1/72 Zvezda Black Swan V 1/72 Revell Pirate Ship.

Biker,

They are exactly the same.  Revell did this before with the 1/72 Hanse Kogge which I posted a WIP last year or you can look at the Thomas build I'm doing now.  They are pretty much the same except for a larger forecastle and fighting top.  The instructions were changed just a bit to look like Revell instructions and the cover art work was changed.  I was actually able to pick up the Revell Kogge for about $30 less than the Zvezda.

DavidK did an amazing job on his which is floating around here on the Ship Forum and if you are thinking about purchasing the kit, I would highly recommend checking out his posts.

Hopes this helps a bit,

Steve

Maybe, but they are both really crappy models.

Much better to buy the Thomas- Hanse Kogge. Truly, all kinds of opportunities there to make accurate details. David did the Black Swan but then moved up to the Thomas.

Like the difference between a model of "Herbie" and a Tamiya Porsche Carrera.

Or, heck, the Golden Hind from Revell or Airfix, Mayflower, etc.

@ Steve, I have read DavidK's thread a couple of times and it's the level of detail afforded by this kit that attracts me.  Over here the Zvezda kit is £90.00 ($148.00) whereas the Revell kit is only £60.00 ($98.00) a huge difference.

@GMorrison, why crappy?  I have both the Bounty and the Golden Hind by Airfix (1/72), also the Bon Homme Richard by Revell (1/130), none of which offer the same level of detailing out of the box.

Bear in mind I am a novice at this, so I can't pull rabbits out of hats just yet - I am more at the "Oh look! There's a hat!!" level.

Thanks for the responses guys.

Because it has the capstan around the base of the mainmast. Which then leads to skeptism about any of the rest of it.

Bon Homme Richard is also a sub par kit. Golden Hind and Bounty are accurate, well designed if a little older.

To your first question, it certainly would make the most sense to buy the revell kit. Just change that damn capstan.

What we're talking about here is a question that we've discussed several times before in this Forum.  Whether you like that kit or not really depends on your approach to modeling.  The kit obviously is not intended as a scale model of a real, eighteenth-century prototype; there was no real Black Swan.  And the idea of a mast growing out of the middle of a capstan is, in terms of scale modeling, ridiculous.

On the other hand, the ship in the movies did have that feature.  If you're trying to build a replica of the movie ship, it makes sense to include the capstan around the mast.

On the other hand again, though I've never had the kit in my hands, I've seen pictures of it (in the box, in progress, and completed), and it looks to me like an extraordinarily well-detailed and ingeniously-designed kit.  The hull looks as though it's based on a genuine design for an early-eighteenth-century warship (probably English), the detailing appears to be excellent, and some of the rigging components look like some of the best the industry has produced yet.  I personally can't live with injection-molded sails and shroud/ratline assemblies, or molded deadeye lanyards, but otherwise that aspect of the kit looks as good as any I've seen. 

To each his/her own.  Lots of science fiction enthusiasts put tons of skill and effort into models of objects that never actually existed; ship modelers surely have every right to do the same thing.  (I do think every purchaser of that kit is entitled to know that that's what he's buying - not a scale model of a real ship.)  My own fervent wish is that Zvezda would direct some of its obviously ingenious and knowledgeable efforts toward some genuine scale sailing ship kits.  I suspect the company has made a lot of money from this one.

I have had the zvezda black swan in my sights for some time. I didn't even know that Revell made the exact same model. Just where did you find if for sale. I checked around and it definitely is not on Amazon or anywhere else I can find. Can you post a link please?

Well, I guess I can chime in here a bit.

For starters,  I did not realize that Revell got ahold of Zvezda's Black Swan molds....it'd be interesting to know the story behind that exchange, considering the history of their Black Pearl kit, and licensing issues they had with Disney.

Anyway, I'm glad Professor T stood up for the kit, in his way!  Yes, it's not a REAL Scale Model of any real ship, and it has some construction details that fly in the face of what is practical, or even possible for a real ship....

BUT, it is a superb kit! Of the several sailing ships I've built, it is the one that taught me the most about modeling, and has the most detail of any kit I've seen, ever.  Beautifully detailed molding, well-fitting parts...awesome instructions!  I have it in a glass case in the "Dave-Cave"....

GMorrison deserves as much respect as I can muster to a fellow modeler, but I have to say it saddens me when a comment like "they are both really crappy models" is thrown so haphazardly onto a forum thread...

My position on modeling is not about historical accuracy, but about building things that I like to look at!

And the Zvezda Black Swan is a thing of beauty!

I just wish I'd have gained a little more experience before I built it, because I know I could do it real justice now!  I almost want to build it again!  And it's cheaper from Revell, I may just get one for the stash!

www.revell.com/.../80-5605.html  (for Arnie)

And BTW, I don't feel that I "moved up" to the Thomas, but rather the Thomas was rudimentary in comparison....

Listen BikerBuster...if you're new to ship building...Please build your Bonhomme Richard (which happened to be my first kit, FYI...and it is kind of a dog!) and your Airfix kit first....if you want to build the Swan, get a couple of simpler kits under your belt first...you'll want some base skills to give it the best approach you can!

You have my blessing...I LOVE that kit!  And if you do build it, please feel free to let me know if you need any advice, or have any questions....It is definitely a high-skill-level kit...I'm all about helping fellow modelers!

"Everything you do will depend on what you think is important."

Dave

One other thing...I agree with Tilley that I wish Zvezda would use their great powers of design to make more sweet sailing ship kits!

Some brilliant and encouraging replies their guys.  I have started the Airfix HMS Bounty,  I also have the Bonne Homme Richard, the Golden Hind the frigate Dom Fernando IIe Gloria in my stash - Yes I have been a busy wee shopper.. It is all down to hull size for me the bigger the hull the easier it is for me to work it - (big fat engineers fingers and ageing eyesight). I even bought a HMS Victory kit but at 1/144 it is far too wee.

Unfortunately it's all trial and error via the internet as I am Chairbound and there is no model shop within a 40 mile radius.

I think I'll stick to the 1/100 and bigger.

@Arnie60, if you are having difficulty sourcing the Revell kit give me a shout, I have found it at £56.00 plus shipping (if international)  I think the kit is a euro issue..

www.ebay.co.uk/.../321212512254

Oops sorry.. duplicate post

It's definitely a new release, November with December shipments....it should start popping up at retailers/eBay pretty soon...

Some times the things we "say" online don't translate too well. I apologize David for casting negative  opinions at a kit that you built into a fine model for the reason that I should have better separated my opinion of the kit from my opinion of the builds I've seen. It is my position however that you overcame adversity on that, which makes your result all the more impressive. That being said, I personally have not built the kit and therefore violated one of the basic rules of critique.

Also please understand that the whole issue with the capstan was something I considered something of an inside joke among us.

I certainly think there are better kits for beginners, as for instance we had that conversation before about the BHR.

And regarding my comment about stepping up to the Thomas, I betray my bias for real subjects.

GM

Thanks for the links David and Biker. The one I was looking for is where I could purchase it. Revell has it listed on their site, but you can't purchase anything from there, which makes no sense to me. I guess I will give it a month and see if Amazon or others have it listed. The ebay link comes out to around $93.00, about $50 cheaper than I can find the Zvezda Black Swan. I imagine after shipping from England it would come to around $110.

Interesting discussion here. I am on the side of if it makes me happy, its a good model, although I would prefer models that convey a good degree of accuracy. I hope we will see some posts of the build as it progresses.

Don't sweat it, GM!  All I ask for is consideration, it's important to remember that everybody has their own idea of what's important in a modeling subject.  Thanks very much for being cool about it!  :)

Arnie, I'm sure the retailers will have the Revell Pirate Ship soon...it takes awhile for distribution, I guess...

And I agree...I'd love to see a build WIP of it!

David

newbie here... WIP?

Well I went ahead and ordered it via Santa, so I hope the big chap has me first in his Satnav for the 25th...

I did notice the windlass around the mast and I did also wonder what the?!?!?  (being a man of the sea..).   I may consider a re-site.. but then again, maybe not, after all it is a fictitious vessel.

I am just lerving the level of detail OOB.

WIP is Work In Progress...typically, a WIP thread will document construction of a kit, often with pictures and progress updates along the way....I find it to be a great way to review a kit, and also to inform others who might build the kit, especially of there are errors in the instructions, or possible shortcuts, pitfalls, etc...that might be encountered during the build...also a WIP is hugely helpful for learning...lots of people can help with advice along the way.

For example, the gunport doors on the Black Swan are each numbered individually...though they appear to be identical, they do in fact vary in size/shape slightly....so losing track of which one is which will cause trouble in the fitting...keep them organized!  haha!  I was fortunate enough to receive that warning from Phil (Grymm) before I found out the hard way!

Dave

Well I did it, the 'Revell Pirate Ship' is sitting on the sofa right beside me..  Phew, it is quite daunting.  Still in the meantime I'll need to press on and getthe Bounty finished, still having some painting issues, just opened a new tin of Humbrol and it's coming out like water, still hopefully a couple of coats should sort it out.

BTW @ David_K how did you get such a good paint finish on your Black Swan? and what do you use for a wash?

In case it's not to late to head off a problem, I want to make an observation about the Airfix Bounty kit.  There are some things about it that I really like.  (The countersunk plank seams are nice; so are the integrally-molded "deck beams," which force the deck into its proper camber (and seem to eliminate warping).  And the crew figures are excellent.

It does, however, have a few pretty conspicuous problems that should be fairly easy to fix.  First, the topgallant yards have studdingsail booms cast integrally with them.  They shouldn't.  (The purpose of a studdingsail boom is to spread the foot of the studdingsail above.  When the topgallant is the highest sail on the mast, a studdingsail boom on it makes no sense.)  Removing them with an xacto knife would take less than five minutes. The biggest goof, though, concerns the deck.  I think the problem may have started when Airfix sited the hawseholes too low in the bow.  (They need to be almost at the top of the bulwarks.  As the kit is designed, the whole deck slopes down precipitously from the stern to the bow, so the hawsers can reach the windlass.  The result looks pretty silly.  (The deck should sweep up slightly and subtly at both bow and stern, with the lowest point amidships)  To fix this would require drilling new hawseholes, plugging the old ones, and forcing the deck into a proper curve.  (I haven't done it, but I don't think it would be difficult.  Some locator tabs on the inside of the hull halves might have to go.) 

I suspect all those fixes could be done in an hour or so - and would make the finished model look a LOT better.

Good luck.  It's a great hobby.

I remember the feeling of seeing that giant kit in person when it arrived!

For the painting on that kit, I laid down all the basecoats with acrylic Model Master paints with the airbrush, then went over the pieces as I assembled them and applied the details by hand with a brush.

My wash is a very thin solution of turpenoid (odorless mineral spirits, artists oil paint thinner) with some black artist oil paint (the kind that comes in a tube)...I find that the pigment from oil paint settles really nicely in to the crevices and adds some good texture to the parts.

Please let me know if you have any questions when you start building it....it's a challenging kit, for sure, but well worth the effort, and you'll learn a ton...I know I did!

Dave

Cheers..

So you didn't have any problem putting oil over acrylic?

  I just found this post, I got my Black Swan from Hobbyterra.com their real nice people to deal with from the Chek Republic, they even have a set of ghost pirates that I also had them add to my order.

hobbyterra.com/.../zvezda-black-pearl-model-ship.html

Marcus-

In response to your question about oils over acrylics...

No, I've never had any trouble laying oils over acrylics...in fact, if I use an enamel or oil-based base coat, and then tried to use the same type of paint for washes and weathering, it would soften up the basecoat and begin to mess up the underlying coat.  By using the opposite type of paint for the *overcoats*, I don't have to worry about messing up the bases...

Some people use enamels for their basecoats, and then acrylics for washing, etc., but I find that acrylic (water-based) washes don't settle as well...plus, I try to avoid airbrushing with enamels..,they're so smelly and require more work for cleanup...In my humble opinion, using water-based basecoats is the way to go!

Preferences vary, of course.

David K, thanks for the information.  What you describe makes sense.