Rigging plans for Artesania Latina USS Constellation

Thanks Pawel,

For 5 dollars you got a real steal. Is it in German or English?

I forget how much it would have cost me but it was a lot more than five dollars, that's for sure.

You could make a good profit selling that !! Especially, it being hard bound.

Stay well my friend,

Earl

Hello Earl!

No problem! I got mine in Germany and paid for it like five dollars - at that time I didn't even have any sailing ship project going on, but at that price I just couldn't let it go. 300 or more pages and hardbound - dang I could even use it as bookshelf ornament

Good luck with your projects and have a nice day

Paweł

Pawel,

Sorry, it took me so long to respond. I did check out the book and decided that it was too much for me to spend on a book which I will probably never use again. Thanks for the tip though, I appreciate the tip.

Regards, Earl

Yes, I did get off the topic with my last conversation. Sorry about that but when I saw your 1:35  M48, I just had to send my comment.

I am very pleased that your cat is making such good progress, that has to be a big worry off your mind.

As for the rigging of the Constellation, it is a dead issue. I have no desire to cut, chop and rebuild that hull to it's proper representation.

Stay well my friend, it's always good to hear from you.

Earl

Hello Earl!

This is getting a little off-topic, but thank you very much! I'm just not sure which one do you mean, because I got two of them babies on my website. The big one, in 1:35:

vietnam.net.pl/M48en.htm

And the little one, in 1:72

vietnam.net.pl/M48malyen.htm

And no, I didn't use aftermarket barrels in any of them. I've got build summaries on both of them, if you scroll a little down the page.

As for my cat, I'm glad to inform you he's doing better - slowly but constantly. The doc said the progress the cat made changed his opinnion and maybe the next surgery wouldn't be necessary. So now the cat is walking on his own, at the moment with a noticeable limp, but still has a chance of full recovery - just needs time.

You stay well, too, and have a nice day

Paweł

Pawel,

I really like your build of the M48 Patton tank from your website! Whose kit is it and and what and whose detail parts were used on it? I'm assuming the barrel is from Barrel Depot. I also like the paint job, it's not over weathered as most armor and artillery was not back then. Has the prognoses improved for the full recovery of your cat. I have forgotten to inquire about that and I do hope that he is improving.

Stay well my friend,

Earl

Hello Earl!

I sent you the link to the book in a PM, the link can also be found a few posts before, on page one of this thread. The sails took a little to do, but I never hurry building models I have sewn the partitions between individual cloths and the edges with a machine, and then did the corners and fastened the boltrope (I remember it again!) by hand. The "rat tails" for partially furling the sails were a pain to do, good there's not so many of them. Patience, well I guess so... But it's like muscle strength, it gets better with training.

Best regards,

Paweł

PAWEL,

I lost the reference book name which you gave me. Could you please send it again? How long did it take you to make those sails??!! You obviously have a great deal of talent and more patience than I have. Thanks Pawel, it is always good to hear from you.

Best regards my friend.

Earl

jtilley, GMorisson, Earl - thanks a lot for your kind words, they mean a lot to me. That's true, the cat can ge a lot like a family member. My cat helps me build models sometimes, too - is very good at locating parts that got a "tweezer shot" If a cat is around, he/she will help you pinpoint the landing site of such part.

Earl - I'm particularly proud, because I did those sails all by myself, starting by selecting the cloth, then drawing the desin and ending by sewing the lines around the sails (sorry, forgot the name right now). I hope you like the book, I liked it a lot. Good luck with your projects and have a nice day

Paweł

I'm surprised  how many responses have started to appear on pets. Seems as though there are quite a few of us with our best friends in fur. I agree that a thread would generate how much they mean to us and us to them.

Need to start a thread about hobby room pets.

My youngest Lab Fiona is like that. She follows me everywhere. When I go out she sits at the front door, acc'd to Ms. Morrison.

jtilley,

You are so right about about animals becoming members of a family. My wife always says that she knows where I am, because our cat is always with me. She also knows where I am going, because she will see our cat either leading me or following me. She's heard a lot of expletives from me when I get frustrated while working on a project, good thing that she can't talk. I know that this is not model related but i just had to get my say.

Earl

Hi Pawel,

I like your ship, especially the sails! I don't have the patience or dexterity as I had when I was younger to

tackle something like this. I still have the Fair American model from Model Shipways that I have started and had to set aside when I started the Titanic. That is almost done and then it's on to the USS George Washington aircraft carrier for my grandson.

I will look into that book and see if it cuts off some of my frustration level after my experience with the Constellation!

I'm sorry for getting that your cat is a male, probably because ours is a female and I tend to call other friends cats females also. Senior memories are not always easy to deal with. I hope that your cat comes through with a full recovery and does not require the further surgery.

Well, my friend, I must get some things done around the house and then back to the Titanic.

Have a great day!

Earl

Yes Pawel, my extreme sympathies. Not a cat person, but I have three pets (dogs).

Pawel, I'm so sorry about your cat.  I'm a longtime feline fanatic myself.  Sounds like you almost lost a member of the family.

Hello Earl!

My ship is like 90% done - have to get myself to really finish it. But it's not so easy, as it's a build on a "remote workshop" - I think this year I'll move it and finish it at last. It looks roughly like this:

As for the cat - and it's "he" - it's now almost two months since the accident and he's starting to walk again on his own, but with problems. One of the hind legs still didn't heal right and the doc is considering taking out one of the joints and putting it together without movement - I hope it won't come to that, so we're still waiting. It takes a lot of time, but like the doctor said: "if something similar happened to you, you'd be in hospital for half a year!".

I heartly recommend that book by Wolfram Mondfeld to you:

http://www.amazon.com/Historic-Ship-Models-Wolfram-Mondfeld/dp/0806957336

Has lots of knowledge, nice drawings and modelling hacks in it.

Good luck with your projects!

Paweł

Pawel, my friend, good to hear from you again.  Another veteran of Model Shipways, but it sounds as though you managed to get yours right. How much imbibing did you have to do to keep your sanity?

I bought the Model Shipways Fair American which I have the planking started on the hull, but I set it aside so that I could build the Titanic for my my son - in - law's birthday. Just about done, taking longer than I thought. How is your cat doing? I hope that everything went well for her.

Have a great day buddy.

Earl

Good thoughts, see my response to jtilley. I have a couple of paintings of the Constellation as well as several older books with pictures of her under full sail. She was a beautiful and deadly ship. It's a shame that there isn't a  better manufactured ship of her.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my quest.

Earl

You know, the idea that the Revell kit might be a better approach. I built their Constitution right before I went into the army and that was back in 1965, so the knowledge that they are still manufacturing it has a lot to say about their product. I cannot see the point of putting out any more effort or money to go back and tear down to redo all of the work and frustration which I have already endured with this "kit". I have the hull and and deck furniture complete.

This model is supposed to represent the ship as built in 1797. So I will have to think about what I want to do with this "ship" perhaps I should place it in the tub and see if it floats.

I am going to build a model of the USS George Washington, CVN 73 aircraft carrier which my grandson is serving on. I bought the Trumpeter model of the USS Theodore Roosevelt CVN 71 to make the conversion. I have obtained a lot of info on the GW and purchased the correct decals and aircraft now used. I still need to get the etched brass details to update the tower, radar domes, etc.

I also just purchased the Revell model of the USS Arizona.

Thanks again, you have been a great source of information.

Earl

Hello!

Once I got a model of "Artist in the Latrine" Swift pilot boat. It was given to me by a friend, whose grandpa started it and died shortly afterwards. It just looked great in the box, but the longer I built it, the more I was getting sure, that there's something wrong with the plans and the concept of the whole thing. Good thing I had the book about ship models by Wolfram Mondfeld and early on I started rectifying the errors. I also got the reprint of the historic book by mr. Biddlecombe, two other reprints of American books about ship modelling from the beginning of the XX century and downloaded a copy of instructions for a similar model from Model Shipways. It took all this reference to build something closer to the reality. I think we all agree it shouldn't be like that - this much reference would be normal if I were building the boat from scratch. I expected something else from a kit. Good thing I didn't buy it!

Earl - I hope you can do some research and rig your ship right. Good luck and have a nice day

Paweł

Both Constellation and Congress are well represented in paintings because they both fought in a number of important battles. The A/L kit is a frigate, but an ugly one and not at all like the real thing as far as I can see. 

These were really sharp 24 pounder ships, and carried a lot of foresail, although A/L has the bowsprit all wrong.

I have built up quite a few of the Revell "1/196" (actually 1/192) Constitutions over the years. It's a really nice kit, in fact a favorite sailing ship kit of mine. It can easily be slapped around and made to represent, in a general way, a lot of the fighting ships of the era. The one silly feature is the hatch on the weather deck, but chop chop chop.

Just a thought.

Alpha, I don't think anybody will blame you if you decide to give up on it.  I did, however, find a couple of web sources for plans (presumably including rigging plans) of the Constellation:

http://www.ajfisher.com/plans.htm

and:

http://www.taubmansonline.com

In either case you'll need to scroll down the list of plans in alphabetical order.

I haven't seen either of these sets with my own eyes, but both sources are reputable (if not cheap).  My suggestion would be to trash whatever rigging instructions came with the kit, forget its numbers or letters or whatever, and rig your model according to plans made by somebody who knew what he was doing. 

There's a potential joker in the deck.  I don't know how familiar you are with the subject, but there were two sailing warships named Constellation:  a frigate built in 1797 and a corvette built in 1854.  (For a long time the people in charge of the ship herself, in Baltimore, pretended that both were the same ship.  That idea has been thoroughly disproved - as the people in charge of the ship now recognize.  And the 1836 date in the Taubman's ad must be a misprint.)  I don't know which ship the Artist in the Latrine kit is supposed to represent; I wouldn't be surprised if the kit designers didn't know the difference.  Be prepared for the hull and deck plans to show up some pretty big inaccuracies in the kit.  But in terms of rigging it shouldn't make much difference.

Good luck.

Well Capn, you know I may very well come to that point one of these days. It is true that the empty mast holes are a little bit of a distraction looking at it. Or perhaps, I should just finish it as an Admiral model. But for now I will be getting ready to build a model of the USS George Washington CVN 73 which my grandson is serving on.

Thanks Cap'n

Earl

Well, one option would be to make a "best guess" from the plans, then cull your references to see if that's close (and to fill in the missing gaps).  Then, just step the lower masts and sprit.  This would let you show the basic standing rigging, and give a sense of the ship as a sailing vessel.

This would give a sense of 'completion' and be display-able, for not having empty holes in the decks for the masts.

But, that's just me 2¢ worth; others' differ.

Boy, you hit the nail on the head about Artist in the Latrine. I bought this from Model Expo and complained about the quality of the plans. Their response was that nobody else had the complaints that I did. Unfortunately. I had the hull completely planked before I realized what I had gotten myself into.

The deck view is nothing more than a black and white photo of very poor quality and not even close to scale. I have a lot of books on Rigging and building period ship models. However they are of little use for my attempt to even read the numbers of the rigging lines or the attachment points. Sad to say that I gave up on it and it's dry rotting in a closet. Thanks for your response though and it makes me feel better that others, besides myself have had problems with this ship model manufacturer.

Earl

Alpha 43, you've discovered one reason why so many serious ship modelers refer to Artisania Latina as "Artist in the Latrine."  

Unfortunately I don't know of a good set of plans specifically for the Constelllation.  The best I can do is to recommend some books on the general subject of ship model rigging.

One of my favorites is George Campbell's The Neophyte Shipmodeler's Jackstay.  It covers a lot more than rigging, it's dated, and it's primarily aimed at solid-hull wood kit.  But it contains an enormous amount of sound, basic information - and it's cheap.

There's one called Rigging Period Ship Models, by Lenarth Peterson.  I don't have it, but it has a good reputation. 

Here's a link to the book page of one of the big ship model suppliers, Model Expo:  http://www.modelexpo-online.com/search.asp?SKW=cat1_KH&PAGLEN=20&STARTPAGE=1 .  The books by Biddlecombe, Lever, and Murphy/Jeffers all fit your historical period (more or less), and should be quite useful.  Remember:  ship rigging changed a great deal over the centuries, and excellent books about one period are almost useless for another.  Anderson's The Rigging of Ships In the Days of the Spritsail Topmast and Underhill's Masting and Rigging, for instance, are classics, but just about irrelevant to a nineteenth-century warship.

Hope that helps a little.  Good luck.