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Scratch building a wooden ship 4-5 foot long

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  • Member since
    November 2012
Scratch building a wooden ship 4-5 foot long
Posted by Woodwizerd on Thursday, November 15, 2012 4:17 PM
A neighbor gave me a wood model ship called the Golden Hind. It is coming along great but when done I would like to build a non kit all wood ship. My goal is to build it to scale but I need to find the prints but not just any prints. When I say not just any prints I want to use the ones known to be true to the real ship. Most model prints in kits are not true to the real ship like the Corel's HMS Unicorn  . Also being that the ship will be 4-5 foot long I don't want to build just any ship but one from around 1700's - and up like Hms Victory ,Uss Constitution, Wappen Von Hamburg.
I will be milling my own wood from wood I got out of a home built back in 1880's with very tight wood grain. But before I go to milling the wood I need to know what I'm going to build. PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Friday, November 16, 2012 9:37 AM

The two best sources used to be the Dromedary and Taubman's.  I don't think Dromedary is in business any more, but Taubman's plans are available from Loyalhanna Dockyard, though I think they have a seperate web site for Taubman's plans. I heard rumors that Loyalhanna would pick up the Dromedary plans too, but never heard any more about that.  Oh- for US naval ships the Navy  itself through some organization makes plans available in addition to those I mentioned above.

Model shipbuilders are lucky because there are more scale drawings easily available than in almost any other genre (though airplanes come close).  As far as accuracy, depends a lot on the era.  For 20th century ships they usually are very good.  The older the ship, the less accurate they tend to be. If you go back to age of exploration, they are representations at best.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, November 16, 2012 3:50 PM

Look at Longridge's Anatomy of Nelson's Ships

www.amazon.com/.../0870210777

Despite it's title, it is a complete, step-by-step description of how to build Victory in 1/4" scale.

Whether or not you choose to build that little project, it's invaluable in it's sensible description of the classic techniques.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2006
Posted by Fairseas on Friday, November 16, 2012 6:51 PM

Whether or not you plan to build one for R/C sailing, I'd recommend spending some time in the Scale Sail forum of RC Groups to see some examples of large scale builds.  Vic Yankovich's Royal William thread is just one of many that will inspire you to start ripping planks tonight!

www.rcgroups.com/scale-sailboats-653

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Saturday, November 17, 2012 12:01 AM

You have posed the ultimate dilemma for ship modelers--what to build and how to build it?

How determines the what; the what determines the how--chicken-egg-chicken.

Which is further complicated by the situation with plans.  Even the best plans have problems that will vex the patience of almost any modeler.  

Be careful of the allure of "builder's plans" too--for one, they are often too detailed while also being under-detailed in modeler's terms.  Add to that, many ships are not actually built to the builder's plans.

Lest that not be nearly enough of fly in the ointment, ships, particularly wooden sailing ships were not fixed to a given design over their lifespans.  All of the spars could be changed. The 'set" of the rig could vary.  Even the number and placements of masts could change.  Captains and/or owners had great latitude in how they wanted their ships, and did not always leave and handy documentation for the poor modeler.

This can be tough sledding.  Imagine a Hawker Hurricane that could be made into a triplane, then into a monoplane, to also have been a biplane, perhaps a trimotor, too (yeah, yeah, Trumpy would have kits for them all).

There are some good plans out there, Harold Hahn's come to mind.  Subjects--far, far too many.  The American gunboats.of the 1780-1812 era.  Water and anchor hoys.  Brigs and snows, and punts and skiffs and sharpies galore.  Some will note that I have included simple rigs of simpler, smaller vessels.  Method to my madness--those rigs allow using quite large scales to fit a three-foot sort of dimension.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, November 17, 2012 10:59 AM

There are lots of good sources for ship plans.  The two Mr. Stauffer mentioned are/were dealers; they carry/carried vast numbers of plans from different sources.  I think Mr. Stauffer's right:  The Dromedary is out of business.  Taubman's carries literally thousands of plans drawn by hundreds of different draftsmen.  Some of the plans from that source are among the best in the world; others are awful, and many, many rank somewhere between. 

Woodwizerd's blanket condemnation of plans included in kits is too harsh.  It sounds like he's had a bad experience with a kit from Corel - and that company's plans are indeed pretty awful.  Corel is one of the notorious HECEPOB (Hideously Expensive Continental European Plank-On-Bulkhead) manufacturers, who usually don't have the slightest interest in making their kits accurate.  But there are kit manufacturers who supply excellent plans.  One thing to remember, though:  all model kit manufacturers evolve.  It's not safe to assume that if one set of plans from a manufacturer are good, all that manufacturer's plans are.

Two good American sources are Model Shipways (sold by Model Expo:  www.modelexpo-online.com ) and Bluejacket ( www.bluejacketinc.com ).  You won't find a better set of plans for a Gloucester fishing schooner than Eric Ronnberg's drawings for the Model Shipways Elsie and Benjamin W. Latham, and the Bluejacket plans for the U.S.S. Constitution are pretty widely regarded as the most accurate available.  Be warned, though:  both those companies have been around for a long, long time.  If you buy plans from them sight-unseen, you may get something that was drawn back in the thirties or forties and doesn't approach modern standards.

My personal favorite line of plans drawn specifically for modelers is, I think, the ones drawn back in the sixties and seventies by William Crothers under the label Seagull Models.  They're sold by Taubman's.  Unfortunately the range is small; the ones I remember off the top of my head are the clipper ships Challenge, Comet, and Young America, and the American sailing warships Germantown and Pennsylvania.  I'm sure there were a few others - but not a lot.  If you're interested in a latter-day European merchant ship, you should look into the work of Harold Underhill.  (Taubmann's also carries his drawings - but at hideously high prices.  I'm sure there's a cheaper source.) 

Don't overlook the possibilities of plans in books.  There's a series of books, published by the Conway Maritime Press, called the "Anatomy of the Ship" series.  They do vary somewhat in accuracy and detail, but they're generally superb - and each includes hundreds of drawings covering almost every detail of the ship in question.  The Longridge book that GMorrison referred to is superb; it used to come with a full set of plans for the Victory folded up in a pocket inside the back cover.  (I bought mine in about 1975; I don't know whether more recent reprints include the fold-up plans or not.)  The plans from Harold Hahn are also excellent.  I'm not sure where to get them, though; Harold died a few years ago.  There are lots of good plans in the works of David MacGregor.

The books of the great historian of naval architecture Howard I. Chapelle (The History of American Sailing Ships, The History of the American Sailing Navy, The Search for Speed Under Sail, and The American Fishing Schooner) contain hundreds of excellent drawings of American warships and merchantmen.  Chapelle worked at the Smithsonian Institution, and left his original drawings to it.  Finding the Smithsonian site on the Web where ship plan catalogs can be ordered is a bit of a challenge, but those catalogs contain all sorts of plans by other artists as well.  You can order blueprints, custom-made for you when you order them, at quite reasonable prices.

Most of Underhill's aforementioned drawings are reproduced in his books, Deep Water Sail and Sail Training and Cadet Ships.  And if you have any interest in French warships, check out the books by Jean Boudriot.

The official repository for original plans of U.S. Navy and Coast Guard vessels is the National Archives, which sells copies.  The National Archives also has lots of merchant ship plans, but that's hit or miss.  (There is no official repository of privately-owned ship plans in the U.S.)  The original drawings of British warships - and lots of other British vessels besides - are held by the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich, which also sells copies (at astronomical prices).  Be warned, though:  the original plans for a ship may or may not include enough information to build a model.  In fact most don't.

That's the tip of the iceberg; there are lots of other sources for plans.  But that should give you some ideas.

I'll take the liberty of offering a few other unsolicited suggestions.  The first is the one I've given to all newcomers who've asked me (and several who haven't):  Don't try to build the world's best model of the Constitution, Victory, or Flying Cloud as your first scratchbuilding project.  Ship modeling is an old hobby that's challenged people for centuries; if there weren't some value to having experience in it, the hobby would die.  Longridge, if I remember correctly, spent at least ten years (after retirement) working on his Victory full time.  I strongly recommend, as a first project, a relatively small ship in a relatively large scale.  Leave the full-rigged three-masters till you get some practice under your belt.  You won't regret it.

Two - take advantage of the books on the subject.  There are some good books out there - and, unfortunately, some pretty awful ones.  The ones I recommend include those of Longridge, Underhill, Hahn, Charles Davis (with some big reservations), and Wolfram zu Mondfelt (with some less serious reservations).  Those I most definitely don't recommend include the ones by Milton Roth and Gene Johnson.  If you want more suggestions on books, it would be a good idea to start another thread; I'm sure quite a few other Forum members would contribute to it.

Three - woodworking skills are just about essential to scratchbuilding, but they aren't the only ones.  If you want to build a sailing warship, for instance, you almost have to have the tools to make metal turnings.  (The aftermarket manufacturers may be able to sell you gun barrels that will fit, but that's hit-or-miss.)  And rigging a ship model takes skills and techniques that, so far as I know, don't correspond with those in any other craft or hobby.

Four - Be really careful in you choice of woods.  You didn't mention what species those boards from the 1880s are; if they're oak or heart pine, you're in for trouble.  Woods used widely by serious scale ship modelers include basswood, cherry, boxwood, holly, pearwood, and (sometimes) walnut.  White and yellow pine are marginal; balsa is useless.

Five - big isn't necessarily better - or more difficult.  Take a look at the works of Donald McNarry:  http://donaldmcnarryshipmodels.com/menu.html .  His largest scale was 1/16"=1', and he frequently worked on scales as small as 1/64"=1'.  His largest sailing ship models were about 18" long.  When I look at his models, or photos of them, I'm tempted to give up.  Your choice of scale should be influenced by several considerations:  your available workspace, where you want to display the finished model, and - especially important - your eyesight.  I was lucky enough to be born significantly near-sighted; when I was younger I had trouble recognizing people across the room without my glasses, but I could see just about anything on a model without magnification.  My favorite scale used to be 3/32"=1'.  Now, at age 62, I don't think I could work at that scale for long.  (I have various magnifying gadgets, but nothing beats seeing your work with the naked eye.)  If you have to struggle to see what you're doing, you won't have much fun - and fun, after all, is what this is all about.

Like many of my other posts, this one has gone on far too long.  But I hope at least a little of it is useful.  Good luck.  It's a great hobby.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Sunday, November 18, 2012 10:50 AM

I limited my original reply on drawing sources because the original poster's question seemed to be for older sailing ships.  However, another source of plans I used to use was A J Fisher.  While most of his drawings were of Great Lakes ships, and hence more recent, he did have a few that were salt water sailing ships, somewhat older.  While A J Fisher was out of business for awhile, a new ownership has reopened the business.  However, I think all of the A J Fisher plans are carried by Taubmans anyway.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, November 18, 2012 11:19 AM

As a matter of fact, the reincarnated A.J. Fisher sells its plans (separate from the kits) directly to the public:  http://www.ajfisher.com/plans.htm .  I have to confess that I can't recall every having looked at a set of Fisher plans.  I do know the firm had a fine reputation back in the Olde Dayes, and the current owners seem to respect the company traditions.  On the other hand, those plans are awfully old.  On the other hand, the prices, as such things go, are remarkably reasonable.  I'd like to get my hands on the Young America set, for instance, and see how it compares to the superb Crothers drawing.

Certainly worth checking out.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

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