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If you were looking for the bad guy at night , at sea , What would you look for ?

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  • Member since
    August 2008
If you were looking for the bad guy at night , at sea , What would you look for ?
Posted by tankerbuilder on Friday, June 19, 2015 9:15 PM

Ah , says this country's leaders , This camouflage will make our ships harder to see .Then the bad guy says No , we'll do this and that'll work . Then they both consult learned shrinks who say " well in the heat of war this pattern will work because they haven't got the presence of mind to pick out the vagaries of the pattern in those conditions . " I of course , say  " BullPuckies " to that !

  Enter a pilot and his implacable crew . What do they fly ? Well , whatever the good guys and bad guys have available to do this . How the heck do you find a ship in the dark of night at sea ? So , You had Bf110 night fighters and other types ,  and Short Sunderlands and PBY 5 Catalina's looking for the other sides ships at night .

      Why didn't the navies of both sides , suffer more losses to these predators of the sky ? It's easy , the lower ranked spotters in these planes were only listened to half the time by their ego driven officers anyway . So the officer corp. of both sides were to wrapped up in themselves to realize the tail gunner or blister gunner saw a wake of a ship .

 How could they do this ? Hey , it's nature folks .You stir up the oceans with a couple of thousands of shaft horsepower with those screws and you leave a trail of living luminescence behind . This is common scientific knowledge . You there fore light up a trail right to your stern . Bingo - Gotcha !

Did you know that early in the U-Boat offensive the U-boat crews learned to study the water after surfacing .Especially that well away from the boat .That way if there was Bio-luminiscence present they trailed it for a while . If it took on a tight pattern they knew they were headed in the right direction . Again Bingo - Gotcha !

Yes ,  linear bio-luminesence was and is visible from less than ten feet above the waves on a fairly quiet night . Now in sailing days this was near impossible .There was disturbance , yes . But a rolling gentle type that disbursed after the ships rudder closed the linear wake behind the ship .There were no screws tossing and stirring up the water ! Anybody choose to chime in . Remember we are talking about all of W.W.1 at sea and part of W.W.2 ( the non-sonar , non radar early years ) .

  • Member since
    January 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Friday, June 19, 2015 9:38 PM

Try finding this one. Better yet, can you see it?

thumbpress.com/a-camouflaged-swedish-navy-ship-can-you-see-it

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, June 19, 2015 11:21 PM

Pretty easy to see a 6" diameter vertical steel pipe moving through the seas at 5 knots, too.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, June 20, 2015 12:44 AM
In his book, Lost Moon, Apollo 13 astronaut Jim Lovell tells of a close call he had while flying a Banshee off the aircraft carrier Shangri-La in the Sea of Japan. 
It was a very dark night and the problem was that when it came close to the time to land he couldn't find the carrier. He was following a homing signal but instead of leading him to the carrier it was leading him away from it. The homing signal that he was following was a different signal that originated on the mainland of Japan and it was broadcasting on the same frequency as the carrier's. 
When he realised that he wasn't where he was supposed to be, Lovell turned to his knee board. Back then pilots used to have a little board that they attached to the top of their knees. On it was written all the day's communication codes. Those codes were given to the pilots just before they took off and Lovell needed some of the codes to communicate with the carrier. 
The problem was that the codes were written in such tiny print that in the past Lovell had had trouble reading them in the dim light of the cockpit. Lovell had therefore devised what he thought was an ingenious invention. He had collected some spare parts and made up a little light that he attached to his knee board. He could plug it into the airplane's electrical receptacle and all he had to do was flip a switch, it would then give him enough light to read the knee board. This would be his first chance to try out his invention. 
When he flipped the switch there was a brilliant flash of light and everything went black. Lovell had overloaded the circuitry and it had shorted itself out, losing every bulb in the instrument panel. He quickly got out his tiny flashlight to look over his instrument panel. He knew that he was in a lot of trouble and thought that he might have to ditch in the sea. After a few seconds he switched his flashlight off and contemplated what he was going to do. 
That's when he saw, far below, a faint greenish glow that formed a shimmery trail in the water. The propellers of the aircraft carrier had disturbed some phosphorescent algae in the water and churned it so that it glowed faintly. Lovell followed this trail and soon found his carrier. He later said that if his cockpit lights had not have shorted out, he never would have seen the phosphorescent trail, it could only be seen in the pitch dark. The shorting out of his instrument lights had actually saved him.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2007
  • From: Finland funland
Posted by Trabi on Saturday, June 20, 2015 9:42 AM

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

Try finding this one. Better yet, can you see it?

thumbpress.com/a-camouflaged-swedish-navy-ship-can-you-see-it

And here´s Finnish version from war time. Battleship "Väinämöinen":

 

"Space may be the final frontier, but it´s made in Hollywood basement." RHCP, Californication

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, June 20, 2015 12:11 PM

I think it's pretty universally accepted that a moving ship can't be hidden from an airplane. There's just no way to get rid of the wake, which is several times as long as the ship. I'll be interested too see underway photos of that new destroyer, the Zumwalt, which has a "wave-piercing" hull form.

As those photos in this thread establish, it is possible to hide a stationary warship pretty effectively from eyes on the ground or water. It's also worth remembering, though, that many camouflage schemes are designed not to hide the ship but to confuse its outline, or make the enemy misjudge its course. Those dazzle schemes actually made the ships more conspicuous, but played havoc with the split-image rangefinders in periscopes.

A few years back I had to review an outstanding book on the history of French battleships. I can't lay hands on it at the moment, but I remember a colored drawing of one of them that spent a substantial part of WWII tied up on the waterfront of a city in North Africa. She was painted a pale yellow overall, to blend in with the buildings behind her. A model in that scheme would raise some eyebrows.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Miami, FL
Posted by Felix C. on Saturday, June 20, 2015 1:24 PM

Jean Bart

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Saturday, June 20, 2015 8:34 PM

US ships would sometimes steam slow on moonless nights to avoid bioluminescence, but it was obviously a trade off. You traded cruising range for safety.

Professor - it would be more accurate to say that you can't hide a ship from an ecosphere of threats. A nice dark paint and slow cruising speed (lack of wake) will hide a ship fairly effectively from airplanes, but will silhouette it for surface attacksers (other ships and submarines) against a light sky. Paint a ship in a light color to make it blend in better with the sky for surface enemies and you have a beacon for aerial attackers. What's a captain to do?

I ran across a 1960s US Navy manual on maneuvering ships to minimize detection at the archives but didn't have the time to scan or even flip through it. Hopefully some day.

Tracy White Researcher@Large

  • Member since
    August 2008
Posted by tankerbuilder on Sunday, June 21, 2015 10:02 AM

Tracy :

You will find that book to be especially fascinating .There was a copy in the ships Library when I took the command of the " Shell Orion ". Seems that the former commander was an Ex- Navy academy type .

      I figured he probably left it behind in the captains cabin . There were many books on Navigation and even a W.W.2 publication printed for the Royal Navy on submarine detection without As-Dic and watch standing training .

      All interesting books I gotta say . I especially liked the publication on port maneuvers . I guess they didn't think that at 1,250- feet I would not have to maneuver in a tight harbor without a tug team !

  • Member since
    August 2008
Posted by tankerbuilder on Sunday, June 21, 2015 10:06 AM

BlackSheep214:

Look to the lower left in the picture . Right where the water meets the shore , by a triangular cave ?

  • Member since
    August 2008
Posted by tankerbuilder on Sunday, June 21, 2015 10:07 AM

 Trabi ;

Never have yet seen a forested shore with it's own fighting top !

  • Member since
    August 2008
Posted by tankerbuilder on Sunday, June 21, 2015 10:14 AM

Tracy ;

   My Dad ( God rest his soul ) served in the Merchant Navy in the Atlantic .He said that many times when the ship got left behind if you were careful and the wind was right , you could smell the specific acrid scent of burned coal or oil from the rest of the vessels .

   Being that this was a result of chemical particulates in the air it could be smelled better at waterline level . Read ; On the deck of a almost surfaced U-Boat . Remember many ran with decks awash till they found targets .

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: clinton twp,mi
Posted by humper491 on Thursday, June 25, 2015 1:39 AM

ok, now i understand what you said when we were talking about it... that's my comment, so there :)

Humper Beam

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: clinton twp,mi
Posted by humper491 on Thursday, June 25, 2015 1:41 AM

ughm no, if you hadn't told me what to look for i don't think i would have seen it.

Humper Beam

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