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Injection Molds - why they use them for decades?

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  • Member since
    August 2008
Posted by tankerbuilder on Saturday, August 31, 2013 5:43 PM

ARNIE60 - Hi !

       I have to commend all those who answered or tried to answer with J.Tilley coming closest . When I worked for AVECOR plastics in L.A. years ago we had the job of doing color pellets (a mixture of styrene and color pigment ) that was used to mix colors in the machines to allow color molding of products . A company (who shall remain unamed - they are still in business to my knowledge ) Sent us the equipment to make test shots at our plant instead of theirs .Result ,  some awesome models ! Now , the date of manufacture on those molds were 1948 ! This was in 1968 ! so you see the cost was such even back then many models would have to be made to cover the original outlay .  The model in question in the company's spare parts page in their catalogue was over forty dollars (in 1968 remember) per half ! So , you see they (the molds ) have been made of many different types of metals over the years but they are still way more than the cost of  one new house for one female / male pair ! There you have it !     Tanker - builder

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Thursday, August 29, 2013 10:10 PM

thunder1, i've got 6 pictures of her, 2 of a model & 4 in actual 4 gun configuration.

  • Member since
    May 2006
Posted by thunder1 on Thursday, August 29, 2013 1:59 PM

ddp59

Great minds think alike...I had planned to do the same with one of my Revell 327's....if it wasn't so time consuming to post pictures from a hosting site I'd post some WWII West Coast Navy yard photos of the TANEY in it's "4 turret" appearence. I believe I posted a few pics of my HAWK model 327 in a proposed guise on this site.There are drawings of the 327's of proposed configurations, one displays a aircraft hanger back aft....

Jtilley

Amen to all your observations on the current model situation, it's sad indeed....

Subfixer

Thanks for the 255' picture post, it's great! I sincerly believe that "Navy ships only" model builders would be interested in this ship if a model was offered in 1/350 scale. But we'll probably get another Yamato or PT 109, I built them 40 years ago, wish for something new....

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, August 29, 2013 10:53 AM

What bothers me about that nice old Revell "Treasury"-class kit is that the people who run Revell don't seem to understand what it is.  The announcement of its latest incarnation, a couple of years or so ago, described the Taney as an active unit of the Coast Guard.  (I can't quote the exact verbiage, because the kit seems to have disappeared from the Revell line - again.  But I think the blurb read something like "She is currently stationed on the Atlantic Sea Frontier.")  In fact, as everybody on this thread probably knows, the Taney was last decommissioned in 1986 and has been preserved as a museum ship in Baltimore Harbor for more than twenty-five years.

In other words, the management decided (for what obscure corporate reasons I have no idea) to reissue the kit without knowing anything about the real ship, and reused the advertising copy that had been written for an earlier re-release decades earlier.

I used the feedback option on the Revell website to send a comment on this - along with the observation that Revell was missing the boat in not promoting the kit as a replica of a ship people could actually visit.  I did not, of course, get a response.

I see evidence all over the place that modern plastic kit companies - especially American ones - are run by people who know virtually nothing about either scale modeling or the subject matter their kits represent.  Maybe I'm being a little over-charitable, but I strongly suspect the people at Revell have no idea what a ludicrous thing that "H.M.S. Beagle" kit is.  Or how incredibly primitive that poor old Iowa-class fossil is - even by comparison to other Revell and Monogram versions of the same class.  They just know it sells.

I find this disturbing.  It's been a problem for quite a few years now, and it's a miserable commentary on the way the industry has evolved.  The people who founded Revell, Monogram, Lindberg, etc. may not have had modern high-tech machinery, research sources, or computers at their disposal, but they demonstrated consistently that they understood the hobby (as it existed then) and were trying to advance it. 

There is reason for hope, though.  Take a look at the recent developments at Airfix.  Or Zvezda.  Or Eduard.  Or Dragon.  Or Wingnut Wings.   Some people are making a genuine - and successful - effort to advance the quality and sophistication of the industry.  But I'm afraid we're going to have to put up with deceptively-packaged kits from ancient molds for a long time - more specifically, for as long as the manufacturers think there's money to be made by selling them.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Wednesday, August 28, 2013 10:53 PM

thunder1, for a period of time during the war, the taney was actually configured with 4 - 5"38cal enclosed gun mounts like what the fletchers used. i intend to use 1 of my taney\campbell kits in that configuration.

  • Member since
    July 2012
  • From: Douglas AZ
Posted by littletimmy on Wednesday, August 28, 2013 7:53 PM

It would be nice if the molds were occasionally updated........

Revell's been using the same old moulds for U-99 and the kit was a dog when it was originally released.

This same kit is still being made today with the same moulds... with the same errors.

Oh sure... it can be made to look great.......    but you will need a gallon of "Bondo" to fill the gaps.

I'm not to upset with Revell  though......  their 1/144 scale subs are the bees knees !!!

 Dont worry about the thumbprint, paint it Rust , and call it "Battle Damage"

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Wednesday, August 28, 2013 5:36 PM

When I worked at Quality plastics in Newburg Oregon..they made plastic parts for ADEC dental chairs there in town and they made plastic model kits for an (Unknown) maker...I got lots of throw outs and stuff.  I don't know if they make injection models today.  It was fun in 1980.

Rob

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Wednesday, August 28, 2013 4:06 PM

USCGC Owasco WPB-39

Pretty Bad-Azz if you ask me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owasco_class_cutter

File:USCGC Owasco (WPG-39).jpg

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    May 2006
Posted by thunder1 on Wednesday, August 28, 2013 3:52 PM

ddp59

The photos of the model show it with the four enclosed 5" mounts, painted in measure 33 (I think) paint scheme. Don't misunderstand me on my last post, I plan to purchase a "TANEY" kit, it will look swell with my other twelve 327' cutters.

I served on the DUANE, BIBB, and CAMPBELL, yeah, I have a soft spot for the Treasury class cutters!

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:53 PM

thunder1, that niko model of the taney, is it with 1 enclosed 5" mount or 4 enclosed 5" mounts?

  • Member since
    May 2006
Posted by thunder1 on Wednesday, August 28, 2013 11:38 AM

Yes Ladies and Gentlemen, it's the "long green" that gets it done, no matter what the product.

BUT it makes one wonder what the model companies do for product development....Revell has been cranking out the USCGC CAMPBELL/TANEY since I was a youngster (many moons ago!) and it was/is a very accurate ship model. In my opinion it holds up in todays market as far as detail goes...I just read where Nikko is offering the USCGC TANEY in 1/350 scale.....it's configuration is in WWII guise, a little different from the Revell model. But why another 327' CG cutter? There has been the 56 year old Revell model, the Hawk company 327' model, the Commander series WWII version model, the two resin 1/700 models, and the old pre WWII wood model kit.

  A better ship model in 1/350 scale would be the USCG "LAKE" class cutter of WWII, a class of warship NEVER OFFERED AS A MODEL. At 255 feet it carried four 5" guns, two quad forty mounts, six 20mm, hedge hogs, depth charge, and k guns, making it the most heavily armed (for its size) American ship in WWII.. This class of ship served in Vietnam, during Korea and WWII, yet no one makes a model of it go figure...I'm afraid the "Treasury class" is the CG version of a PT boat in the model world....model companies should off the Taney in 1/35 scale like the PT boats, at least it would be different!  

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Wednesday, August 28, 2013 9:00 AM

Money!  The cost of the molds is substantial. It represents a major investment for the company.  They want to get as much return as they can for that investment.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: State of Mississippi. State motto: Virtute et armis (By valor and arms)
Posted by mississippivol on Tuesday, August 27, 2013 8:47 PM

Revell USA seems to have taken a different tack lately, though. Their F-5E in 1/48 was molded in Poland according to the box side info, and their MiG 29, and another kit on the shelf of Hobby Lobby says that they were molded here in the states.

Glenn

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Tuesday, August 27, 2013 8:40 PM

Most companies today farm out their actual production runs to plastic injection specialists. Even Tamiya's factory is in the Philippines, for example. Granted, some companies due their due diligence to make sure that they choose a top-notch company (Tamiya being one). But I think both RoG and Revell USA are shipping their molds to China for the actual runs.

Tracy White Researcher@Large

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Tuesday, August 27, 2013 6:10 PM

That's pretty neat!  I've always wanted to go to say, Revell's factory and see if they offered tours of the facility....it would be cool to see how they do it...

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Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Tuesday, August 27, 2013 1:52 PM

The old molds that the model companies used a decade or so and earlier weren't as sophistically produced as the ones in the video.

Here is a hot link to Arnie's link above.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seZqq1qxW30

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    June 2012
Injection Molds - why they use them for decades?
Posted by arnie60 on Tuesday, August 27, 2013 1:32 PM

I was thinking the other day about why we end up w/ models out there that are still using molds that are decades old. No doubt the popularity (sales) of any particular model would influence whether or not it would justify the cost of making new molds. Of course that made me think "Just how much can they possibly cost for cryin' out loud?". Following that thought, I dug up this video on YouTube about making plastic molds. Considering the materials and the process involved, it makes a little more sense. If nothing else, it's just interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seZqq1qxW30

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