Capstan spokes (arms?): how long should they be?

Great explanation, G-Mo. Thanks!

It is probably a good time for an explanation of what's becoming a somewhat archane conversation. While I am no expert, I will offer some insight for the new capital ship modelers as to what all of this anchor setting and weighing mechanics mean.

Those of you with rum on your breath can sit back and chortle.

While Constitution was a frigate by nature, she was a kick butt one and an equal if not superior to the fighting ships of her time. Like when the Phantom II arrived in Vietnam. But I digress.

The anchorage of a ship of that size and power was an operation that was started by gravity but ended by shear human power.

She had anchors totalling 2 to 3 tons, but she also set them on long cables (hemp ropes) that weighed about twice that when wet.

In general, these cables were stowed in the lowest part of a ship, in an area called the cable tier. They were layed out on gratings from which a lot of water drained. They were really big, as in 20 to 24 inches in diameter.

When hauled in, they did not themselves wrap around the machine (capstan) that provided power.

They were lashed with short pieces of line to a fairly large line called a messenger. The messenger was wrapped around the capstan and went from a series of big posts in the bows to the capstan, and back again in a closed circuit. Boys lashed the cable to the messenger as the cable came aboard with nips (they were nippers) and others unlashed the two as they approached the capstan. The cable went down to the tiers and the messenger went around the capstan and back to the bows.

The capstan was a one, two or even three deck affair, that was connected by a vertical axle. There were pawls, ratchets, that kept it from regressing.

Here's my representation from my Victory on the middle gun deck. I've been critiqued every way on several forums, but you get the idea. In the pic, the messenger is under tension.

You can also see that the port cable is somewhat looped around a really stout structure, the anchor bitt, because it will take the load of the ship at anchor.

In the Bay here, the ebb and flow is usually about 5 knots plus-minus in and out of the 'Gate, but the wind is anywhere from nothing to 30 knots steady in from the northwest- west. Ships in the anchorage always point west.

Here's a link to a site that describes Victory. Four times the effort that Connie made to raise her bowers.

http://www.stvincent.ac.uk/heritage/1797/victory/anchor.html

Victory had about 1,000 hands. Even with 144 on the capstan, they needed 9 each to handle the great guns, and there were 36 each broadside.

To answer some PM, yes, you can sail up to the anchor, but, you still have to take the rode in.

You set an anchor to "scope"--the the days of sail, a short rode was "rule of four" and a long one was "rule of six."  What that means is, in 10 fathoms of water you'd pay out 40 to 60 fathoms of line.  The greater the scope, the more horizontal the pull on the anchor, meaning the better it digs in the bottom (the stock turns the crown around so the flukes will dig in).

You want the anchor to dig in, as the ship will swing around the anchor as the wind shifts--unless the current flow from the tide is greater than the wind.

So, even if you sail up to an anchor set in water as shallow as 10 fathoms (60 feet, circa 17m) you'd  still have to heave a 12" (30cm) line as long as an American football field (60 fathoms / 360 feet / 115m) up to the ship, and flake it out to dry before sending it below into the cable tier under the gun/main deck.  The anchor line is a line made up of ropes laid up into hawsers then laid up as cable--it's all natural fibers, which need to dry so that rot/mildew. etc. will not weaken the line.

Now, go an anchor in a more-sensible 20-25 fathoms of water, and you've 120-150 fathoms of line to take in.  (More math:  36" barreled capstan is 1.5 fathoms in circumference [π36 ÷ 72], so that's all the "gain" on the messenger one turn of the capstan gives you.)

Oh, and a smart captain in a less well-known anchorage will set two anchors--either up and down wind, or up and down tide.

Seems to me that all the evidence is pointing to around at least 6 feet.

Thanks for the link to the scrapbook GM. My grandfather was a crew member on the Arizona between wars and he made a scrap book like that about his tour in the navy. Really fascinating to see something like this.

www.unionstreethosting.com/.../Scrapbook_Tytler_1931-34.pdf

Here's a PDF I found that show capstans and an interesting old B&W photo on the left. I think I've seen that photo before and it may not be from the Connie - I think it may be from an Australian ship. Anyway, the bars do seem long and the men are walking all over the gratings.

http://www.history.navy.mil/USSCTour/manuals/ConstitutionCapstan.pdf

Mike

In 1821 the Constitution was an experimental ship that did 3 knots with a pair of paddle wheels- powered by the capstan crew.

I think you are right, Captain. Thirty two hands: 2 each per bar, 8 bars per deck, 2 decks.

I've been digging through my source materials (back in a house and unpacking all my books--woo!hoo!)

But, there seems to be a tradition of working the bars where they can be worked.  Which may seem odd at first--did to me--until you consider the use of a windlass.   The spokes are fed to the windlass, and arced around until they reached the deck, and another set of bars seated home; the process repeated until the heaving is completed..

There are engravings of First Rates, with very long bars, 6 or 7' exposed with 2 or 3 men per bar.   To help work the bars, they lashed together with line.  Those, though had the benefit of large clear deck space

But, as a guess, the bars were worked by as many hands as got the task done.  Those bower anchors were 5300# apiece,and the sailors had to also haul 2200(?) displacement tons of ship up the anchor rode.  Just the bower is 660# per man with only eight on the capstan.  Sixteen drops that to 330; getting 32 hands to the task is a sustainable 165# per each.

The math then suggests two things.  First, that the bars were long enough to get two people upon each.  Secondly, that obstructions like guns were slewed out of the way when heaving in a bower.  But, that's a guess.

No you're close. Those are little guys. Smart kid took the inside...

LOL.... figures. Watching this and now I am thinking more like 7 feet. Ah well. No one I know that will see the finished product (with the exception of those on this site) is going to have any idea what a capstan is, yet alone if the spokes are the right length.

I know I'm late to the discussion, but thought I'd share this link for what it's worth. Boy Scouts "heaving to" on the USS Constellation here in Baltimore:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7zVZsw-HFE

I gave in to my senses (they just looked too long) and cut them back to 5 feet in scale. Looks much better and still seems a reasonable enough length to get 3-4 sailors on each. I am going to be staging her on a slip for her 1858 'overhaul' and plan to make it look like the capstan is in fact being used. Haven't decided exactly how that is going to look yet. If I change my mind, they come off quite easily, maybe too easily actually.

Thanks for the input.

But it demonstrates a point, that they'd want to be as long as possible without running into stuff, in order to get more leverage or another sailor or two on each bar.

A couple of things to consider- I don't think the model included it, but the real capstan is on the gun deck. If you wanted to pop off the spar deck, you could add it. (Just kidding). But there might be a way to fish something back there like a cylinder, or pop off the top one and stick a dowel down a hole.

And, the bars are stowed always unless the thing is in use.

I think your model looks really good. They're going to have a time hopping over a lot of stuff, but I guess that's the way it was.

Nice modeling!

Thanks Mike/

That's a cool link I haven't seen before, But there is no way to tell if the drawing is to scale or not.

Arnie,

Does this illustration (I don't know how accurate it is) help? I should note this is the capstan on the gundeck.

Mike

http://www.phschool.com/atschool/california/webcodes/history_interactive/myp-3054/common_player.html