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South Dakota class WWII flag etiquette

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  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, June 10, 2012 12:55 AM

Moored, whether at anchor, to a mooring buoy, or at pierside, US Navy ships fly the Jack from the Jackstaff in the immediate bow.  The National Ensign is also flown from its staff.

Underway, the National Ensign flies from a designated halyard on the main mast.  The commissioning pennant, and the burgee of embarked Flag Officers flies from the foremast.

The process is part of setting the Sea and Anchor Detail, and you have signalmen (who are not going to let the deckapes touch their bunting) in all the locations needed.  The talkers will pass the word on the JA circuit--"Shift the Colors"--so that this is coordinated.

It's my understanding that ships with stern cranes (not just ships with stern catapults) would have an alternate "in port" staff rigged for the National Ensign.

If steaming into combat, there was/is a long-standing tradition to fly the national Ensign from both Fore and Main mast, and fore and aft as well, in a 4, 2, 1, 3 configuration.

Which brings us to flag sizes.  By Presidential order, USN flag sizes were regularized in sizes from 1 to 12, with 1 through 7 being the typical for ships, and 7 through 12 for boats and smaller vessels.

The No 1 flag is 20' tall in hoist, and 38' in the fly (±6 x 12m); the #7 5'-2" by 9'-9"; th #12 a mere 1'-3-3/4" by 1'-5-7/8" in size.  The flags are issued in proportion to the size of the vessel, so  DD might only have a #4 for it's largest  flag dimension; a capital ship might carry a #4 or #5 as its smallest flags.

The largest National Ensign is often referred to as the "Sunday Ensign" for being broken out with the Church Pennant, when moored.   it's also flown when a ship is "dressed"--having a hoist made of all the signalling pennants strung together and hoisted from stem to stern (the order of the flags differs between nations, too).

In case of need, here's a chart of sizes:  http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq129-1.htm

  • Member since
    May 2010
Posted by amphib on Tuesday, June 5, 2012 8:38 AM

Kyle

Your original question had to do with where the flag was flown in port as well as underway. It appears from pictures I have seen of the Iowa Class battleships in port that the flag was always flown from the after mast. The reason appears to be that battleships and some cruisers had the aircraft handling cranes on the stern and there was no place for an in port flagstaff.

As for the position of the flag underway. Ours was always flown from the after most mast even though there was a radar antenna at the top of the mast. What you are modeling is a snap shot in time.  If you intend to model the ship as it was in 1944 then put the flag where it is shown in the photo you have for 1944.

Amphib

  • Member since
    October 2009
Posted by kylewoody on Monday, June 4, 2012 9:34 PM

I guess, so it seems like they switched it because of the new radar.  Just seems they still could have flown it from the foremast (it's below the radar anyways).  So it would be safe to assume that 1944 on would have been flown from the mainmast? 

Kyle

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Guam
Posted by sub revolution on Monday, June 4, 2012 9:02 PM

Looks like a radar in the second photo... is that what you're getting at? I could understand them not putting the flag on a radar mast.

NEW SIG

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Monday, June 4, 2012 8:43 PM

look at what is ontop of the foremast in 1943 & see what is now ontop of it in 44.

  • Member since
    October 2009
South Dakota class WWII flag etiquette
Posted by kylewoody on Monday, June 4, 2012 6:33 PM

Hey guys,

I have maybe a silly question, but I can't seem to find a good answer.  I've been reading about the history and methods of flag use on ships.  In my book On Deck for the USS Alabama the author states that in port/at anchor she flies the American flag from the ensign staff on the stern.  When steaming, she flies it from the mainmast.  Okay.

Looking at photos, I am confused by this.  It appears in different photos below that she is flying the American flag from the mainmast while anchored in this first picture (not the ensign staff like I would guess)

Another photo of the same area and possibly same day (maybe even minutes difference) shows it at the mainmast, though there is smoke now.  Possibly under her own power, this would be the time the crew would have changed flags from the ensign staff to mainmast right?  Is it possible the above photo (even though no smoke and the author states she's at anchor) is right before she's steaming and therefore they just raised it on the main?

In these next two photos taken a year or so apart shows a flag (much smaller than the above two photos) that I would assume is the American flag.  But in one it is on the foremast, the other on the main. 

In short, how should I model my USS Alabama circa 1944 under her own steam with a flag?  I would like to add one, but I understand it would not be from the stern, so it would either be the main or foremast it is seeming.

I'm not a crazy rivet counter, but if I put up the flag I would like to get it right!


Thanks,

Kyle

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