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Fate of the USS America CV-66

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  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Winsted CT
Fate of the USS America CV-66
Posted by jimz66 on Saturday, March 6, 2004 11:23 AM
Question guys, I read that article in PM many years ago about the Service Life Extension Program (SLEP) for short. They talked about the ships that had gottne SLEPS and so on and so forth. The main ship that they talked about was the USS Constellation CV-64. I think that the USS John F. Kennedy CV-67 was next on the list to get one. I know that after the JFK got her SLEP they shut down Philadalphia Naval Ship Yard (PNSY), so I was wondering if maybe the America never got one and that was why they retired her before some of the ships that were older than her. Any ideas? Let me know. Just my curiosity seeking through again.
Phantoms rule the skies!!!
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Saturday, March 6, 2004 12:48 PM
The America got a SLEP, Although a SLEP may make the ship more modern, it may not make it economical. Every year, each ship goes through a review that shows the overall condition of the ship and what economic impact it will have on the fleet. If one ship needs more in maintenance and repair than another, then it may be deemed that they retire that ship regardless of age, but how it impacts the budget. That is what happened to the America by retiring it before the Constellation and why the Connie was just retired and why the Kitty Hawk is still in service.

This same thing happend to the Forestal class ships as well. And we may see it with the Nimitz class.

Scott

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Winsted CT
Posted by jimz66 on Saturday, March 6, 2004 12:57 PM
Scott I never knew that is how it worked. I always thought it was by age and use not deterioration. I always thought that they took good care of the whole fleet and not better care of one or another.

Is that your Lexington? What scale is it? send me some photos by email. Looks great from here.
Phantoms rule the skies!!!
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Saturday, March 6, 2004 7:08 PM
Ships are like cars, some can be lemons from the day they left the yard. The Franklin Roosevelt had a long history of maintenece problems since she left the yard and is speculated why she, the last of the Midway's, to be decomssioned almost 20 before her two sisters. The maintenence of a ship falls upon the skipper, so some shipe are better taken care of than others. Other ships may have more "milage" and hard work on them. Take the Lexington, after WW2, she didn't see a lot of hard action, from 1945 to 1953 she was laid up, was practically rebuilt, then in 1961, became a training carrier which didn't put a lot of wear and tear on the ship, thus why she was in commission until 1991. Other Essex class ships, like the Oriskany for example, which was a younger carrier, worked non-stop (except for two SBC conversions) from her launching in 1948 through a number of very hard cruises during Vietnam. By 1972, the ship was worn beyond the economic scope to keep it in service, also, she was obsolete. Just like the oil burning carriers (Kitty Hawk and Kennedy) now, they just cost much more to operate that nuclear carriers. On the Constellation website, the skipper explains this very well when asked why the Connie was being decomissioned. He compared the fuel bill of the Connie to that of the Ronald Reagan like that of a SUV to a Geo Metro.
Politics has something to do with it as well. The Enterprise, as compared to the newer nukes, is way past it's economic prime, but too many brass are too close to the ship to allow her to leave the fleet. She has too much public and sentimental value, and they claim to be testing her to see if the new supercarriers can maintain a 50 year service life.

The Lex is a 1/700 Hasagawa Essex kit I conververted back in 1991to her 1956 appearance for a former crew member. I should have some pics ready later in the week.

Scott

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 12:43 PM
Speaking of the Enterprise, I just this minute got back to the office from a little inspection on the Big E. Fresh paint can hide a lot of flaws and the Enterprise has always been kept well painted and for good reason. She was and is an ongoing experiment in the use of multiple reactor plants and is holding up fairly well. The America was a workhorse and not a showboat like the Enterprise and was beaten to death. She was not a lemon like the Kennedy.
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Winsted CT
Posted by jimz66 on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 5:19 PM
Not to be foolish, if they wanted to would it be econimical or possible to upgrade the Big E with newer reactors? I read on one of my emails that they were even considering doing that with the Indy, which made no sense to me. The email claimed they were going to "cut her in half" then remover her boilers and lengthen her. It just made no sense to me for them to do that. Not only that this was long after Indy was in mothballs. Just didn't seam realisticly possible.
Phantoms rule the skies!!!
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 6:05 PM
The ship (Big E) was refueled about five years ago (for the last time) . It would not be feasible to install new reactors (they don't make them any more) and since the ship is configured for eight little reactors the type the Nimitz class uses won't fit (two big ones). Converting a fossil fuel burner into a nuke would be more costly and difficult than building a new ship from scratch. The Kennedy was supposedly slated to be a nuke but the new designs for the Nimitz's were still coming down the pike and the Navy didn't want to delay the building of the Kennedy because of all the old carriers reaching the ends of their days. If you look at the Kennedy you can see it is a unique design (check out the funnel).

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 9:20 PM
I read somewhere that the fate of the America is to be sunk as a target, I hope that doesn't happen.
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Winsted CT
Posted by jimz66 on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 9:30 PM
You got to be kidding me. Are you serious? You know enough of this. I can't believe the Navy would do that. I sure hope it isn't true.
Phantoms rule the skies!!!
  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Connecticut
Posted by DBFSS385 on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 7:52 AM
Carriers are targets..... I've seen the America Shes big and Beautiful and served proudly..but It would be better to train a few attack sub crews with live fire rounds on "retired "carriers than Mothballing them.. It would be cheaper to... Just a thought..
Be Well/DBF Walt
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Central MI
Posted by therriman on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 8:51 AM
It would be interesting to see what kind of damage they could take, and how long it would take to sink. The Navy has pinned all there hopes on ships that have no idea how much real damage they could take.
Tim H. "If your alone and you meet a Zero, run like hell. Your outnumbered" Capt Joe Foss, Guadalcanal 1942 Real Trucks have 18 wheels. Anything less is just a Toy! I am in shape. Hey, Round is a shape! Reality is a concept not yet proven.
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 8:54 AM
It would take a lot of torps but it wouldn't be a fair evaluation since there wouldn't be any damage control teams to fight the damage.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Central MI
Posted by therriman on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:38 AM
You'd need to throw in some cruise missiles too.
Tim H. "If your alone and you meet a Zero, run like hell. Your outnumbered" Capt Joe Foss, Guadalcanal 1942 Real Trucks have 18 wheels. Anything less is just a Toy! I am in shape. Hey, Round is a shape! Reality is a concept not yet proven.
  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Connecticut
Posted by DBFSS385 on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 12:01 PM
Actually only one torp..
Hell I've been out since 75 and back then we had MK 37s and 45s ( baby nuke) that would do the job.. Serious business guys..
Be Well/DBF Walt
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 2:08 PM
Anybody see the price of scrapmetal lately???? Up over $3 /lb for sheet steel and beam. She's probably going to fetch a good price is the Feds to drag their feet too much.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 2:28 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by therriman

It would be interesting to see what kind of damage they could take, and how long it would take to sink. The Navy has pinned all there hopes on ships that have no idea how much real damage they could take.


Look up the USS Stark. she was a Frigate but she took 2 Exocet ASMs, one in the hull below the bridge and another in the CIC, and stayed afloat. I imagine a carrier could take many similar hits.
  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by Boatshop on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:13 PM
Remember, the Navy uses a lot of the stuff from a de-commisoned carrier,ie anchors, props, rudders etc. I remember her being tied up at pier 12 in Norfolk after some of her sea trials. What a ship. I was on the Forrestal, & even tho it will get scraped out, that is a whole lot better than a target practice. That was my My 2 cents [2c] worth.

Jim Q What isn't tried, won't work

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:36 PM
It's all in the compartmentization of the hull. There are voids, berthing spaces, offices , shops etc. that are all water tight that surround the more vital spaces.. Only large, open spaces like the engineering spaces could admit enough water to cause real problems. Even the Yorktown didn't sink until she was scuttled. Torpedoes ideally explode under the hull where it is the most vulnerable. You could probably break the thing up into individually floating chunks I suppose. And the notion of nuclear torpedoes would work pretty well against a submarine, too. I think there used to be some kind of nuclear depth charge at one time or another.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:43 PM
Mischief [:-,]What a waste! Little to be gained by such target practice.Disapprove [V]

Let's turn 'em into low-income housing, a naval museum, an Al Queda prison hulk, Sadaam's new temporary palace, a casino for a coastal Native American Tribe, an R/C plane airfield, a modern sculpture in some harbor, etc. etc. Tongue [:P]

Sad [:(] Yeh, I know...some group would have to agree to maintain 'em, make sure they weren't a hazard to navigation, etc. It would cost a lot of $$$. Angry [:(!]

Whistling [:-^] Oh, well...I can dream.Wink [;)]

"Should we prosper it shall be as is our custom...by Miracle!"Captain [4:-)]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 8:45 PM
Yup, it's right here

http://ussamerica-museumfoundation.org/home.html

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: UK
Posted by gregers on Friday, March 12, 2004 4:10 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by azrog


an Al Queda prison hulk, Sadaam's new temporary palace,


oooo yes, just before they use her as target practice Evil [}:)]Wink [;)]
Greg
Why torture yourself when life will do it for you?
  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Mike F6F on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 5:34 PM
The America was retired for one reason. The ship was constructed of a lesser grade of steel than the other ships.

Robert Strange MacNamara as SECDEF thought he could save some money by using cheeper steel when the America was constructed, so the ship was decommissioned because the hull was in no condition to last. The JFK, Enterprise, Kitty Hawk and Connie were built with better steel.

The Enterprise is indeed still an experiment. The plan is for the ship to serve 54 years and is currently planned to retire and be replaced by CVN 78. Spreading the costs of the nuke ships across 50 years makes them more cost efficent. Nimitz received its only refueling and returned to duty 2 years ago. The "Ike" is finishing up her refueling and overhaul now.

Mike

Mike

 

"Grumman on a Navy Airplane is like Sterling on Silver."

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