Lucia Simpson

Nice start there, Mr. Stauffer. I hope you'll post pics as you build---I've never scratchbuilt with wood, so I'm interested to see how you progress.

Two questions: what scale will she be, and what sort of wood do you prefer for your hulls?

Now I know what I'm doing wrong. Always did my B and B vertically.

looking good Mr. D

If I can afford it, basswood is the best carving wood.  However, it can be expensive for a large kit.  Great Lakes ships have very full hulls (high prismatic coefficient- so-called "barge" hull shape, so not as much carving required as an ocean vessel.  So for the lakers I sometimes use cheaper stuff.  Poplar carves nice, and Aspen, similar to Poplar, is quite available in local building improvement stores at very good prices. I have to find my basswood at hobby shops, which is much more expensive.

I have even used clear pine when it was available at a good price, but it is not quite as easy to carve, and regular prices are quite high.

If you want to spend lots of money there is a foam plastic used for pattern making, but it is so expensive that I only use it for very small models or for patterns for parts for resin casting.

Basswood is God's gift to the wood carver.

Thanks for the tip on Basswood.

Looks good, Don.

Have you ever tried pink insulation foam for a hull?

Great Lakes ships are not a  popular subject matter for the injection plastic companies, which, in my opinion, is too bad. A whale back freighter is an interesting ship, it would make an interesting model of the great lakes fleet.

The term  "Great Lakes" is a misnomer, they should have been called the "Inland Seas". I'm from the East Coast and traveling west I imagined the next time I would view a vast expanse of water was when I hit the left coast. Seeing Lake Michagan was, for me, a breath taking experience. As a salt water sailor, it's one thing to hear or read about the "lakes" but it's another thing to actually view them  up close. I felt it was like the rest of the country was washed away and Chicago was the new Pacific Coast, very impressive and an unexpected experience.

No, never tried insulation.  Wouldn't it be a big job filling the pores to get a good finish?  The woods I use are cheap enough when compared to large scale kits.  There IS a resin ship of the Fitz available.

You have to visit Duluth!  I consider it the San Francisco of the midwest- very hilly city overlooking a large harbor, with a big expanse of water outside the harbor.

Fine start to what I'm sure will be an impressive model.  I can suggest another, slightly cheaper source for big pieces of basswood:  the Woodcraft woodworker supply company.  Here's a link:  http://www.woodcraft.com/search2/search.aspx?query=basswood .  I've been dealing with Woodcraft for quite a few years, and have always been more than satisfied with its products and service.  The company sells lots of stuff that's useful for modelers - and a fine selection of domestic and exotic woods.  (It's a great place to get maple and cherry, for instance.  Woodcraft doesn't sell the basswood strips that hobby shops carry, but if you've got a table saw you can cut up the bigger pieces.

I'm lucky enough to have a Woodcraft store within driving distance (about two hours away, in Raleigh).  Here's a link to the "store locator" page:  http://www.woodcraft.com/Stores/Default.aspx .  Looks like the one closest to Mr. Stauffer is in Minneapolis.

Mr. Morrison - there's nothing wrong with arranging bread-and-butter "lifts" vertically.  In fact that method has some advantages.  Some fine modelers swear by it.  To each his own.

Gents,

When gluing these stacks together, it seems some layers will not stay in alignment under the clamp load; or do you screw/nail the layers?  What glue is good for these laminations that will be sandable, etc?  

I have stalled on an overly ambitious B and B project using a material that I think Don Stauffer is referring to. It's a product called Balsa Foam and is a very dense block of phenolic resin made into a sort of dense open cell foam. It shapes well, but it was very expensive and I am sure the dust is horrible stuff so I have to work with a mask. Also I have no idea how I will seal it once it has been shaped. In hindsight I should have started with a smaller project rather than CV-8.

I look forward to following this build as it may inspire me, and I like the subject.

Don Stauffer

Wouldn't it be a big job filling the pores to get a good finish?

You'd want an underlayment-grade foam, which are almost always closed-cell foams.

Underlayment grade means high compressive strength, in the building trade that means carrying floor loads, having concrete poured upon and the like.

Foams are either open-cell or closed-cell.  The simplest way to describe the difference is that , in open-sell foams the "bubbles" that make the foam are allowed to "pop" as the foam extrudes.  Open-cell foams are vapor-permeable, which is of great significance in the construction trade. 

The difference in the modeling world is that open-cell foams are cheaper, and the more open pores are better for adhering groundwork and the like.  Closed cell foam, especially the 2#/cf ones are going to have a very fine finish. 

But,  like as not, a foam hull would wind up "planked" or "plated" to get a more-ideal model finish.

CapnMac82

Don Stauffer

Wouldn't it be a big job filling the pores to get a good finish?

You'd want an underlayment-grade foam, which are almost always closed-cell foams.

Underlayment grade means high compressive strength, in the building trade that means carrying floor loads, having concrete poured upon and the like.

Foams are either open-cell or closed-cell.  The simplest way to describe the difference is that , in open-sell foams the "bubbles" that make the foam are allowed to "pop" as the foam extrudes.  Open-cell foams are vapor-permeable, which is of great significance in the construction trade. 

The difference in the modeling world is that open-cell foams are cheaper, and the more open pores are better for adhering groundwork and the like.  Closed cell foam, especially the 2#/cf ones are going to have a very fine finish. 

But,  like as not, a foam hull would wind up "planked" or "plated" to get a more-ideal model finish.

Thanks.

I generally do not plank or plate over the hull.  I like to model well worked/used ships with a lot of paint.  After a few coats the planking seams seem to fill up.  Sometimes I scribe in a few lines just to represent areas where paint doesn't completely obscure seams between planks or plates.  Paint in olden days didn't weather very well, so painting was a frequent task and the paint got pretty thick on those old timers.

Back in the dark ages (early '80s) when a down town model was needed to show a new building in context, using one of the then-newfangled hot wire tables was a slick way to recreate adjacent buildings quickly.

In those days, though, all we had was medium-density 0.5-0.75#/cf open cell foam.  That wanted a coating of PVA before most primers of the day.  Although, we mostly used self-adhesive shelf paper to skip a step..

When the pace of things allowed, I experimented on some boat hull forms by cutting body plan profiles from bristol board and laminating them to scrap foam blocks one station thick.  The, used a hand wire cutter to cut down to the bristol through the foam.  The nichrome wire left a finish like a sharp blade does on wood--sanding made for fuzzies.  But, that's  what was needed for the nooks & crannies.  Best result there was thin gummed paper cut as diagonal planking and laid up just like 1:1 practice.  

In those less stringent days, with the sorts of foams available (ones that used heptane, butane, octane chemistry to "inflate" the bubbles, a person could "melt" the foam out of a hull, too.  Those were different days.  Modern forms  are far less flammable; some are virtually non-flammable.

If I can manage to get out from behind my financial eight-ball, I certainly hope to try some of all this out.

f8sader

Gents,

When gluing these stacks together, it seems some layers will not stay in alignment under the clamp load; or do you screw/nail the layers?  What glue is good for these laminations that will be sandable, etc?  

When I prepare the lifts I mark the center of circles on the centerlines, one about one third aft of bow, one about one third forward of stern.  I drill a pair of 3/16 holes in each lift.  I then put #10 machine screws (long ones) through the lifts after gluing, tightening the lifts together with washers and thumb nuts.  This has two functions- draws the lift together in lieu of clamps, and holds them in alignment.  The holes in the bottom are used for my mounting stanchions, the holes in the top lift will be covered over by the decking on wooden decked ships like the Simpson (I use Midwest decking sheets of basswood).  On steel decked models I stick a short length of dowel in the tops of the holes and sand off flush with the deck unless they are covered by hatches or other structure.

Perfect, thanks Don!

Well, I'm back working on the Simpson after a number of years of it on my shelf of doom.  New user name because I had trouble with my account and had to create new one.  Picture is the same.  By way of explanation of model it is a scratch built Great Lakes commercial three mast commercial sailing vessel, the last one in service on the lakes before she went down.

I am still working on the Langley, but at my age when I work with PE I can only do it for fifteen or twenty minutes at a time, then need a break.  The Simpson is now my break project.  No PE, just normal woodworking.  Photos of progress later in week.

Okay, here are some pics from today.  The hull is almost done. Just a few fills on bow and stern, and complete of the bulwarks, and she'll be ready for final paint.

While putty and paint were drying I worked on the cabin.  It is not glued in, just sitting in place.  I need a lot of cleanup yet- Having a hard time with the window frames.

I found a good picture of a model on line.  This is about what she should look like, except I will do furled sails.

Looking good Don! 

Jim 

Stay Safe.

Looking great Don. Cant wait to see the rest done.

Hi Don!

    Do you know of any wood carving groups around where you live? The reason I ask is this. I get my wood from a place in San Antonio that caters to wood carving clubs. so I am able to get larger stuff at a reasonable price. Check it out if you can. Sometimes, Specialty Wood suppliers for the furniture repair trade will have it too.

The lumber industry in this state is pretty active, so I don't have too much trouble buying wood.  Basswood in larger pieces is expensive, but I have learned to use other woods for large models.  Aspen and Poplar are excellent for carving.  Also Select quality pine is not very expensive in Minnesota, and used to be the normal carving wood before basswood became the standard.

Don,

I am most impressed!  Well done!

Bill

Got the major hull and bulwark work done now, and the first good coat of color paint on.  Stilll a few scratches, hollows and bumps now, but these can be fixed with sandpaper and small putty work.

Looks great.

Always gives me pause to consisder what it was like to get through the various GL locks and canals under sail.

nice work don , will be following along . lots to learn off of a build like this .

In between sessions on the Langley, I have made progress on the Simpson.  I have all the moldings and strakes on the bulwark areas, and got a good coat of white on her.  There are a few flaws yet- small ones, but I may just work it into some weathering.

Ollie the Owl is my new shop mascot, at least until I secure her outside to scare away the Woodpeckers!

CapnMac82

Looks great.

Always gives me pause to consisder what it was like to get through the various GL locks and canals under sail.

 

That is what the mules were for.