rigging stage, and things change...I haven't even opened a bottle of paint for two weeks!

Hey, can you tell me how to post pictures up here??  I keep build-logs on Facebook, but some people have mentioned that they don't use it, so I hoped I could get some shots up here, to see what people think of my work...

Thanks!

Looking forward to the next update!  BTW, I'm leaning toward building the Swan after my next kit, the Golden Hind, is done...

Dave

Thanks David.  It's really not much yet. 

To post pics here, you first need a photo hosting site, like Fotki (which I use) or Photobucket.  Then you can use the link they provide you with to post pics here.  You'll see a little filmstrip at the top of your post message box that says "post media" .  Insert the link to the photo and your done.  The Fotki account I have is a free one, so it's just a matter of spending some time at the keyboard...

Maybe you should use the link Division 6 gave us and do a Black Pearl... Pirate

 

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

  • Member since
    March, 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Saturday, May 12, 2012 9:34 PM

I uploaded pics on my old Flickr account, and posted some on another post here called Making furled sails...

If you're interested, you can check out the ones I posted on that thread, or here's the link to my Flickr Vasa set...I just grabbed a few of my build pics from facebook and added them to a set on Flickr, so it's all of them, but some...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8397735@N07/sets/72157629699156080/

 

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Heller 1/100 Soleil Royal

Recently Finished:  Imai Golden Hind 1/70

Next Up:  ?? 

 

  • Member since
    March, 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Saturday, May 12, 2012 11:40 PM

You know, the more I learn about this kit you're working on, the more I want it!  It's intriguing, the unusual way the hull and upper rails assemble, the way the decks are laid out, the fact that it has INJ MOLDED SAILS!....but the level of detail is incredible, people say the quality of the tooling produces flawless parts,  and apparently it's just a great kit!  I like the fact that it's a large scale 1:72, but still not necessarily a large built kit....can you do me a favor?  Once you start getting further along in assembly, I'd be interested to know what the full dimensions are when completed...I think it's supposed to be about 22 inches long, but I'm also curious about the width at the longest yardarm, and the height...

Seriously, I think this kit is the only one on my radar that's going to top the Wasa....

And I feel like it should be built *out of the box*....no alteration, no scratchbuilt or aftermarket parts or hardware....this thing should even be built with...yeah, I'll say it...the sails.

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Heller 1/100 Soleil Royal

Recently Finished:  Imai Golden Hind 1/70

Next Up:  ?? 

 

  • Member since
    March, 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Sunday, May 13, 2012 1:04 AM

David_K

You know, the more I learn about this kit you're working on, the more I want it!  It's intriguing, the unusual way the hull and upper rails assemble, the way the decks are laid out, the fact that it has INJ MOLDED SAILS!....but the level of detail is incredible, people say the quality of the tooling produces flawless parts,  and apparently it's just a great kit!  I like the fact that it's a large scale 1:72, but still not necessarily a large built kit....can you do me a favor?  Once you start getting further along in assembly, I'd be interested to know what the full dimensions are when completed...I think it's supposed to be about 22 inches long, but I'm also curious about the width at the longest yardarm, and the height...

Seriously, I think this kit is the only one on my radar that's going to top the Wasa....

And I feel like it should be built *out of the box*....no alteration, no scratchbuilt or aftermarket parts or hardware....this thing should even be built with...yeah, I'll say it...the sails.

Bad idea. If you do choose to build anything, always test your talents. OOB just means that you got paid for a review (a) or (b) it could have been better but you chose not.

Snap out of it.

  • Member since
    March, 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Sunday, May 13, 2012 9:45 AM

Haha!  Yeah, I guess I got a little carried away! 

"Always test your talents."  I like it.

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Heller 1/100 Soleil Royal

Recently Finished:  Imai Golden Hind 1/70

Next Up:  ?? 

 

  • Member since
    March, 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Sunday, May 13, 2012 12:32 PM

I like that the cannons have the recoil gear...my current build omitted that stuff...Something to consider: If the gun deck it totally enclosed, and all you can see is the barrels poking out of the ports, there may be little point in adding much detail to the gun carriages.  Depends on whether or not you just want the practice of detail painting.  With the Wasa, I painted the barrels of the *lower guns* and just the front of the carriages (there's 64 cannons on her), so that all the visible parts were detailed, but I didn't paint the wheels of the Inner carriages, nor did I bother with any kind of wash or other painting. The guns on the main deck, however, I did all the appropriate finishing (for obvious reasons)....

Paul, do you have experience with weathering and washes for texture, things like that? I know you're an experienced modeler, but I wasn't sure if you had any questions or concerns about ship-specific stuff....As you know, I'm a newbie, too, but I'm always happy to help with any questions I can.

And like I said before, I'm very interested in seeing as much of the build as you want to post here!  Plus, any impressions/opinions/observations you have about construction...

Dave

 

 

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Heller 1/100 Soleil Royal

Recently Finished:  Imai Golden Hind 1/70

Next Up:  ?? 

 

  • Member since
    October, 2009
  • From: So Cal
Posted by 2whl on Sunday, May 13, 2012 6:08 PM

David_K

...can you do me a favor?  Once you start getting further along in assembly, I'd be interested to know what the full dimensions are when completed...I think it's supposed to be about 22 inches long, but I'm also curious about the width at the longest yardarm, and the height...

.....this thing should even be built with...yeah, I'll say it...the sails.

I stopped cannon production long enough to assemble the masts and dry fit them in order to get dimensions.  Since the book on rigging ships hasn't arrived yet and I'm a moron on the proper sailing nomenclature, I'm guessing the yardarm is the piece that the sail is hung off of.   So, dimensions are about 21 inches tall, 22 inches long and 8 inches wide.

I painted the sails with Tamiya fine primer(white) and will mask of the yardarm(?) later to paint it.

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

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