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Old LifeLike-Pyro "Brig of War"

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  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Central Nebraska
Posted by freem on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 9:39 PM

Sidebar to the discussion here but I am about to finish a book titled "Knights of the Sea" by David Hanna.  It concerns the HMS Boxer and USS Enterprise and their encounter during the War of 1812.  Excellent read and goes into a broad discussion of the war and events leading up the the battle off the coast of Maine.  Well worth the 10 bucks I invested in it.

Chris Christenson

 

  • Member since
    February 2010
Posted by paulhelfrich on Monday, December 14, 2015 12:54 AM

Wow, I'm really pleased with all the discussion my post has garnered!   That will inspire me to finish my current sailing ship project: the "Half Moon" from the same old Pyro-Lifelike line (also currently re-popped by Round 2). Smile

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Wednesday, November 25, 2015 12:31 PM
That is very nice! Good work!

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Wednesday, November 25, 2015 9:17 AM

A friend gave me the Gjoa kit a couple of years ago, but it is NOT for sale, I do intend to build it.  The generous friend also gave me the Newsboy kit.  He has switched from wood to plastic- felt life was too short to waste on wood kits :-)

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: Jacksonville, Florida
Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Wednesday, November 25, 2015 7:38 AM

GMorrison

NEWS FLASH: Any serious study of ships needs to include Scandinavia.  In Sweden there is Vasa, in Denmark the Roskilde ships, in Norway the Oseberg/ Gokstad ships plus the Fram and the Gjoa.

Oh, absolutely.

"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, November 25, 2015 2:00 AM

Just a little dip into nostalgia. Having apparently made a case for being a decent modeler by the time I was ten, my father bought me a Model Shipways Gjoa kit. We went out together and looked over the real thing at the Western end of Golden Gate Park. Years later she was returned to Oslo, refurbished and put on display.

NEWS FLASH: Any serious study of ships needs to include Scandinavia.  In Sweden there is Vasa, in Denmark the Roskilde ships, in Norway the Oseberg/ Gokstad ships plus the Fram and the Gjoa.

I have that model still.

He then bought the Fair American. I failed to make it look complete. I really wish I had the model still.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, November 25, 2015 1:35 AM

Vagabond_Astronomer

This is the little blog entry I hinted at in my previous comment. It is where I basically commit to this model as my next project. In this, I discuss the model's shortcomings. 

The Lindberg "Brig of War", A Conundrum in Plastic

Still planning to keep the improvements simple for now. We'll see what happens when I commence.

 

Cheers,

- Robert

 

The Lindberg model has the yards in the correct position. Thats all I would think it takes.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, November 25, 2015 1:32 AM

warshipguy

I remember building this kit and giving it to a girl when I was 17.  She ended up becoming my wife.

Won mine over, we were on a trade trip to China in 1985 and her Nikon SLR stopped taking pictures. Did a field strip (the camera you idiot!) with locally procured parts and toothbrushes.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: Jacksonville, Florida
Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 10:44 PM

This is the little blog entry I hinted at in my previous comment. It is where I basically commit to this model as my next project. In this, I discuss the model's shortcomings. 

The Lindberg "Brig of War", A Conundrum in Plastic

Still planning to keep the improvements simple for now. We'll see what happens when I commence.

 

Cheers,

- Robert

"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 10:22 PM

I'll just say this, that a 18th Century brig comes in about as many shapes as Chevrolets in the 1950's, or well, women throughout time. (men too).

I think in this very nice little example of a massively produced, reasonably accurate compared to say most of the models sold as "Galleons", a model that a good modeler can sit back and look at and say, if I were designing this how would I set up the spars? Truly a win-win.

I really wish I still had my forever unfinished FA. Given to me a little too young.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: Jacksonville, Florida
Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 9:17 PM

Ironically, already busy working on a blog entry about the model. I reduced some old Italian plans for the "Fair American" to the same size as the model, and took pictures of the larger plastic pieces compared with them. In short, these are my findings - 

Model is a bit too beamy, and it looks as though they simply made the model wider as they went astern. Transom is therefore twice as wide as it should be. Correcting this would be a bear.

Masts are close to scale, bowsprit perhaps 1/4" too short. However, they are flimsy, and as Prof. Tilley pointed out, not very detailed.

Yards and sails are really undersized. 

If one was willing to just go the simple route and make properly sized yards and booms, that would be enough. The ship's generous beam and overly so posterior wouldn't distract too much... I think. But correcting all the problems would be a challenge.

This round, my attempt is to just address the masts, yards, and deck detail. Though that quarterdeck and transom nags me. Sadly, they just about got the model dead on in profile.

Cheers,

 - Robert

"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 7:01 PM

You can read the instructions for the Model Shipways kit, complete with illustrations, on the web: http://www.modelexpo-online.com/images/docs/MS2015/MS2015-Fair_American-Instruction_Manual-Complete.pdf .

You can also buy the plans, but they aren't exactly cheap: $50.00.

It's to be remembered that the old Pyro kit is, as GM pointed out, a pirated, miniaturized version of an earlier, solid-hull version of the Model Shipways kit, which is, in turn, a model of a model. The whole sequence goes back to a contemporary (or near-contemporary) model of a brig in the U.S. Naval Academy Museum. That model has the name "Fair American" painted on the transom; that's the only reason to attribute the name to an actual vessel. (The name was quite a common one in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries.) Quite a few people have done research on that model over the years, but nobody has ever figured out exactly what vessel it represents or when it was built. As the instruction book indicates, the rigging contains some anachronisms (the dolphin striker, for instance) that don't click with the guesstimated time period of the American Revolution - but there's no way to tell how many times the model has been restored or altered. We don't even know on what plan, if any, it was based. Even the scale of the old relic is a guess.

I'd have to compare the Pyro kit with the MS plans to be sure, but I'm inclined to agree with Mr. Helfrich: it does look like Pyro may have exaggerated the beam a little. It also looks to me like the quarterdeck may not have enough taper to it; the MS kit's seems to be proportionally narrower at the transom. I don't think the people responsible for designing those tiny sailing ship kits were particularly interested in making them look like real ships. (The Golden Hind, which I can remember building with great pleasure when I was in elementary school, has a hull form that's pretty amusing.) I remember thinking of them as 50-cent kits that could be picked up at the drug store around the corner from our house. (For a dollar you could pick up the kit, a couple of bottles of Testor's glossy paint, a camel hair brush, and a tube of glue, and have enough left over for a cherry phosphate at the soda fountain. I remember painting that Golden Hind overall with Testor's gold. My parents thought it was beautiful - or, as my mother probably put it, "adorable.")                                     

GM is right about the locations of the yards: the person who drew the instructions told the modeler to mount them one "level" too low. The lower yards belong just a few scale feet below the tops. I can't blame Mr. Helfrich if he leaves them as they are, though.

The idea of "re-scaling" the spar plan is interesting. I can't see any rational reason to use the kit masts and yards at all, though. An hour's work with some small dowels (or pieces of wire), and maybe some plastic sheet for the tops, would produce something considerably more realistic than Pyro's nondescript shapes.

At any rate, it does have the potential to be turned into a nice little scale model - and given the history of the plans, nobody can really say how accurate it is.

 

 

 

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 6:37 PM

My only suggestion is to set the yard for the course right up under the tops, then set the upper two yards lowered if no sails or raised if sails set. I'm not sure what the FA drawings show, but the model is usually built without sails. I really wish I still had mine.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: Jacksonville, Florida
Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 6:29 PM

Just want to add a correction to my earlier measurements. The sails and yards are 1/240, the bowsprit a little short, and the mizzen booms also a bit small, but the masts are pretty close. Just compared them to better drawings. 

 - RL

"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 11:23 AM

I built one of these ages ago, when quantity trumped quality.  You have displayed great talent here, a splendid job.  As far as the pointed out technical shape issues go, all I can say is beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: Jacksonville, Florida
Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 10:53 AM

warshipguy

That should be easy to correct.  A few wooden dowels, a small lathe (or Dremel Moto-Tool), a little trial and error, tissue paper sails, and voila!  A complete model in 1/170.

I see you're on to me!

I am thinking that the kit's mast and sails might work on the smaller Heller copy of this kit ("L'Orguellise"), which frees up those masts and sails for an even smaller model ad infinitum...

"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 9:50 AM

That should be easy to correct.  A few wooden dowels, a small lathe (or Dremel Moto-Tool), a little trial and error, tissue paper sails, and voila!  A complete model in 1/170.

 

Like Mayflower, you did a beautiful job!

Happy Thanksgiving!

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: Jacksonville, Florida
Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 9:43 AM

I was looking at this model and trying to think of what looked odd about it (nothing against this build, but the original kit). I found some drawings of the "Fair American", started comparing, and found the problem.

The hull is in 1/170. The masts and sails are in 1/240. 

By the way, this is my next project, pretty sure at this point...

"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Monday, November 23, 2015 5:43 AM

I remember building this kit and giving it to a girl when I was 17.  She ended up becoming my wife.

I do have fond memories of this kit. It was the first sailing ship I had built (long before 17), and it inspired me to purchase the old Model Shipways solid hull Fair American kit (which I still have on the mantle in my den.  Although the old Pyro kit, ne: Lindberg, seems a little beamy, the kit's dimensions look close to the MS kit.

By the way, you did a nice job!

Bill 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Central Nebraska
Posted by freem on Sunday, November 22, 2015 8:39 PM

This kit is available in a current Lindberg boxing.  I built it years ago, and I have spied it on the shelves at HobbyTown.  It sings a siren song to me, but so far I have resisted. 

Does look way too wide at the beam.  Cool nonetheless.

Chris Christenson

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Wednesday, November 18, 2015 6:20 PM

Looks great Rob. I might have to pick up one of these kits and give it a go.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, November 17, 2015 6:26 PM

Here's a constructive "crit". The locations of the yards are very odd, very low. I found a photo of the instruction sheet and the way this was built does match the instructions. The top gallant yard is shown attaching to the mast at the topmast crosstrees. And since the yards/ sails doohickey is a single part, that puts the main sail yard about halfway down the mast.

But....the illustration on the box shows otherwise; the yard for the course is right below the main top where it should be, the top sail yard further up the topmast, and on up.

If possible, if it were me, I'd try to break the things loose and raise them up a bunch.

Here's a wack theory. The Fair American as represented by Model Shipways,  has her sails missing. Therefore the yards are lowered. This model by contrast of course has her sails set. Maybe the copiers at Pyro followed the one, added sails and off to the races.

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: Jacksonville, Florida
Posted by Vagabond_Astronomer on Tuesday, November 17, 2015 5:14 PM

I just discovered that this kit was, indeed, "borrowed" from the old Model Shipways "Fair American". Very tempted to make this my next project. Very tempted.

"I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night..."
  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Tuesday, November 17, 2015 11:42 AM

Nice finish!  You breathed life into that nostalgia kit.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, November 17, 2015 12:22 AM

It's a "Pyr"ate of the Model Shipways Fair American.

It's a neat looking model.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: brisbane australia
Posted by surfsup on Tuesday, November 17, 2015 12:16 AM

Looks very nice for it's age and a bit of fun thrown in.....Cheers Mark

If i was your wife, i'd poison your tea! If Iwas your husband, I would drink it! WINSTON CHURCHILL

  • Member since
    February 2010
Old LifeLike-Pyro "Brig of War"
Posted by paulhelfrich on Monday, November 16, 2015 8:06 PM

This old kit is kind of a generic brig and seems a little tubby in shape.  With that said, I always enjoy building these old kits of unusual subjects and trying to make them look as good as they can be. 

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