Plastic Model etc., Glue

southsideringo

Hello out there.

I'm a newbie to the hobby I suppose you could say.  Though I have dabbled around building antique cars and things in the past. I never tried anything like like a SHIP!  Have Mercy!  This is a whole new ball game. A commitment of two or three nights becomes a commitment of two or three months and more.  Even Years.

 So I've been working on the Sea Witch from Lindberg for several months.  Mostly because I keep changing my mind.  Then my grandfather's 90th birthday came around.  He served on the USS Walker DD-517 in the pacific theater.  So my big idea was to build one of these Fletcher Class Destroyers.  I ended up getting Revell of Germany which is pretty good.  I think Model Shipways or one of them had it but it was smaller and 100 more bucks.  And probably half the headaches...

Anyway I suddenly found myself doing one heck of a lot of gluing!!

GLUE!!!  I have some testors in a little black plastic box.  Then some testors liquid in a bottle that has a brush in the lid.  And a big bottle of CA runny that I got from Bluejacket.

I'm really hoping there is something better out there, and since I joined this cool forum, I figured I might as well ask some people who know.

Thanks

Welcome to the dark side.   Ship modeling takes a much different state of mind than other genre's.   But think of the big project in terms of a succession of smaller models which come together at the end into a larger display.

As far as glues, each has its own place.   I just used some old testors in the black bottle with the hypodermic nozzle last week.   It was good for cementing a long joint where I had access, but didn't want to hazard a run from liquid glue or CA.

Thin liquid glues - good for places where capillary action will draw the glue along seams (like hull or fuselage halves).   Tip -- throw away the brush that comes in the bottle and get a 10/0 paint brush to apply the liquid glue with.   Much better control.

CA glues.  People love it or hate it.  Takes some practice. Use a fine tip -- Darren at Resin Shipyard showed me how to make these http://www.resinshipyard.com/pages/tip_pages/glue_tips.html.  If the skills involved are beyond you -- he'll sell you some.   Thicker CA allows more time to position the piece,  but it doesn't flow as well.   It is a matter of trade offs.   And you don't need CA from some place with a hobby logo.   Plain old hardware store Crazy Glue works just as well

White craft glue (Aleene's Tacky Glue from Michaels) has modeling applications.  Tack a part in place using this - then go back with CA to make the attachment permenent.

The process is a learning experience.    The idea is to develop and grow your techniques over the long haul.   It takes practice and patience.

Oh, remember the KISS principle -- Keep It Simple Stupid

Gotcha.  Appreciate it, sir.  I had been noticing myself grabbing different bottles for for different joints.   I guess I'm on the right road.  I just haven't figured it out yet.  E.g. repairing a tiny broken piece.  CA seems to really suck at this.  But give me some surface area and some pressure and that stuff gets flat serious.

Learning

W.

I like Tenax,it in effect welds the seams,works faster then that testors glue you have.

May I also suggest you may want to get a "Touch-N-Flow" applicator.  It's a hollow glass tube with a very fine hollow needle at the end, used for applying solvent glues like "Tenax" or "Plast-I-Weld" to seams and around tiny parts, where capillary action takes over and the glue seeps into the joint.  It takes a bit of practice and patience to get the hang of it, but I love it.  My models are much neater since I learned to use one.  You can usually find one at Hobby Lobby, along with a bottle of their "Plast-I-Weld."  Note: not for CA!

Sounds like you have all the info you need...I personally keep four kinds of glue on hand for ship modeling....

Testors liquid in the black cube with the metal needle applicator-good for strong bonds, big parts, and long seams, but takes a while to set...kinda hard to find sometimes...

Tamiya Extra Thin Cement, in the glass bottle with a brush...semi-strong, but has good flow, and sets up quick....good for tiny parts.

Elmer's white glue...good for sloppy, wash-glue jobs, can be thinned and used for setting rigging knots, making furled sails, clear plastic, etc...takes awhile to dry.

Thin CA....gotta love it!  I use Thin CA for most of my rigging knots.  put a little puddle onto a small square of 3X5 card, and dab it with a toothpick to apply...

I'd love to see some pics of your Sea Witch....I almost chose it as my first model ship back in March....

David

I have just about every type of adhesive on my bench imaginable.I keep hot glue and Liquid Nails on hand as well.

Southside, please regard this as both a Forum post and a reply to your private message.  I agree with what all the other posters have said, but I'll add a couple of minor suggestions.  One - though the common consensus seems to be that "tube glues are for kids," I keep a tube of old-fashioned Testor's (in the orange tube) on my workbench.  There are plenty of situations in which it's good to be able to put a tiny drop of glue in one tiny spot (inside a hole in the deck, for instance) and carefully insert the part into it.  Tube glue is also useful for adhering plastic to wood:  the glue softens the styrene and soaks into the wood.  Two - when you go to buy a bottle of the slow-setting CA adhesive, also pick up a bottle of "CA Accelerator."  It's surprising what a help it can be.

Good luck.

I agree, aint nothin wrong with tube glue. It definitely has it's uses right along with CA, Elmer's, Testors clear parts cement, 2-part epoxy, and ethyl methyl ketone, which is the main ingredient in the liquid cements. (Yes, ethyl methyl ketone is correct, I've seen some call it using methyl first, which is not a crime  but in chemistry all compounds should be called alphabetically.)

Cheers!

Well not all CAs need an accelerator, right?  A lot of times they sell it in just one tube down at the drug store.  Do you think that since I just tossed it on my Bluejacket order along withe deadeyes, hearts, thread, beezwax, etc., that I ended up with such a big bottle that I need an activator?  

It is a big thing.  Must be 2 ounces.  Only cost about $3.50 or something so I said why not.

I'll be really unhappy that glue takes an activator.  

Building the Destroyer for my grandad, Revell sent parts for the fence perimeter fence for the ship.

The fence posts were about 1/64 of an inch.  when I pulled that rail out to look at it the first time a broke 1/3 of them.  About ten minutes later my air conditioner kicked on and that broke almost as many.  Finally that night I had a very inspirational dream and a great passion surged through my soul.  When I woke up that had taken the rest.

No but their scheme made a pretty darn impressive looking model into a toy.  They give you black thread to use as fence wire and then to rig the radio tower.  Just to be sure, I asked my old grandpa and he told me everything was steel cable.  Everywhere

So I have some braided stainless steel wire.  0.010.   Man! Under a magnifying glass it looks exactly like cable. I also have some 0.017 that  I was thinking about using to rig that tower.

So my plan was to use some very small wire brads.  20 gauge or 22 if I could get them.  

Then I was simply going to tie off at a corner, go to the next glue with the CA steel on steel and next and so on.  

Anyhow.  I wasted days on that plan and had to go ahead and chuck it.  That would be a good lesson learned if there was an activator I could have dropped on there.  However, I think it will end up looking good.  Got some nylon thread that's like a steely grey.  I can't keep going back and forth.  I have to get this monster out of my shop so I can show love to the od Sea Witch

David K.

I'll try and see about getting some pics up.  I'll have to learn how but that's usually not a problem.  Plus I want to get it beyond its extremely awkward phase first too.  LOL.  

kustommodeler1

I agree, aint nothin wrong with tube glue. It definitely has it's uses right along with CA, Elmer's, Testors clear parts cement, 2-part epoxy, and ethyl methyl ketone, which is the main ingredient in the liquid cements. (Yes, ethyl methyl ketone is correct, I've seen some call it using methyl first, which is not a crime  but in chemistry all compounds should be called alphabetically.)

Cheers!

As for glues, all of the above. Primarily be aware of how they work in combination with pre painted surfaces, and the fogging effect of CA on clear plastics.

I don't pretend to understand how CA glues work (chemically speaking).  But sometimes, for one reason or another, they just don't want to harden in the amount of time they're supposed to.  A drop of accelerator will get you out of all sorts of jams.

Another use for accelerator:  if you use one of the relatively viscous CA types, the combination of the adhesive and the accelerator will make an excellent (and very hard) gap filler - in a matter of a few seconds.  

Personally, I'd feel very uncomfortable working on a model with a bottle of CA adhesive and no accelerator.

Incidentally - three cheers to FSM for adding the automatic spell-checker feature to the Forum!  I'm a miserable typist, and I really like a program that tells me when I've committed a typo.  (It doesn't recognize FSM as a word, though.)

The Admins recently updated the forum, and now posting pics is a bit different....I explained the process in detail on a different post, because a few people had some trouble figuring it out...I'm sure a search for *post pics* will bring up the thread...or copy this into the search bar:

Trumpeter 1/350 Slava Class Missile Cruise 'Varyag'

that's the thread containing my (presumably) articulate and well-explained instructions!  lol

It seems a little complicated, but once you figure it out, it only takes a second...I transfer my pics from Flickr, but it should be mostly similar for Photobucket, or what have you...

Hope it helps!

BTW, I never use CA for anything other than rigging...it melts paint, and fogs plastic, and YUCK!

So Bondoman,

there really are adhesives out there that will join painted surfaces?  Or are you playing the old Ponce De Leon on us?  If so, that would be amazing.  I tend to get ahead of myself with the painting in order to not get to far behind, if you know what I mean.  :)

W.

If you do decide to use TENEX  and touch and flow save your self some money lfm and locate weld-on # 3 a quatr runs around $20.00 an you can fill a lot of bottles, but bewre it is a hot cement it is Methalchloride and Trichloroethylene, and Methylene Chloride >it is great on plastic, but its main use is for Plexiglass. now as a resident of the Nanny state I have to drive to San Diego as it is banned in ORANGE, Riverside, And LA county, by the way it is made in LA county, It should be used with caution, in a well ventaleted area same as Tenex

I believe that I am in a minority here; I like the Testor's non-toxic blue tube cement over any other type of plastic adhesives for several important reasons . . . (1) It does not string up like the regular formula (orange tube), (2) it has a pleasant odor of lemons, which is not obnoxious like to my wife like the other types of cement, and (3) it holds very well.

I also like the Zap green bottle, which has a somewhat slower drying time, and it has a thicker consistency that helps fill gaps in the plastic.

Anyway, as in all things, it depends on your individual preferences.

Bill