Santa Maria Opinions??

Imai made one at 1/60, which would probably be my pick out of the blue. I have only ever built the Revell one- nothing there to complain about IMO.

Thanks!  Am I correct in thinking that Imai and Aoshima are the same?  In other words, would a Santa Maria kit from either Imai, ERTL, or Aoshima be the same?

From what I understand, Imai kits are considered some of the best that can be found...

Dave,

Thanks for the compliment! I just received my 1/60 Imai/Ertl Santa Maria yesterday and I was wowed.  Without doing a thorough inspection, it has many of the features of the Revell Santa Maria but the size and detail were impressive.  It still has the caravelle design vs. the carrack design which is interesting considering the "in depth" research that supposedly went into it.  One cool thing was that the Ertl version I picked up had was cloth sails which I'll probably furl.

That being said, I would recommend the kit in a heart beat.  I picked mine up through eBay but I'm sure if you go the Aoshima route you're going to pay through the nose.  One just sold for $20.00 plus shipping;  I paid a bit more but still reasonable.

Another thing, is be prepared to do your homework on the rigging since this has a fairly simplified rigging plan that can be upgraded to make it a really nice model.

Hope this helps,

Steve

Terrific!  Thanks, Steve! I think the ERTL/Imai may be just what I'm looking for..,.and 1/60 scale sounds pretty good, too.

I can't find one on eBay right now, but I'll keep my eyes open....maybe one will pop up.  There is a website selling it, but they want 165 bucks....too much for me!

BTW, please let us know if you start a WIP for your new Santa Maria...I for one would love to see some pics/build progress!

Dave,

I will do a wip on it, but that will have to wait until after Christmas as the Ertl Santa Maria is my present from my lovely wife!  However, I have in my stash an Imai/Ertl/Lee Spanish Galleon 1/100 scale which is really cool.  I think I'll start on that after I finish the Kogge which I really need to start hustling since Modelzona is coming up 03 November!  I also have to finish the Nina, Pinta and the other Santa Maria hull you saw primed in one of the photos I posted.

I noticed I haven't answered your question on how I do artist oils.  I use them straight from the tube; no mineral spirits, no washes.  I wiped the area I've done with a old clean t-shirt and then either leave it alone or add more of the same color or another color depending on the look I'm going for. I then try and let them alone for at least a week so they'll be somewhat dry.

The Spanish Galleon you will have to find on eBay as even the Aoshima one has been discontinued.  I found mine last March for $12.00.

Steve

While there is limited information available, there is at least some.  There have been a couple of good books on the subject of Columbus' ships in the last decade.  One I particularly remember was written by a Spanish admiral who is somehow involved in museum or history of Spanish ships. I cannot remember the exact title, but I believe the title included the term "Columbus' ships" or something close.  A google search should find it.  I believe this is the book that concluded Santa Maria was a Nao (a type of ship of that period).  All the recent stuff seems to indicate there was a forecastle deck, while some of kits do not have such a deck.  So look for a kit that does, or plan on adding it yourself.

Thanks, Don!  I'll keep that in mind if I end up getting ahold of a SM kit....never heard of a Nao, may have to look into that term...

And Steve....

Dang!  You're a busy shipmodeler!  That's a lot of kits to work on!  I had considered that if I build a Santa Maria, I may want to build the whole set (Nina and Pinta, as well), but there aren't many companies who released all three...and I think the ERTL/Imai sounds like the best of the bunch. Cloth sails on a plastic kit?  Never heard of that....

I've seen/read about the 1/100 Imai Spanish Galleon, and it's one I VERY much like....I haven't been able to find it anywhere for a reasonable price, though....12.00 is a great deal!

So far, the only two plastic kits I've got my eye on are that Spanish Galleon, and the Santa Maria....now if I can just find one of them!  It's kind of a drag that the only available kits that I want are on the pre-owned market...guess I'll keep looking at eBay, maybe one of them will show up.  Perhaps in the meantime, I'll keep fooling around with that Corel Berlin wood kit I inherited.

So, as far as the oil-painting technique:  It sounds like you apply your basecoat (spray?) with regular model paints, and then begin adding the artist oils (brush?), and then you wipe off excesses with a cloth?  I guess that's how you achieve the streaked, almost grain-like texture and color?  Then touch-up and highlights with more oils, then let it dry for several days.....

I think I'll need to get a nice piece of styrene scrap and try some practice runs before I attempt it on a *serious* kit.....if I can get anything close to the look you've been showing us, I'll be thrilled!

Thanks a bunch for the pointers!  

I have built three of the Imai/Ertl/Aoshima Santa Maria in the last twelve years. Its a great model fit is great. I have pictures of two of them at  www.modelwarships.com

i perfer the Imai kits because of the plastic's they used for there hulls and decks. The plastic takes stain real well.

Rod

Wow, Rod....that's some very nice work!  Tell me, do you also use the artist oil paints? I can't believe how the color scheme looks so much like wood!  And the texture...

Some of the stuff I've been seeing lately is a completely different level of awesomeness!

It's settled....I'm officially on the hunt for one of those kits....

Thanks David

  I actually use and acrylic under base with Zar wood stain then some artist oil washes.I'll send you a message in a couple of days how  I apply things if you'd like.

Rod

Rod,

I am avid fan of your work, in fact I started using artist oils after studying your models on ModelWarships for the last two years.  I'm not sure about the wood-stains and how they adhere to the plastic; and what exactly do you use the India ink on?  I have an Imai 1/80 Chebec in my stash that I'm waiting to build until my modeling skills get better.  Please keep posting, I learn a lot from you and a number of other modeler here!

Steve

Rod, I would be very grateful to learn some of your techniques!  Please do send me a message!

Thanks!

Well, I just won an eBay auction for a new ERTL/Imai 1/60 Santa Maria!  

Should be here next week...very much looking forward to building it...but considering my newfound appreciation for artist oil paints in the finishing process, I think I have some practicing to do first...might need to buy a *decoy* of some el cheapo kit to try new techniques on!

I'll definitely start a new WIP thread of it, if anyone's interested...

Dave

Congratulations Dave!  You know, another way to practice is to get a sheet or two of styrene and practice on those.  If you have any questions please let me know and I look forward seeing the WIP!

Steve

I have a friend who does wood stains right over the plastic.  It looks pretty good, but I haven't had as good luck.  I think our local club needs to have him do a seminar.

It would be great to see the oil paint technique in action...or even a super-detailed explanation!  I went out and got a set of oil paint tubes (small ones), and a few extra brushes, and some odorless turpenoid...I figure I can get ahold of some plastic and start practicing...I'll probably try out some india ink for washes, too...

I guess for my first experiments, I'll just airbrush some MM acrylic basecoat, and then start in with brushing oil paint straight, then try some thinned out washes, etc., see what I can come up with...should be interesting!  I'm pretty excited.  I might even try using some wood stain, Rod Millard says he gets good results, but it sounds like it takes some finesse!

And though it would be cheap to start out on a sheet of styrene, I wonder if it would be more practical to use something with molded grain, and some shape, you know?

Anyway, once the kit arrives, I'll post some pics and begin a thread for the build...

Thanks for all the input, guys!  And special thanks to Steve for the heads-up on that Santa Maria kit!

Dave

I bought a tiny Revell 1/72 Caribbean Pirate Ship from Amazon for 11 bucks...it'll make a nice little pile of practice parts for the oil paint experiments!  

Just be aware of what that kit is.  It was originally produced back in the '50s under the label "Captain Hook Pirate Ship."  It's a scale replica (actually a very accurate replica) of the "ship" that for quite a few years sat at Disneyland; it was designed to look like the "ship" in Disney's "Peter Pan."  We've discussed that thing several times in the Forum; as I understand it, Disneyland got rid of it quite a few years ago and it spent some time as a restaurant somewhere near LA.  Bottom line:  the kit served the purpose for which it was designed, but it doesn't look like any real ship that ever floated.

It's interesting that the original "Captain Hook Pirate Ship" had the Disney logo on the box, and obviously was authorized by the Disney people, whereas the box and attendant ads for the reissued version meticulously avoid the phrase "Pirates of the Caribbean."  Disney can't claim copyright on the words "Caribbean," "pirate," or "ship," but can claim copyright on a movie title.

Bottom line:  it would be a beautiful kit to practice painting techniques, and all sorts of other techniques on, and it's capable of producing a fine, accurate replica of an amusement park prop.  But not a scale model of a ship.

Well, that brings back quite a few memories, but I'll be brief.

The Disneyland Pirate Ship was built for the park when it opened in 1955. Of course it was a tie-in to the "Jolly Roger" from the Peter Pan movie, and the original story by J.M. Barrie. It was built in the Disney Studio backlot and transported to the park, set in place by a crane and functioned as a snack bar branded for "Chicken of the Sea". Naturally, it sold tuna burgers, tuna pot pies and I don't know what else. The original "ship" was a building that sat on the bottom of a pond. Over time the submerged wood elements were replaced with a concrete footing.

I first visited the Park in 1961, and the ship made quite an impression on me. Hook and Smee and other piraticals were live actors, and IIRC there was a rack of play weapons on deck that little boys could borrow and smack away at each other with.

The ship was later copied at Disneyland Paris and I believe is still there. In 1983-1984 Fantasyland (California) was substantially remodeled, and the ship was demolished in place, replaced by a Dumbo ride.

More interesting to me as an adult are the Mark Twain and the Columbia, the latter a recreation of the Columbia of 18th Century exploration fame. Both are true floaters and were built at the Todd Shipyard in San Pedro, CA.

It's pretty neat to know about the history of the *Jolly Roger* from Disneyland....I think the last time I went to Disneyland, I was about 10 years old, so that would have been 1984 or so....I don't remember seeing it there...I do remember Pirates of the Caribbean, and that was cool!

I guess for anyone who's interested in building the little Revell 1/72 Disney Caribbean Pirate Ship, it would be more of a sentimental thing, because it's clearly not designed with much detail or razzle-dazzle.  My only purpose for buying it was because it was very inexpensive, and resembled something in the shape of a sailing ship....now I'll have a hull and a deck to go "Mad Scientist" on while trying out different methods with oil paint application....I don't think I'll be assembling any of the parts, and I may not even remove them from the sprues!  It is destined for a messy end!

Epilogue:  Not that it matters to me whether it's a scale model of a real ship!  Something tells me if I ever do a Constitution, or a Victory, I'll likely take steps to preserve some level of authenticity, but for the most part, my position remains unchanged:  If I think it looks pretty, I'll build it!  I actually really like the look of the Heller Soleil Royal....it might end up on my bench someday...regardless of the numerous *problems* it has, I still think it's beautiful!  And it would prove a great challenge!

Dave

I really admire your attitude, David. I tend to use my own model time as a reason to do research, in fact I am sure I spend about 4 times as much time (odd how that word has multiple meanings) reading as I do modeling a subject. A recent example is a new interest in polar exploration, but I digress...

Disney was as you probably know a very serious modeler and model collector. There's a fascinating book about his railroads. After reading it, one might conclude that Disneyland was a giant excuse to build a really large layout, bigger than fit on the grounds of his estate.

The first generation of locomotives and rolling stock were built at meticulous reduced scale, similar to the Mark Twain riverboat, and were of course fantastically expensive. When the expansion parks were created,  the live steam was included because it was so popular. But the approach then was to find derelict steam locomotives of diminutive size, in particular on old sugar cane operations in Central America and the Caribbean. Then gee-gaw them up with 19th Century American style ornamentation.

This is entertaining to me, as I say I like to look stuff up.

I have often wondered about the popularity of souvenir ship models.

Certainly real museums have gift stores and those are wise to sell models of the ships present. There's plenty of Gato models at the USS Pampanito gift store, even though she is a Balao.

I clearly remember first seeing the Revell Arizona at the PH National Monument store back in the late 60's, and buying and building it soon after when we came home.

Just last year I tracked down a copy of Stilwell's Arizona book there and bought it over the phone.

Mayflower? Cutty Sark? Constitution? It's a pretty good market.

Of course a model of a fanciful movie prop is quite another thing, but to that I plead guilty as well. The souvenir I brought back from the  park on that first visit was the TWA Rocket to the  Moon kit.

I didn't know that Disney was a modeler, but as you mentioned...it makes a lot of sense, considering his parks are made up of such hugely creative attractions!  Now I have to do some reading about Walt Disney!

In regards to *fanciful movie props*....I think building such subjects is a TERRIFIC way to embrace one's geekyness!  I've always liked sci-fi, and in my younger years I built a number of Star Wars kits, and super hero figure dioramas....good stuff!

Believe me, Gmorrison, I have plenty of respect for those who pursue authenticity in their modelbuilding endeavors!  I like learning new things, too, and researching a project is a great way to immerse oneself into the details...

Cheers!