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Woes of the novice - Trials & Tribulations with the Dom Fernando II e Gloria

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  • Member since
    November 2012
Woes of the novice - Trials & Tribulations with the Dom Fernando II e Gloria
Posted by abishag98 on Sunday, October 20, 2013 1:33 AM

No doubt there are some folks who, like me, as a young boy growing up, has fond memories of his time spent putting together those marvelous little model cars, planes, tanks, and ships. And, like me, now coming to the start of a new chapter in life (retirement), would like to relive those moments. And in searching the possibilities of doing so, you find this website with all the incredible photos and videos of models that far surpass anything you ever imagined. And you're hooked! 

Yeah, that's me. Specifically, I love the old tall-ships, their bulging sails, the intricate rigging, how they weathered the high seas, the winds and storms, the genius it took to navigate the globe by following the stars. Remarkable!

Right off the bat, let me assure you my work is light years behind anything you good modelists submit here on FSM. Being encouraged by a good friend and fellow-modelist who frequently posts the results of his work on this forum, I offer my sad performance for your "constructive" critique and suggestions.

Revell's 1:200 tallship model, the "Dom Fernando II e Gloria," is my fourth model attempt in just under a year. Actually, as a beginner, the first three builds (i.e., the 1:196 USS Constitution, the 1:253 Gorch Fock, and the 1:110 H.M.S. Bounty), have turned out relatively well considering it's been over 55 years since I've put together any kind of model at all. On average, each of those models took about three months to build. But this one, the "Dom Fernando II e Gloria," is a different animal altogether. After over two weeks, I'm still working on the hull! 

This first photo shows an example of my attempt to partially hand-paint the hull with with minimal amount of air-brushing because I was too lazy to spend the time it would require to properly tape it.

As you can see, the bottom-half looks fairly decent using the air-brush. The top-half, not so good. Yeah, all that's the work of the novice "naively" believing he can hand paint as well as an airbrush! So, with the other side of the hull, I decided to take the time needed to tape it before painting. However, during the taping process, while trying to remove some tape that I had inadvertently put in the wrong place, I pulled both the primer base and main coat of paint off the hull! This after several hours of taping already. 

To make a long story short, it took several hours (days), to tape every nuance, nick, and corner of the hull before I felt confident enough to apply the paint. The photo below shows the results of my efforts. 

Much improved, eh? But, I'm recognizing that even though I spent an inordinate amount of time taping this side of the hull, there's much room for improvement. As such, I welcome your advice and suggestions on how to better tape these models to bring out a smoother paint job, that is, to better eliminate the "scraggly" paint lines rather than the "clean" ones. I'm using Model Master's Acrylic paints. However, the "copper" plating was airbrushed with Tamiya's Acrylic Dark Copper paint. Which, by the way, brings up another oddity I've noticed: I'm seeing that Tamiya's brand of acrylic paint doesn't work well when painting over a coat of Model Master paint. Have any of you ever noticed that? Or is it just my imagination?

Anyway, the $64,000 question is this: what do I do with the other half of the hull that looks like crap? Do I try to "fix it?" If so, how? 

Thanks much for anything you can send my way. If anything, my hopes here are for you new guys who are venturing to delve back into this fun world of modelling . . . reliving the good ol' days . . . and recognizing that, like me, you gotta' start somewhere before you can become a master modelist. 

Thanks much!

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Sunday, October 20, 2013 9:12 AM

Unless you are going to permanently display the finished model with the "bad" side hidden, I would suggest trying to match it up with the good side. After all, you are investing in a lot of time building it.

Lee

Oh, yes,   Welcome to the forum!

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    November 2012
Posted by abishag98 on Sunday, October 20, 2013 9:43 AM

Thanks subfixer! Yeah, I'm seriously leaning in the direction you've suggested. However, I will try to match that "bad" side as close as possible as it can be made to look much better. Maybe after I "fix" it, I'll post the "after" results. Thanks again, and for the "Welcome!"

Abishag98

"Life doesn't have a remote. Get up and change it yourself."

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Sunday, October 20, 2013 10:53 AM

Welcome to the forum! Glad to have you with us.

Two tips that might help limit the risk of pulling up paint while removing your masking.

First, use narrow strips (or narrow-width tape) rather than a whole-width piece of tape. Not only is it easier to work over curves and around raised detail, but, obviously, it gives you less surface to grab and pull up your base layer. Once you've masked your line, any additional masking (such as ordinary paper) can be fixed just to the first tape strip, rather than the paint.

Second, I've developed the habit over the years of briefly sticking any tape I'll use for masking to the palm of my hand (or inner arm, for longer pieces), then pulling it off and either cutting or applying it. It takes that first aggressive "stick" from the tape's adhesive, and adds the slightest trace of skin oil, to make the tape perfectly grippable for masking, but easier to remove without pulling up what's underneath.

I agree with Subfixer, you'll be happier by far if you try to fix the "bad" side. It's a good bet that by the time you're done, you'll be the only one who knows there was a problem to begin with.

By all means, please keep posting. We all learn from each other here---that's half the fun.

Greg

George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."
 
  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Sunday, October 20, 2013 11:57 AM

abishag98,

Your fond memories of plastic models as a teenager and love of square-rigged ships are mine as well.

I'm in my third year of retirement and, during the gloomy, soggy days of Oregon's winters, I find working on these plastic model kits is very satisfying. However, satisfaction is obtained, for me, not from building a prize-winning model (if I ever do it'll be when I'm around 100 Big Smile) but, rather, my perservering in trying to do the best I can with the skills I now have and attempting to learn more with each kit I build. That is not to say I don't get discouraged - I do. But then I still have other interests to go to for a break. (hiking and photography)  At age 70 I figure that I'll probably never reach the level of modeling that I see on display here at FSM, but, who cares? As long as I'm having fun.

One fact of which I'm certain - There are many modelers on this site willing to give encouragement and solid advice to a beginning or re-entering modeler.

Never give up the ship!

Mike

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    November 2012
Posted by abishag98 on Sunday, October 20, 2013 12:32 PM

Thanks Greg! I agree with you that the best route is to try and fix the "bad" side. And, you're right, I'll really be the only one who will recognize it anyway. Nice meeting you! Looking forward to more posts.

Abishag98

"Life doesn't have a remote. Get up and change it yourself."

  • Member since
    November 2012
Posted by abishag98 on Sunday, October 20, 2013 12:39 PM

Wow Mike! You're 70!!?? I'm going on 67 and wouldn't even be able to think about climbing atop a mountain like the one you're standing on. That's quite an accomplishment, sir! You look to be in great shape! And great photos! I'm assuming these were taken in Oregon?

Thanks for you kind words of encouragement! I have a good friend who post on this forum, who highly suggested that I start posting my work on this forum. Admittedly, I was quite reluctant knowing that my work was anyway near the standards most of the guys on here do. But it's like you and he both said, I'm quickly finding that there are many good folks on this site willing to spur you on and offer great tips and advice.

And that, my friend, makes it all worth the while! Thanks again, Mike!

Abishag98

"Life doesn't have a remote. Get up and change it yourself."

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Sunday, October 20, 2013 1:17 PM

Abishag98,

The "mountain" I'm standing on top of is actually in the state of Washington. It's a volcano. It's Mount St. Helens. That's Spirit Lake way down below. Climbing Mt. St. Helen's was on my life list of things I must do. I did it this last July 31st. It took me 9 1/2 hours to climb to the top and back. My "kid" brother (he's 15 months younger than I am) did the up and down in 6 1/2 hours!!! That's being in shape! However, I'm just happy I made it to the top Smile. The panorama of the "Jeff Park" area of the Mt. Jefferson Wilderness by Russell Lake is in Oregon. It's one of my favorite trekking destinations albeit a moderately long hike (12 miles round trip).

I've been having problems attempting to place decals on my current project - I keep breaking them or screwing them up somehow. So I ordered some decal paper and scanned the original set (minus the one or two that I'd already used and botched up) but I'm finding that, no matter how I vary the color, contrast, saturation, etc., the "do it yourself" decals just don't come out the same as the originals. They are too dark on the model (even when I've lightened up the decals in Photoshop) so I ordered another set from Dragon which I now have and am working up the courage to try again. And so it goes Big Smile.

Mike

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    June 2006
Posted by Paul5910 on Sunday, October 20, 2013 1:39 PM

abishag98, I know how you feel.  I am working on a Bismarck and am a novice myself.  I have stripped the hull twice already because I was unhappy with the results after hours of taping off, etc.  I used easy off oven cleaner in the driveway and it worked great.  Good luck.

Paul

  • Member since
    June 2012
Posted by arnie60 on Sunday, October 20, 2013 2:53 PM

Heyas and welcome to the Forum.

As you can see, plenty of good people to help you here.

Suggestions:

Be sure to carefully burnish the paint edge of your tape, especially where there is raised details. You can use a toothpick (my first pick) or some other object. Taking the extra time for this will pay off big time.

Also, I try not to airbrush "up" towards the tape. For example, if I am doing the bottom part of a hull, I spray at an angle that points down towards the bottom, not up towards the top and the tape, or preferably, perpendicular to the tape and the area that I am spraying. This helps to keep from "forcing" paint up under your tape where it may have pulled away a little or did not get completely seated giving you those "ragged" edges.

Remove the tape before the paint dries completely.

Hope this helps.

I also concur that you should go ahead and expend the effort on re-doing the "bad" side. You won't regret it.

fox
  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Narvon, Pa.
Posted by fox on Sunday, October 20, 2013 10:27 PM

Welcome to the Forums! Glad to have you aboard!

I've been building for 67 of my 73 years. I build whatever strikes my fancy at the time. Sit back, have a sip or two of your favorite beverage, and enjoy. Each build gets a little better.

Jim

 Main WIP: 

   On the Bench: Artesania Latina  (aka) Artists in the Latrine 1/75 Bluenose II

I keep hitting "escape", but I'm still here.

  • Member since
    March 2013
Posted by LonCray on Monday, October 21, 2013 10:00 AM

Something you might try with the decals is to paint them with decal film solution (NOT decal setting solution).  You're basically thickening the carrier to keep it from disintegrating.  You need to be careful to not make them too thick, but you will end up being able to use the decals.  

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Monday, October 21, 2013 10:55 AM

Lon,

I don't want to hijack this welcoming thread for Abishag98 but I just want all to understand that it was I who complained about decals, not him.

Thanks for the suggestions. The decals don't break up in the water, they break up while I'm trying to position them on some deck substructures - these are the "non-skid" surfaces on the deck of the destroyer. I will try cutting them before placing them in water so I'll have less trouble positioning each half piece.

Mike 

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    November 2012
Posted by abishag98 on Monday, October 21, 2013 4:37 PM

Thanks for the clarification, Lon!

Wendyl, a.k.a., Abishag98

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 10:26 AM

Mike, I stole your photo and am using it as my computer background. Not the one with your smiling mug, the pretty one. Thanks.

Lee

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 11:26 AM

abishag98

Thanks subfixer! Yeah, I'm seriously leaning in the direction you've suggested. However, I will try to match that "bad" side as close as possible as it can be made to look much better.

I'll tell you too, from experience...

It's too early in the build to commit to "good side- bad side". Your masking problems look pretty fixable.

You are also experiencing the typical (hopefully) syndrome of getting better as you go. Just keep going- there'll be better models in your future. This one looks pretty good too.

On another note, you all are giving this 57 year old pause for thought- gotta stay in shape!

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 1:08 PM

Lee,

You're more than welcome to use the "pretty one" Big Smile as your wallpaper. I do copyright some of my images to send to my stock agency so I would appreciate that it is strictly for personal use Smile.

Mike

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    November 2012
Posted by abishag98 on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:14 PM

Thanks for the great tips, Mike! I'll give them a try next time I tape.

  • Member since
    November 2012
Posted by abishag98 on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:18 PM

Whoa! You used Easy Off Oven cleaner to remove the paint off a plastic hull?!?! I can't imagine that it wouldn't have at least damaged the plastic. How exactly did you do this? Did you spray it on, let it set awhile, then wipe it off or spray it off with water? I'm really intrigued by this.

Thanks!

Wendyl, a.k.a., Abishag98

  • Member since
    November 2012
Posted by abishag98 on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:20 PM

Thanks for the kind welcome, Jim!

  • Member since
    June 2006
Posted by Paul5910 on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 6:47 PM

Wendy, I did use Easy Off to strip my hull twice and it worked great.  No damage to the plastic at all.  I sprayed it on and let it set for a while and then hosed it off.  Do wear rubber gloves when working with the oven cleaner as it can and will burn your skin.  Does not harm the plastic though.

Paul

  • Member since
    November 2012
Posted by abishag98 on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 7:01 PM

Wow! That's amazing! I might just try that on that recalcitrant hull and start over again. I'll let you know how it went. Thanks Paul!

Wendyl, a.k.a., Abishag98

  • Member since
    August 2013
Posted by Jay Jay on Wednesday, December 11, 2013 6:16 PM

We have a lot in common Abishag.  I too just started my 1st model after a 40 year sabatical.  My how the industry has grown.  I have been reading everything I can get my hands on to upgrade my almost extinct modeling skills and the tips and videos I have seen in many sites is building my confidence in saying "hey, I can do that too. "  

I started building a 350 scale model of the ship my father was on in WWII, the CL-81 Houston light cruiser.  The closest thing I could find was the CL-89 Miami and I am "refitting " it to represent the Houston.  The scant information on the Houston was a challenge but after doing research for a year and a half I finally conquered that obstacle.  Now I only have to learn how to air brush, use PE, acrylic paint, CA glue and work with resin. Hoo Boy !  But I am retired, I have the time and I am looking forward to the next few years it's going to take me to build a super accurate and detailed model of "my father's ship "

I have just read the "oven cleaner" tip on here and I am no longer afraid to mess up the paint job as well. I'll get my can of oven cleaner and start over  LOL.

 

 

 

 

 

 I'm finally retired. Now time I got, money I don't.

  • Member since
    November 2012
Posted by abishag98 on Friday, December 13, 2013 4:09 PM

Hello Jay Jay! Sorry to be so late in responding, but I've experienced some problems in getting onto the forum page. After working with tech support, we're back online.

Yeah, we do have a lot in common. It's been well over 50 years since I put together a model kit. This time a year ago, seeing that I was going to retire relatively soon, I remembered how much I enjoyed building these little plastic cars, planes, and ships; especially the tall ship. But my greatest memory was that of the one tall ship I attempted . . . it was a disaster.

So, a year ago I decided I want to conquer that attempt. Now, one year later, I have four completed tall ship models . . . as well as put three attempted ones "back in the box" due to a great amount of frustration. Below is a photo of my latest just completed yesterday, the Revell's 1:132 Bon Homme Richard Warship.

 My goal is to get skilled, meaning confident enough, to take on the larger, more expensive models such as the 1:96 Constitution, the 1:96 Sea Witch, and the Heller Soleil Royal which has over 2300 parts.

I don't fully retire for another six months yet, but until then I'm honing my skills and developing the incredible amount of patience it requires to do a decent job on these models. Best of success to you, Jay Jay! And keep us posted on your progress.

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