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Dust: More Vexing than a Scourge of Shipworms or a Hull Fouled By Marine Weeds

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  • Member since
    May 2008
Posted by tucchase on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 1:32 AM

One further consideration if you are using glass is breakage.  Regular glass breaks into shards and splinters that will pierce your skin, and your model, in many different ways.  Tempered glass will crumble into granules about the size of the thickness of the glass.  Much safer for you, and your model, But more expensive.  I have bought tempered glass that was as much as twice the price of an equivalent thickness regular glass, but I have also found some that was just a couple dollars more for a 3/16" thick 22" X 22".  It really pays to shop around.  Check used store fixture stores for old glass shelves and table tops.  These are nearly always tempered. If you don't find a piece of the size you need, you must custom order it.  You cannot cut tempered glass after it has been tempered.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 10:01 PM

In my post in this thread of January 18 I mentioned a line of small-to-medium-sized molded plastic display cases that I think are particularly good (because the ejection pin marks are really inconspicuous.  At that time my senile brain couldn't remember the name of the manufacturer.

I looked it up.  The company is called Collector's Museum.  The only place where I've found these things is the local A.C. Moore's Arts and Crafts Store.  I did a Google search on "Collector's museum display cases; the best result was this one:  www.youtube.com/watch .  I haven't found a site for the company itself - and the A.C. Moore website doesn't mention it.  But if you have an A.C. Moore store in your vicinity, these cases are worth checking out.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    January 2005
Posted by stevebagley on Monday, January 21, 2013 12:11 PM

Some years ago I read a book on building models of square riggers to a high standard and the author advocated cleaning them by hosing them down gently with water . I have 3 large models , 2 Matchbox corvettes and a Billings schooner, and when they did become filthy , I tried this method with modifications . Firsly , I placed the models in the bath tub ,then airbrushed them with a washing up liquid/water mix . I then gently used the shower head ( cold , not hot!) , to clear all the froth off .Done carefully this really does clear off a horrifying amount of dirt .It also deals with cobwebs in the rigging. This does sound a bit violent but provided your model is not water soluble i.e. untreated paper , PVA glue , and you procede with care it does work.Leave the model to dry for an hour or so ,making sure no water is trapped inside,and you should have a clean ship with no water marks. I have done this several times without damage.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, January 21, 2013 8:52 AM

Thanks, subfixer.  I should have put that one at the top of the list.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Monday, January 21, 2013 7:51 AM

And, of course, Plexiglass is much softer than glass resulting in a surface that is much easier to scratch.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, January 21, 2013 1:41 AM

The idea of lifting the vitrine (that's the transparent part of the case) off the base in order to get the model out is pretty common.  It's not so bad if the case isn't too big. 

Come to think of it, the stupidest case I've ever seen was built like that.  At the Mariners' Museum there's a model representing the liners President Coolidge and President Hoover.  It's on the scale of 1/4" = 1', so it's somewhere between 12 and 15 feet long.  The vitrine has a frame of stainless steel.  In order to open it, the staff has to bring up two big steel lifting frames from one of the storerooms and screw them to the sides of the bottom of the frame.  Then rent a couple of chain hoists.  The case gets moved (carefully) around the room until the two hoisting frames are directly in line with one of the steel ceiling beams.  Two staff members get on tall ladders and hook the chain hoists to the ceiling beams.  Then, with a third person watching from some distance to be sure the vitrine doesn't get tilted, the two guys on the ladders wind up the chain hoists and lift the vitrine off the base.  That's the silliest, and scariest, exercise connected with ship models that I've ever heard of.  The one time we did it while I was there, the museum director came back from lunch just as we were lowering the vitrine back into place.  He took one look at what we were doing, turned three shades of white, and shut himself in his office.

Plexiglas (or acrylic; "Plexiglas" is actually a trade name) and glass both have their advantages and disadvantages. 

Advantages of plexiglas: 

1.  It's easier (for most people) to cut than glass.  (The human race is divided into two groups of people:  those who find it easy to use a glass cutter and those who don't.  I'm in the latter category.)  It can be cut either with a table saw or by the "scribe, pray, and crack" method.) 

2.  Plexiglas is harder to break (and if it does break it won't bust up into model-destroying or human-mutilating slivers). 

3.  It's relatively easy to glue at the corners, thereby avoiding wood or metal framework around the vitrine.  (Some people, including, it seems, the majority of trained exhibition designers nowadays, think such frames are categorically ugly.)  You can make joints in plexiglas yourself with a solvent cement.  The joints will look slightly grey and probably have tiny bubbles here and there.  The case manufacturers have various techniques (involving expensive equipment) to make the joints perfectly clear.

Disadvantages of plexiglas: [See also subfixer's post below.]

1.  It's more expensive than glass.  (For my little Phantom's case the difference was negligible.  The plexiglas to make a case for a 1/96 Constitution probably would cost at least $100 more than the equivalent amount of glass.)

2.  Plexiglas is a little bit flexible.  It comes in many different thicknesses (the price increasing in direct proportion to the thickness; 1/4" plexiglas costs twice as much per square foot as 1/8" plexiglas).  My guess is that if a vitrine for the big Constitution were made of plexiglas less than 1/4" thick, the top would sag in the middle.  (For my little Phantom case I used 1/8" plexiglas.  A drawback to that is that if the joints in such thin material are made in the corners, those joints will be really weak.  That's why that case has a wood frame around the vitrine.  If you're going to glue the corners you really shouldn't go under 3/16".  I made the vitrine for my scratchbuilt Hancock, about 2' long, out of 3/16" plexiglas, and glued the corners.  A joint has opened up a couple of times.  That's easy enough to fix, but scary.  From now on I either use 1/4" plexiglas or make a wood frame for the vitrine.)

3.  Glass is a bit easier to keep clean and shiny, using Windex or something similar.  Windex is a mild solvent for plexiglas; if you use it regularly for several months the vitrine will start looking dull and slightly grey.  (Use a little dishwashing detergent mixed with a bucket of water instead.)

4.  Strange things happen when light - especially sunlight - shines through plexiglas.  It would take a physicist to explain exactly why, but UV light (a particularly big component of sunlight) passing through plexiglas generates tiny electrical charges.  Those charges are particularly devastating to lead; a piece of lead inside a plexiglas vitrine is likely (though not certain) to develop "lead disease."  (That's one reason I never put lead - including lead-based solder - in a model.)  It also makes things happen to pieces of thread that aren't firmly secured.  And I think it fades paint faster.

The environment in which the case is to live introduces other considerations.  A curator at the Franklin Institute Science Museum, in Philadelphia, told me that every case in that institution has to be built to withstand the impact of a five-year-old taking a running dive at it from a distance of twenty feet.  At the Mariners' Museum things weren't quite that bad; I don't recall any case being busted by a visitor during the three years I worked there.

Some modelers (and museums) like plexiglas cases; some prefer glass.  You pays your money - quite a bit of it if your model's sizable - and you takes your choice.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Sunday, January 20, 2013 5:47 PM

That's a very intriguing design idea!

The one I bought has the same danger you mentioned, with an upper glass pane that is lifted up from the top frame, and then I had to precariously dangle the Swan and lower it into the case...there were, fortunately, no tragic issues to report.

The instructional book I bought calls for building the base separately from the stanchions and *skyframe* (upper frame)...the entire empty case is lifted off of the base, the model is placed on the base, and then the 5-sided enclosure can be lowered onto the base, and rests within the bordered base.  Pretty neat, but I think it might be more complicated (and more expensive) than your design.  

Tell me, is plexiglass easier/cheaper to work with than glass?  Would it work for a larger-scale case, such as for a 1/96 Constitution?

Like I said, I don't have a lot of experience working with close-tolerance wood projects....maybe I'll need to just pick up some scrap wood and start experimenting...

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, January 20, 2013 4:44 PM

One other strong suggestion about cases:  if you're building your own, pay close attention to how the model gets in and out.

I've seen and heard about quite a few awful incidents of ship models in cases being sliced up or otherwise severely damaged - in museums and elsewhere.  (I was involved in two such episodes when I was working in a maritime museum.)  Every single one of them happened when the model was being taken out of or put into its case.

Most of the published case designs I've seen haven't taken that problem into enough consideration.  (I don't know about the one Dave found.)  The worst design I've seen was designed to open at the top.  Presumably the modeler was supposed to dangle the ship by its masthead as he put it in.  Ridiculous.

My most successful effort at case building is the one I made for my Model Shipways-based pilot schooner Phantom.  The case has cherry sides, ends, uprights at the corners, and frame around the top.  The wood side pieces at the bottom are about three inches high.  They're glued to a plywood bottom that sits close to the bottom of the sides, with cheap poplar (pine would have worked) strips screwed and glued to the plywood and the sides for support.  (Never trust a glue joint on the edge of a piece of plywood - or a screw or nail driven into it.)  One end is built so it slides out the bottom.  The model is mounted on another piece of plywood, this one covered with cherry veneer.  That baseboard slides into the case from the end.  The case is completely sturdy and free-standing when the model and its baseboard aren't in it.  There are cherry moldings (made with the table saw and router) on the sides to keep the model base from sliding up, and strips of poplar glued and screwed inside to keep it from falling down.

To take the model out of the case, you put it on a table with the opening end overhanging the edge of the table.  Turn two fittings hidden underneath (I used cheap retainers made to hold window screens), and slide the end, complete with plexiglas, out the bottom.  Then move the case to the middle of the table, and slide the model and baseboard out.  There's no danger that you'll bang one of the masts on the way out.

The thing took me about two days to build (plus drying time for the polyurethane finish), and cost less than a hundred bucks - including the plexiglas.  I bought the cherry from Woodcraft and the plexiglas from Lowe's.  (The two pieces of plywood were lying around my workshop.)

Other advantages to this design:  it's far heavier at the bottom than at the top (for stability), and several generations of members of our ship model club have been unable, when looking at it from the normal angles, to figure out how to open it.  And opening or closing it requires no tools.  I'm thinking about ways to make my next one better, but I think I'm on the right track.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Sunday, January 20, 2013 4:00 PM

Interesting...I just assumed that most people kept their ships in cases after building them, but I guess occasionally dusting them could preserve their condition (for a time), and save a LOT of money.  I have been shocked at the cost of display cases, and would never be able to jusify 400-500 for one...I was lucky enough to find a wooden ship within a case for sale on craigslist last year....bought it for 140, sold the ship out of it for 50 (on craigslist!) and now I have a suitable glass and wood case that currently accommodates the Black Swan.  However, I know I'll want at least a couple more cases by the time my *stash* is depleted, so I looked around and found an eBook online for 12.00 that describes how to build a model ship case, and I plan to use it to attempt building a case for the Santa Maria when she's done.  I'm not much of a woodworker, but I have access to the tools in the guide, so I guess I'll give it a whirl.  The author estimates ~50 bucks for the wood from Home Depot (or similar), and then he suggests taking the completed frame and base to a glass shop and having panes professionally installed, which I'm guessing would be a little more spendy (maybe 100-150?)...but all told, I might be looking at $200, which I could probably get away with...we'll see...maybe I'll keep a log of my attempt on the forum, if anyone would be interested in seeing my trial, error, and eventual success!

Anyway, Isaac, I dig your enthusiasm!  Do you have another build in the works??  I think I suggested to you before, if you want to get obsessed with another kit, you might try Heller's Victory...I hear it's a monumental timesink!!

-Davey Jones  

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: West Virginia, USA
Posted by mfsob on Sunday, January 20, 2013 3:17 PM

The captain obviously doesn't have cats *laughs*

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Sunday, January 20, 2013 11:11 AM

GMorrison

I use my airbrush...

I do too. I have a bottle/siphon feed, so I remove the bottle, blow for awhile to make sure all thinner is then expelled, and use it for an air source.  Sometimes stubborn dust needs to be loosened with a fine brush, but the airbrush blast blows it away then.  I use about 15 to 20 psi.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, January 20, 2013 1:05 AM

Ah, perhaps what you must needs do, is take a step back in case technology.

For Connie, if memory serves rightly, you could adopt a pane size of 16-18" wide and 30-33" long.  These panes would then receive a simple wooden frame, so that they would form a sash.  With some careful adjusting of the dimensions, one sash would suffice for the ends, and three for the front and back, all identical in size..  

The base  would then have a raised bottom and a moulding to make a dado into which the bottom of the sash would fit.  The top of the case would have a dado (to help keep the top slim in thickness.  The top could be rabbeted (or dadoed) for its own glass pane as well.

Making the outside moulding on the base removable--by way od dowels or the like--would allow slipping the sashes from the structure of the case.

two or three sides of the case could be fixed to the top and bottom, and only the three face sashes removable.  The model on it's base could then be slid from its protective case as needed.

That's my ta'pence at least; you'd need £2 more for a happy meal.

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Saturday, January 19, 2013 6:03 PM

Capt Hull...I build lots of nautical themed dioramas and lighthouse scenes as well as my ship models...I always use air and it works very well..when placed directly and carefully.......good luck and fair weather and calm seas.

Rob

  • Member since
    July 2012
Posted by Captain Isaac Hull on Saturday, January 19, 2013 11:03 AM
Gentlemen,

Thank you for the solutions involving a shell of glass or "plastic", (a material which is unknown to me.) the suggestions are appreciated. However, the suggestions involving "air and brush" are most likely the methods I must embrace.
But I do know of this "Cadillac Plastics" company. No doubt named after Antoine Laumet de La Mothe, sieur de Cadillac. The colorful, French explorer, trapper and a trader of alcohol who founded Fort Pontchartrain du Détroit in 1710. A place that my uncle William Hull now commands.

However, my wish is to not contain this ship. I would prefer to allow my crew to move about at times as I see fit. For purposes of "fiction". Enclosing it, despite the possibility of the ability to open it, is not my goal at this time. But I may pursue that option in the future.

Thank you again,
Isaac Hull
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Saturday, January 19, 2013 9:47 AM

See if you have a company called GE polymers (used to be cadillac plastics) they make a one piece case (you provice the base) clear moulded, no seams, I order them for clients.  They have a local shop and dependign on the size you wnat capt, I can inquire for a "Tot of Rum".

.GE Polymer Shapes

.5600 Jefferson Hwy, New Orleans, LA 70123

(504) 734-3211

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: West Virginia, USA
Posted by mfsob on Friday, January 18, 2013 11:46 AM

If you really care about your model, contact this guy: http://www.grandpascabinets.com/ Yes, it might be expensive, but it will be, as they say, the "final solution."

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, January 18, 2013 11:39 AM

The best way to deal with the dust problem obviously is to keep the dust from getting to the model in the first place.  If you're proud of a model and want it to last, you need to put it in a case.

If the model isn't very big, quite a few reasonably-priced, ready-made cases are on the market.  Trumpeter and various other companies offer them through hobby websites.  Such cases are made of injection-molded clear plastic, with black plastic bases.

The big problem with these things is that the plastic has to enter the mold somewhere.  Every one of the cheaper ones I've seen has, in the center of its top, either a conspicuous blob of plastic or, in the Trumpeter ones I've seen, a conspicuous rectangle where the blob was sheered off.  Such cases are fine for simply protecting the model, but not so good for display in a living room.

The best little cases I've found are made by a company whose name my senile brain can't remember (I'll check when I get home this evening) [see later post, below] and are sold by the A.C. Moore Arts and Crafts chain.  I've bought a couple of them.  Each has four circular ejection pin marks, about 1/8" in diameter, in the corners of the top.  I might not have noticed them if I hadn't been looking for them.  It might well be possible to get rid of them with rubbing compound; I haven't tried it.  They come in a wide variety of sizes.  Some are intended to hold 1/18 or 1/18 diecast car models; the smallest one is designed to hold a baseball, and the largest a football.  Some of the bases are plastic; others are black-laquered particle board. The prices are a little higher than the competitors'; the biggest, if I remember right, costs about $40.00.  If you have an A.C. Moore's within driving distance (I couldn't find the cases on the company website), and your model will fit, these things are worth checking out.

For a good-sized sailing ship there are three obvious options.  One is to buy a curio cabinet at a furniture store.  My wife and I found a nice one (about five feet high, with three glass shelves) for about $150.00.  It holds about a dozen of my finished (not very big) models.

Option 2 is to buy a kit to build a case.  Model Expo and Bluejacket both sell such kits; I imagine there are other sources too.  Bluejacket offers custom kits, made to the customer's required dimensions.  They aren't cheap; a case for a 1/96 Constitution would cost between $300 and $400 (not including the glass or plexiglas, which you'll have to buy locally).   But if you think carefully about it you'll probably conclude that your model is worth it (if your Significant Other will go along with the concept).

The third option is to build a case yourself.  That isn't exactly cheap - but a lot cheaper than the big kits.  You need to start with a good design, which you can work up yourself if you enjoy such things.  (I've encountered several case designs in books, but I can't say I've found one I like.)  The most important tool in making a case is a table saw.  You also need some means of cutting tight miters (though I strongly recommend keeping them to a minimum - on grounds of strength).  To make a really nice-looking case, a router is highly desirable.  I bought a little Ryobi "trim router" at Home Depot for about $100; it meets all the needs I have in model building.  Lee Valley sells a series of beautiful little miniature molding bits that are just the ticket.

I strongly recommend putting any model on which you've invested considerable time and effort in a case.  The initial cost may be off-putting, but think how many hours you've invested in the model.  Dust will wreck it eventually.  A cat or a two-year-old can destroy it in a few seconds.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    July 2012
Posted by Captain Isaac Hull on Friday, January 18, 2013 9:19 AM

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for your suggestions. I will embrace these methods with all expedience.

Thank you again,

Captain Isaac Hull

View Captain Hull's "Ship's Log" and other Age of Sail content at  www.facebook.com/isaac.hull.58

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Thursday, January 17, 2013 3:10 PM

Use cans of air..used for the computer..it blows the dust off even the lines...so as long as you do it often..do NOT tip the cans the propelant will exit and you will freeze stuff.

Good luck

Rob

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:17 PM

He might blow the men down!  Indifferent

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:05 PM

I use my airbrush...

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Thursday, January 17, 2013 10:20 AM

As long as you continue to leave it uncovered you are going to suffer this. A photographer's lens brush with a puffer works. Start at the top and work your way down to the decks, then it's "Sweepers, sweepers, man your brooms, give the ship a clean sweep fore and aft, sweep down all lower decks, ladders and passageways. Now Sweepers!" But as a captain, you already knew that.

http://goatlocker.org/sound/sweepers.wav

http://goatlocker.org/sound/Sweepers.wav

Pirate

Lee

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    July 2012
Dust: More Vexing than a Scourge of Shipworms or a Hull Fouled By Marine Weeds
Posted by Captain Isaac Hull on Thursday, January 17, 2013 8:52 AM

Gentlemen,

My fine ship is beginning to suffer in appearance from the dogged persistence of airborne Dust. 

Of course, being of sound mind, I already know the solution would be to enclose this vessel in a glass shell.

But I have no wish to do so. 

Knowing you all to be quite experienced in these matters, I seek your expertise:

In what manner should I clean the hull, the decks, the rigging?

Sincerely, 

Captain Isaac Hull

View Captain Hull's "Ship's Log" and other Age of Sail content at  www.facebook.com/isaac.hull.58

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