Help with gun/gun shield colors SMS Emden

Ochre is prewar, wartime is gray

"Ochre is prewar, wartime is gray."

GMorrison,

Thanks for chiming in.

I'm well aware of the wartime gray. However, regarding the pre-war Emden's guns and shields, the color depicted on the box art is light gray - just as the hull is light gray (NOT white) pre-war. The gray used during WWI was considerably darker than the gray that is being called out for the pre war color on the shields. The box art on both the single and double kits regarding the SMS Emden is the same - yellow ochre on most vertical surfaces plus the stacks, but light gray for the guns and shields.

This isn't exactly a terribly important query but, in the interest of accuracy, I thought I'd see if anyone on this forum knew the answer. If no one else knows I'll just go with the box art.

Mike

I should also have mentioned that the color call outs for the wartime SMS Emden (and the Dresden as well in the double kit) are clear. Both kits are calling for the darker gray on all vertical surfaces and the hull as well.

Mike

When I built that kit several years ago I researched the colors on a number of sites focused on the pre war at and wartime Imperial Navy.

I don't have the references at hand, but they shouldn't be hard to track down.

I'm looking at the model on my shelf, and it looks like:

Red ant fouling, thin black boot stripe, dark grey up to the main deck level and light gray above.

I didn't research the prewar Far East scheme because I didn't plan that model.

And I paid no attention to Dresden.

But I started there rather than follow the kit instructions, which as you know are always hit or miss ie not too reliable.

When I was researching my Graf Spee build several years back I came across a site that said the pre/early WWII DKM colors were close, if not identical to the WWI colors used by the Kaiser's Fleet during WWI. Those colors were a Dunkelgrau 51 Hull above the waterline and a Hellgrau 50 superstructure. I don't know how accurate or reliable those call outs are for WWI era, but I thought that I would throw that out there for consideration.

GMorrison and Stikpusher,

Thank you both for your thoughts.

Again, I'm building her (Emden) as she began her cruise to the far east before the war. She had most vertical surfaces painted yellow ochre and the hull above the WL a very, very light (nearly white) gray. She may or may not have had a boot stripe. (I will probably attempt to give her one anyway). I'm only concerned with the gun/shield combinations of which there are six on her forward, main, and aft decks. As you can see from my post Revell's instructions contradict each other from the single and double kits when it comes to the color of those gun/shield combos. That's what my question is. I think I'll go with the light gray.

Mike

It seems there must have been a bargain on white and buff paints the early years of the 20th century.  So many navies seemed to use that scheme that I got to wondering why!

Funny you should say that Don.

A couple of years ago I stocked up on WEM ( late and lamented, but I did my part) Colourcoats White RAL 9010 and Sand Yellow RAL 1002, three tins each.

There's a Combrig 1/350 full hull kit in my stash waiting for me to have enough time to deal with sourcing or scratching all of the stuff that normally gets covered in someone's PE issue. Probably I'll get the PE for one of those big ICM battleships.

Seems like it's been modeled both ways.

I have no idea now that you bring it up.

And I think it would be reasonable to assume that the shield got painted the same color as the guns themselves.

BTW I made my own from thin brass- the stuff left over around the border of the PE. It looks pretty good, those guns in the kit leave a lot to be wished for.

I think a safe bet is that they are either gun color or hull color. I call the hull color white. And it is a little gray, but not much.

From my research the gun shields and guns are the same color as the hull in her pre-war years.

 Ron W.

Ron,

Thanks for your input. As I suggested, I'll be using the same color on the guns and shields as is on the hull. I've painted the hull a light gray - not so light one would call it white but very, very light.

Mike

I think that's a good way to go. The WEM color seems to be white with a little black added for scale effect.

I'm certain the real thing was really cool white, not gray. But that again wouldn't look right in a model.

And the other color isn't ochre at all. It's pretty yellow. Again adding a little black gives it scale, but it's not Spar or Buff. The successful models I've seen use Lufthansa Yellow with black added.

GMorrison,

I may not have mixed my colors to the most historically accurate hue but I'm satisfied with what I came up with.

As I explained in the first post in this thread, I had a devil of a time just trying to get the hull together. I completely ruined my original kit's hull. The amount of time I spent trying to get the pieces (four of them) to fit together was exorbitant and each successive attempt seemed to reek more havoc on the puzzle. I gave up and am keeping the hull for a potential waterline model in the future.

My new hull is coming along much better. I'm on my second round of puttying and sanding but I think (I hope) it'll be OK. The following picture shows my second attempt at the hull (which I should be air brushing today) along with the fret showing the color I've mixed up and am using as the "yellow".

Mike

I have another question regarding the prop shafts. Should they be painted hull red or brass? Those are the two conflicting choices Revell has given us between the double kit and single kit. I've already painted the shafts brass and the cowling (or whatever it's called coming out of the hull) and the brackets will be hull red as well. I think that's what Revell meant to convey but I'm at a loss as to why they make their kits with conflicting instructions.

Here's where I am so far. Lots of filling (puttying), sanding and touch-up painting still to come around the hull/deck joins. 

Mike

I always thought that prop shafts were made of steel and were either painted the color of the hull or left unpainted.

Marcus,

Thanks for your thoughts.

I think I may repaint the shaft to the hull red color but I wondered if this community had others who know for sure about the Emden/Dresden prop shaft colors. It's certainly not a big deal to me but I'm posting these discrepancies between the single and double Revell kits as I find them.

Mike

Hi mike,

Doing the Emden myself, I did some research for the build and I think the shafts were inside of steel tubes, thus would be hull colored

Thanks Irish!

Since several of you are of the opinion that the shafts should be painted the hull color, that's what they'll be colored.

BTW, did you have any difficulties in putting the deck on the hull? The way I built mine I had to do some sanding above  where the guns sit that are mounted below the deck on each side of the forward half of the hull. Otherwise I just couldn't get the deck to slide in properly even prying apart the hull halves somewhat. It was such a tight fit in places that I was a bit worried that I'd break the hull apart just trying to get the deck on! I probably just don't have enough experience building 1/350 ships yet to realize that this is just something one deals with along the way.

Mike

I broke down and purchased the wood decks with wood deck gun platforms (it is pricey for the size, don't know if I would do it again) - I sanded the upper halves till they fit well, then put the wood deck down in between.  It is not a great fit, I would recommend sand and fit the liquid glue to get it down

Another problem (for me) has arisen and it has conquered me . I am at a loss as to what I was supposed to do when a part just did not fit correctly - or more accurately, as shown in the instructions.. However, I went ahead (probably to my everlasting embarrassment ) and worked around it. I think I just should have cut out the offending stairs but they seemed such an integral part of the deck house area that I didn't even think of it until I'd already massacred my kit.

The stairs that are the cause of the passageway not fitting correctly don't make any sense to me now that the passageway sits directly on top of them. I thought for an instant I might have attached the passageway to the wrong side of the ship but, no, the instructions clearly show it on the port side as do some other drawings of the Emden I found on the Internet. So I'm totally befuddled.

What would some of you have done? Warhipguy? Bondoman?

Mike

 I now know what I did wrong. Very simple .... I switched the port and starboard  sides of the deck house!!!! .

Oh well, I still have a Dresden I can build!

Mike

So I looked at bondomans model which is on my shelf, and that stair isn't there.

He pointed out to me that the crosswise stair down has a canvas quarter round cover.

Yes, I now know. As I said above, I found my mistake. I'm sooo embarrassed.

Mike

Soft scrap the model. I usually take mine apart at least once.

Wait'll you see the Citadel on my  half finished Heller Potemkin that I just broke out of storage. 20% list forward.

Your Emden is already at a point where it's a really nice model. To abandon it now would be silly.

Bondo also suggested some other ideas like replacing the lookout posts at the ends of the bridge wings with simple folded brass screens. Those gun shields.

Get the book Last Voyage of the Emden., if you haven't already.

What a story and the sinking is only the beginning.

SMS Emden is at my ship breaking yard today.

More to come in a few weeks.

Mike

Well the Emden is out of the breaking yard with the misapplied parts now switched around .

I've made some progress but my work on this kit is not up to even my standards which are very, very accommodating to say the least . However, I will continue the build and will be into the rigging in the next week or so. Eventually she'll sit on one of my bookshelves. I have the accommodation ladders and the masts with their respective platforms, etc. to get to first.

The first two images here are of the completed switch before sanding and touch-up painting. The last three images are as she sits today. (There are some strange shadow areas and a blurry forward flag staff in the last image since it's actually 4 exposures at different focus points blended together in Photoshop)

Mike

Look at you!

She's lovely for sure.