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HELP! What the heck is the correct assortment of flags for 1812 era USS Constitution?

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  • Member since
    July 2012
HELP! What the heck is the correct assortment of flags for 1812 era USS Constitution?
Posted by Captain Isaac Hull on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 11:56 AM

Several USS Constitution paintings depict different flags flown during battle. 

Obviously, some portray battles under different captains, and dates. 

My ship is not appear exactly like it did during the battle with HMS Guerriere. (That being ocre color stripe on gun ports, etc.)

My plan so far has included having:

- A large American flag on the spanker. 

- A Naval Commision Pennant on the main mast. (Long, narrow stars on blue field, one red strip, one white.)

- Signal flags indicating "Prepare for action" 

- First Navy Jack (Don't tread on me) above the bowsprit. 

- Commodore's pennant. (Blue field, one white star) 

However, several paintings depict the battle with the HMS Guerriere showing the Constitution flying:

- 2  American flags. (On the spanker and on the main mast top)

- And two Blue pennants similar to the Commodore's pennant (One with on white star and the other with several) 

So.... what's the most accurate assortment of flags for this moment... or in general? 

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Irvine, CA
Posted by Force9 on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 10:04 PM

Commodore Hull...

I would say you should take your pick among the three most credible contemporary paintings and replicate that configuration of flags - nobody could gainsay you (Birch and Ropes versions generally agree):

Thomas Birch (Collection of Boston MFA):

Michel Felice Cornè (Collections of Peabody Essex Museum and US Naval Academy)

George Ropes Jr -apprentice to Michele Felice Cornè (Collection of USS Constitution Museum)

I doubt the signal "Prepare for Action" would be appropriate.  Constitution did not fight as part of any squadron during the War of 1812 and would not have needed such a signal in place - it would've only been a directive to subordinate units if it was ever even flown at all...

Hope that helps!

  • Member since
    July 2012
Posted by Captain Isaac Hull on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 11:35 PM

Sir,

(Force9)

Your assistance is most appreciated, and eye opening.

The Thomas Birch and Michel Felice Cornè paintings are, indeed, spectacular. I am quite fond of them. The George Ropes Jr. painting is, too. I did not have such a large version of it my collection. Thank you.  I am indebted to you.

Based on those paintings, and recently found photographs of actual antique pennants, I have printed several two-sided, scale appropriate pennants  that will work quite well on our fine ship.

- Swallowtail blue field of stars - printed from scans of the Dietrich flags collection.

- Square pennant with 13 stars, one in the middle.  (What does this one indicate, by the way?)

All in all, combined with the scanned images of a period 1812 American flags... the full complement should look most handsome. I am quite pleased.

RE: "Prepare for Action" signal flags.

This is most distressing.  I had not even considered this ship's actions alone on the high seas, and not in need of signals, for the most part.

I just assumed that she had to have some sort of communication via flag at some point in her career.

Did she in the Mediterranean? Or the Pacific?

I may need to investigate further.

Sincerely,

Captain Isaac Hull

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Irvine, CA
Posted by Force9 on Wednesday, September 5, 2012 10:28 PM

I'm sure Commodore Preble would have flown many signals during his 1803 campaign against Tripoli... However, the ship would be different from the Revell kit and would need to be modified in many ways to match that period.

  • Member since
    July 2012
Posted by Captain Isaac Hull on Thursday, September 6, 2012 9:08 AM

Indeed!

I believe I have a solution.

As a child building models, I often faced the difficulty of portraying models that required advanced detailing or paint, which I often did not have, nor the skill to do so,...by simply assuming that this particular model was on a "Special Mission".

This freed me from the constraints of historical accuracy, and difficult paint jobs!

Often, to make it even easier, these missions were deemed "Special Op's" or simply "Secret Missions" that were unknown to historians.

For this ship I have decided to resort to that strategy yet again.

I have planned to display this model in front of a very large framed photograph of the coast of South Africa, seen from about a mile out to sea...near Port Elizabeth.

Because, in my mind, and in this instance alone,  Captain Hull was ordered to perform a mission that was unbeknownst to history.

Perhaps to rendezvous with an American Marine detachment hidden onshore, and poised to attack enemy positions nearby.

Or to co-ordinate a cutting out mission in port that would disrupt enemy plans and perhaps tip the balance of power in that area to favor the Americans.

Or to assist an undercover operative favorable to the American cause. Possibly involving the destruction, or the seizing of, some sort of new technology or weapon. (doubtful probably, but what the hell, why not? )

Such extreme secrecy was required to complete this mission that the knowledge of it's occurrence was never to be revealed.

Either way, shadowy ship-to-shore communication (or ship-to-ship... if there was another vessel involved,) would be required. Hence, the  need for a "Prepare for action" signal.

Perhaps there would be a better signal for such missions.

I am open to suggestions!

Although.... and I probably need to stop fretting over this... I wonder now... if on such a mission, Hull would not fly his Commodore flag, nor the Navy Jack..

I suppose all  harebrained schemes have their flaws. But I doubt anyone but you or I and a handful of others here and on the web would even know of these flaws.

LOL.

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • From: Mount Bretherton Model Aircraft Observatory
Posted by f8sader on Friday, October 5, 2012 11:02 PM

I can only think that "England expects every man will do his duty" spelled out in signal flags may not work here...

Lon-ski

  • Member since
    July 2012
Posted by Captain Isaac Hull on Saturday, October 6, 2012 4:06 PM
@f9ader:
Indeed!
Not only would that be plaigeristic.. It would be ridiculously innaccurate. Would such a signal be flown from my fine ship the signal man responsible would most certainly be flogged for his error!
But it was a great message... And obviously mostt effective!

- Captain Isaac Hull
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