Missouri

Hi willieandjoe. There is no bottom half to this kit. It is just plain ugly in its current form.

I have since done some research and apparently the Missouri kits are all the same with the flat bottoms.

Oh well, I'll just have to go in search of another ship to build. This time I will ask to see the hull before I hand over a squillion dollars.

I'm over my little tanty now, but I won't stop the medication just in case it all becomes too much for me again.

Quiet odd really.....I just pulled mine out of the stash and opened the box........its a FULL HULL

What brand of kit do you have, dullcote?

If it is the full hull with the rounded bottom, I'll chase that set down because I still want to do that ship.

So far Revell and Tamiya are the only kits that I can find here and apparently Revell wouldn't or couldn't include the proper shape due to some secret navy thing.

what I have here is the TAMIYA 78018**6500 kit

It is indeed a full-one piece hull.

Now just to clarify.....ahead of the "Skeggs" the hull does indeed flatten out on thru about midship...then returns to a more rounded and tapered profile starting near the area just below the forward super structure behind turret number 2.   If that is what you mean by a flat bottom...that is normal and is the correct Shape for the Iowa class hulls...   Or do you mean you have a kit with the hull cut-off at the water line?

What you describe is in fact, the very same one-piece hull that I have. It is not actually a true waterline model.

My issue was that I have never seen or heard of a flat-bottomed sea-going ship...until this model, but if that is the actual hull design, then I shall sit down to a feed of humble pie.

Thank you for taking the time to follow me on this, dullcote.

Since I have forsaken this model, I had best revisit it and consider it further.

Again, thank you for your help on this.

Errol.

The reason for the flat bottom on Battleships is to allow the Battleship to come in closer to the shallower waters of the enemy coastline. The closer to the shore the farther the distance the 16" and 5"  guns can fire at targets that are further down range.

Elroy

What you describe is in fact, the very same one-piece hull that I have. It is not actually a true waterline model.

My issue was that I have never seen or heard of a flat-bottomed sea-going ship...until this model, but if that is the actual hull design, then I shall sit down to a feed of humble pie.

Thank you for taking the time to follow me on this, dullcote.

Since I have forsaken this model, I had best revisit it and consider it further.

Again, thank you for your help on this.

Errol.

Hi Mikeym_us. Many thanks for that information.

I have just learned something new...and here I was thinking I knew just about all there was to know.  We are never too old to learn and this re-enforces that old idiom about old dogs etcetera.

I will absolutely look at this model with a new set of eyes and attitude.

I sincerely appreciate the patience displayed on this forum at my ignorance.

Thanks guys,

Errol.

There seem to be some misconceptions that have crept into this thread.

First you will find that the midbody section of most oceangoing ships does in fact have a flat bottom with vertical sides and a rounded bilge. This is what the Iowa class battleships have.

Second the fact that the Iowa class battleships had a flat bottom for a portion of the hull in no way made them capable of getting closer to land. They were designed to fight other ships in deep water. The fact that their original purpose was made obsolete by aircraft carriers relegated them to a secondary purpose, shore bombardment. They still displaced the same amount  of water and had the same draft regardless of what the hull shape was.

Getting back to Elroy's original question. There certainly are plastic model ships out there with incorrectly cut off hulls. They are not full hulls or true water line hulls. If the hull in question has rounded ends and a flat midbody it probably is a correct representation of an Iowa class hull. To be sure you should measure down from the main deck around the center of the ship. If it measures a scale 56 feet it is a true representation of the hull.

Amphib

In truth this flat bottom dates back to the Post Dread Naught era as can be witnessed by the Hulls of BB37  38,39 and continuing on until the final BB which in this case would have been the proposed USS Montana....if memory serves correctly.  This design along with widened bilge keels was a measure used in stability and roll reduction ,..among other things.

Yeah dont give up on the build Errol,...Ive done a N.C. class and a couple S.Dakota classes and the Mo. class will be a great addition to my Historical lineup.

Good luck on yours my friend!

Again, a sincere thanks for the information from you gentlemen.

It certainly seems I jumped the gun in a big way. Having owned and operated commercial and recreational vessels of varying sizes and holding a ship's masters ticket for over 35 years, I thought I pretty much knew most things about boats and ships...well, what can I say?

In my defence, I have not captained an American warship, so...

I think I might have a little lie down for a moment and gather myself.

Thanks,

Errol.

Can you get it back from your brother? Sort of a reverse Prodigal battleship story?

As much as i wish I could, it just wouldn't be right.

I know he has wanted it for quite awhile and I am in a position where I can always buy another one, which I now have every intention of doing as soon as I can get to the shop. The nearest hobby shop to me is a 6 hour drive each way.

Reverse prodigal battleship? Hmm...food for thought now that you mention it.

American warship design has a couple of influences which embrace using a mid-body section with flat floors--and from destroyers to battleships.  And, some of that flatness is deceptive--in the Iowas, IIRC, the floors rise almost 1" per foot of half-beam, around 9" at the 188' beam of an Iowa (which would be nearly imperceptible at 1/350).

First off, that nearly rectangular underbody allows the center of buoyancy more "distance"  athwart-ships when heeled.  That distance equals more  moment-arm, giving better metacentric height.  This is especially true in the big battle wagons, where roll stability is an important factor in simpliying the mechanical gearing the gunfire prediction computers.

Flatter floors, and near-vertical midships frames also allow for a lot more "blast resistant" spaces, the double & triple bottoms, the anti-torpedo void and tank spaces that are so necessary to major warship design.

Second, from ±1920 on, US warship design has reflected "Panamax" design--the ships have to fit the locks of the Panama Canal.

Now, Revell did issue a number of kits, SS United States being a well-known example, where the underwater hull was truncated somewhere between the waterline and keel.  Usually above where any screws or rudders attached.  Some of that was the legacy of "box scale" kits.  Some of that was in not being able to get full frame dimensions (SS United States being an example of that).

With the information you guys have provided here, I can't wait to start this ship now. While I do not aim for historical accuracy in paint, I like my models to be physically accurate, so when I thought I had been short-changed on the hull shape, I lost the plot.

This has been a very informative and, I must say, civil discussion which I very much appreciate and in my case, it sheds a whole new light on this particular line of ships.

Boy, talk about fickle, but at least I am now a convert.

The only real issue I have with the Tamiya 1/350 USS Missouri is that it is showing its age.  I think that the basic kit needs a thorough retooling. For example, the superstructure bulkheads are plain, the model includes the old-style aztec stairs, etc.  Other than that, there are several detail sets such as the Eduard photoetch or the Lion Roar mixed media sets that will really add detail.  But, I do love that kit.

The Iowas are beautiful. Here's a link to navsource that you might find useful when you go to build. About halfway down the page are some good drydock shots showing the hull form very well, rounded at the stern, flat bottom in center, and the twin skegs.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/63m.htm

Thank you kustommodeler1 for the link. Those photos are magnificent. On my next trip I will try for the series of Iowas.  Who'd a thunk it?

I certainly appreciate the passion you guys have for these magnificent behemoths and I just hope I haven't offended anyone with my initial rantings.

I have been going over the photos in detail and they really are beautiful ships.

Good deal, Elroy - Glad you asked the question - I've learned a lot here, too.  I haven't built any ships lately - but the shipwrights here do some good work - always a pleasure to see.