1/400 (??) UPC HMS Victory scale question

I got into paper models briefly a long, long time ago. I remember building a U-boat and Lindbergh's "Spirit of St. Louis." Both came out nice.

But I made one stupid mistake, which taught me a valuable lesson. Never having heard of Uhu glue, which the instructions recommended, I had the brilliant idea of building the models with rubber cement. After all, it only sticks to paper, it dries instantly, and it's easily removed from places where you don't want it. It worked beautifully - for about two weeks. Then it started turning a sickly pink color. By the next week it was brown. A week after that, the models fell apart.

One curious aspect of all this was that my father, an architect who'd been using rubber cement to at least forty years, had never heard that the stuff wasn't permanent. I guess all the projects he'd used it for happened to be ones that didn't need to last long.

Add this one to the long list of stupid Tilley blunders that may conceivably benefit somebody else. Rubber cement is great stuff, but don't  ask it to stick for more than a week or two.

John,

I have built several paper kits to date; the JSC SMS Goeben, and the HMV SMS Baden. One thing I enjoy about the paper kits, besides their superb detail, is the fact that I can keep the basic kit intact and print out a working copy to any scale I desire on my printer.  I have also ordered the Model Shipyard kit of the HMS Bellona (74). Paper kits have opened an entirely new world of modeling to me, one that I thoroughly enjoy. Also, the range of ships from which to select is quite extensive!

Bill

If we include paper kits in these discussions we'll overload the web. There are some really magnificent paper models out there. I think I remember seeing at least two large-scale paper versions of the Victory, one German, the other Polish. I have taken a look at several Wilhemshaven WWII warship kits; the amount of detail and the ingenuity of design in these kits is fantastic.

I'm pretty sure UPC and Entex each issued at least two Victorys on different scales - maybe more. Sorting them all out is beyond me.

The folks at Jotika, bless 'em, are genuinely dedicated to making their kits as accurate as possible. The 1/72 Victory has been redone several times, to reflect the most recent research. The latest version, according to the Jotika website ( http://www.jotika-ltd.com/Pages/1024768/Victory_16.htm ), contains parts and plans to show the forecastle in either configuration. Jotika also shows the poop deck with solid rails - and gunports cut in them.

I've never actually laid eyes on a Jotika kit, but it's pretty clear that this is a superb effort. I have three criticisms - only one of which is really serious. The serious criticism is that I can't afford it. The other two: (1) It uses "dummy" guns on the two lower decks. (I do believe Heller is the only company that shows all that ship's guns, full-length.)  (2) It doesn't show the "anchor stock" planking of the wales. That, of course, can be fixed by the individual modeler, but it seems like pre-cutting those five-sided planks would have been a nice touch.

So far as I know, the only other kit that shows the raised forecastle bulwarks is the tiny metal Skytrex one. And I don't think it's available any more.

John,

I would add the 1/96 Model Shipyard paper card kit of the Victory as one of the excellent kits out there. One issue that I have noticed in all but the Calder/Jotika kits concerns the foc'sle bulwarks, being the post-Trafalgar shortened design. Calder/Jotika shows the raised bulwarks, which seem to be more accurate.

The Heller 1/600 HMS Victory was simply a repackaging of the Airfix kit. The Entex kit, if memory serves, is a repackaging of the UPC kit, which also served as "HMS Prince", again, if memory serves!

Bill

It's awfully easy (and, to my notion, pointless) to get confused over the huge number of Victory kits out there. Years ago, a Forum member with the handle Michelvrtg tried to compile a list of them - with scales. He counted, as I remember, over twenty.

I long ago figured out that the people who design copy for model boxes don't, in many cases, understand the concept of scale. Some of the numbers on those boxes are ridiculous.

I do remember that old Entex one. It looked like it had been copied from the 18"-long Revell one, except that somebody had left out one row of windows from the transom and quarter galleries. It looked positively weird.

There's also the matter of sorting out the "repops" of various sorts - copies at smaller scales, little kits obviously designed without plans, etc., etc. To my notion, I have too little time on the Orb to straighten it all out.

I can't claim to have seen every Victory kit ever released, but I've seen five that look reasonably like the real ship, and would be good bases for serious scale models.

1. The 1/72 scale wood kit from Calder/Jotika (which costs over $1,000).

2. The 1/100 plastic kit from Heller.

3. The larger of the two kits from Airfix (though I still think there's something wrong with the shape of its bow).

4. The 18"-long kit from Revell.

5. The tiny cast metal one from Skytrex. (I don't know if it's still available, but it's a remarkable kit.)

The little kits from Airfix and Pyro aren't bad, but I frankly have trouble taking them seriously as scale models.

I haven't listed any of the various HECEPOB kits. And I haven't listed the scales of several kits, because the ones quoted by the manufacturers and various other folks just aren't reliable. (Some of those kits are so far off from reality that the scale varies according to which part of the model you measure.)

Don,

I have the Airfix 1/600 HMS Victory, it's the old Series 1 edition in the clear plastic carded version.  

I saw a nice build of this Victory on the Airfix Modeller's Forum. According to the builder he said it worked out to just under 1/700.  Another posted claimed it was 1/663. He didn't finish the build, but he did a good job on it including a really nice job on the stern galleries.

So, I'm wondering if I should get the 1/600 ratlines or the 1/700.  I think at this scale it probably wouldn't matter too much.

I haven't seen a small scale kit of the Victory from Heller.  I think I'll try to find one.  I have a number of the small Heller kits (1/500 Le Superbe, 1/600 La Couronne, 1/600 Le Phenix, 1/400 Pourquoi Pas and the 1/225  Bireme). I really like the Le Superbe, I'm currently working on one now and it is the best small scale ship model I have.

I have the Lindberg (ex Pyro(?)) 1/500 scale Victory that I may work on after the Le Superbe.

I also have a Lindberg 1/400 Victory & a Revell Victory thats listed as 1/225 but is actually the exact same kit as the 1/400 Lindberg.  Both are pretty nice kits but I'd give the nod to the Lindberg, I guess the molds were newer.

I'm curious about the Entex kit.  I saw one a while back listed as 1/400 scale, I'm under the impression its a different kit than the other 1/400's out there. Hopefully it is indeed a smaller scale kit and not one in the 1/225 range.

Thanks,

Adrian

There used to be a nice 1:600 Victory kit, either Heller or Airfix.  The 1:600 kits from both mfgs were fairly nice. I still see some at model show flea markets, but sure would like to see them repopped. I have three or four left, not the Victory which I would like to do.  Also wish more 1:600 PE for those kits would be available. I don't suppose that is likely unless they are repopped.