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Drool-inducing news from Trumpeter

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  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Richmond, Va.
Posted by Pavlvs on Wednesday, December 26, 2012 1:01 PM

In the words of Wayne Campbell, "It will be mine, oh yes, it will be mine!"

Deus in minutiae est. Fr. Pavlvs

On the Bench: 1:200 Titanic; 1:16 CSA Parrott rifle and Limber

On Deck: 1/200 Arizona.

Recently Completed: 1/72 Gato (as USS Silversides)

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: Sarasota, FL
Posted by RedCorvette on Friday, December 21, 2012 9:07 AM

Ray Marotta

I seem to remember a FSM article from YEARS back that described building  cage masts out of

plastic and piano wire.  If I remember correctly, the process was similar to lacing a spoked bicycle wheel...

All the best

Ray

I think I remember that article also.  As I recall, the builder used a clear acrylic "core" and then applied wire and/or stretched sprue to it in the weave pattern to respresent the cage structure.  It was an adaptation of the technique used for WWI aircraft wire wheels where photoetched spokes are applied to either side of a clear disc, giving the appearance of a spoked wheel, but with the clear disc supplying the structural strength.

Mark

 

FSM Charter Subscriber

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 1:43 AM

docidle

Heck, I would even try my hand on this I have always loved this class of battleships.  I just wish they would make it in 1/350!  Thanks for the heads up John.

Steve

Ditto I just don't think I could handle 1/350 with my limited skills. Better to start on something smaller first.

I've wanted to see this class of vessel for years. Now they need a Tennessee too.

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Michigan
Posted by ps1scw on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:50 AM

TURRET TOPS: BLACK BLACK TRUE BLUE - IT'LL LOOK NICE WITH 5D/5L

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Saturday, November 24, 2012 7:12 PM

Now that I think of it, I remember seeing several resin kits of American battleships with cage masts years ago.  It seems that the manufacturers included wood "formers" and slightly didtorted thye photoetch patterns for the cages so that they would fit around the formers appropriately.  Hi-Molds used to make a 1/700 series of Colorado class ships, and Yankee Modelworks did the same in 1/350. I remember seeing the same system for shaping the cages in both scales. And, they seemed to work.

Bill

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Michigan
Posted by ps1scw on Friday, November 23, 2012 11:58 AM

It would be very nice if it were a 2 in 1 kit....able to build either the Maryland or West Virginia...I'm sure a number of folks with purchase 2 so they could make both.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:53 PM

As with several of you, I, too, would welcome a 1/350 kit of both the Trumpeter USS Maryland, and the HMS Queen Elizabeth/Warspite in their original configurations.

Bill

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, November 22, 2012 8:01 AM

Thanks to GMorrison for the vocabulary clarification.  He's exposed for all the world to see the fact that I don't really know much about math. 

My understanding of how the cage masts were built dates back to a couple of conversations - probably about 40 years ago - with my father, who was an architect (and very knowledgeable about math).  We were looking at a huge "sculpture" in a local (Columbus, Ohio) shopping mall; it consisted of a bunch of steel rods that ran from the floor to the ceiling.  They were installed in a circle on the floor of the mall and in another circle in the ceiling, and they were tilted in such a way that the result was a subtly curved shape, narrower at one point near the top than at the floor or the ceiling.  Dad explained (at least I thought this was what he said) that it was a hyperbolic paraboloid, which was one of the few geometric structures that used straight lines to produce a curve.  (I guess he must have actually said "hyperboloid."  Dad wouldn't make a mistake like that.) 

I told him it reminded me of the cage masts of the old American battleships.  (Dad was a WWII Navy vet.)  When we got home we looked up some photos of the ships in question, and sure enough....

At first glance, photo-etching does seem like an obvious way to reproduce such a structure.  But I see problems there.  If I'm not mistaken, the platform at the top of the mast is smaller in diameter than the circle that forms the bottom of it.  Maybe it would be geometrically possible to design a flat piece that could be rolled up into the right shape, but the more I think about it the less confident I am.  When I try to visualize what that flattened-out shape would look like, my non-mathematical brain hits overload.

In the Maryland's case the foremast should be simpler.  The "basket" section is shorter, and appears to be a cylinder.  But the mainmast....

I'll be very interested to see how Trumpeter handles this little problem.  Now that I've thought about it a bit I'm not sure it can be done with a piece of etched metal.  I want to see just how Trumpeter does it before I lay out the cash for the kit.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    March 2006
Posted by TD4438 on Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:47 AM

I'm hoping for a 1/350 version myself.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 10:39 PM

Crud- 1/700. Didn't catch that in the initial Trumpeter web announcement.

I'll wait for the 1/350 version.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: NW Washington
Posted by dirkpitt77 on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 9:07 PM

Holy cow. I've been looking for an affordable way to build a USS Colorado for a while. Maybe this is the ticket.

    "Some say the alien didn't die in the crash.  It survived and drank whiskey and played poker with the locals 'til the Texas Rangers caught wind of it and shot it dead."

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 11:53 AM

Heck, I would even try my hand on this I have always loved this class of battleships.  I just wish they would make it in 1/350!  Thanks for the heads up John.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 7:44 AM

Not only a great subject, but the box art is beautiful. USS Maryland:

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:46 PM

Cage masts may be the great challenge of the age. The Navy called them "lattice masts" and they are almost unique to the USN. They were also used quite a bit on shore batteries. Their purpose was to elevate gun sighting stations, long before the units we call gun directors that had positive mechanical linkages to the control rooms below.

The design seems to have been advantageous for two reasons.

First; resistance to battle damage. Repeated hits from fairly close range by large shells didn't topple them. Tripod masts had been developed in England earlier, but were susceptible to defeat by a single hit.

Second; absorbance of vibration from main battery fire recoil. This had mixed results, mainly due to their area as opposed to rigidity.

The design is a hyperboloid. Take two circles connected by Z ordinates only and rotate.

A hyperbolic paraboloid rotates two circles, or parallel line pairs (boxes) though Y and Z. The most familiar of those is the Pringle potato chip.

I agree with John T that the solution to this problem would be a milestone in model ship building for those of us who like early steam. Over a couple of dozen years admiring ship models first hand, every lattice mask I've seen represents long nights with the soldering gun, wire clippers and the inevitable uncorking of the Rum bottle.

Toms Model Works and maybe others have sold photo etched (PE) lattice masks over the years. IIRC they are already a conical shape laid flat, and are meant to be rolled and joined, but not twisted.

Tilley makes a sensible suggestion in twisting the shape. My only caution would be that the intersections of a PE part would probably not bend from a cross to a "x" too readily without kinking, and that would be a manifold problem.

I think that the new "3D printing" technology may be useful. Where a laser draws a pattern on a surface of a liquid, creating a solid, and the solid is lowered on a little platform into the liquid while the laser adds layers and layers of solid. All driven by a 3D program model.

In any case, any BB in plastic launched prior to WW2 is always welcome news.

In 1942 she was painted overall 5N cage masts and all.

That's a SHIP!

I will also be buying this model. I am not too familiar with the Pearl Harbor battleships, but it would seem that West Virginia could be built from this model as well (?).

EDIT:

When I was a little boy, a favorite trip was to China Town in San Francisco in the 1950's. A toy sold along Grant Avenue in the shops was a "Chinese Handcuff". It was a tube of twisted hemp mesh about 6" long by 1" in diameter. Stick your index fingers in each end and pull apart! Locked! A perfect hyperboloid.

Of course the best toys were the "Chinese puzzles". Complicated interlocking wood models that could be taken apart and hopefully put back together,

George

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Lyons Colorado, USA
Posted by Ray Marotta on Tuesday, November 20, 2012 4:51 PM

I seem to remember a FSM article from YEARS back that described building  cage masts out of

plastic and piano wire.  If I remember correctly, the process was similar to lacing a spoked bicycle wheel...

All the best

Ray

 ]

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Drool-inducing news from Trumpeter
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:58 AM

WWII U.S. battleship enthusiasts (and Pearl Harbor buffs) will find this page from the Trumpeter website interesting.  Scroll down to the second item on the list.

http://www.trumpeter-china.com/a/en/news/20121111/2271.html

It's often struck me that those old cage masts would be a near-ideal subject for photo-etching.  If I remember right, the real things were hyperbolic paraboloids.  That means it should be possible to etch the part as a rectangle, roll it up around a mandrel, and twist one end to get the exactly-correct curvature.

This one's on my To-Buy list.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

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