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First Model- Revell HMS Bounty

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  • Member since
    January 2016
First Model- Revell HMS Bounty
Posted by JDavis657 on Sunday, January 17, 2016 7:33 PM

Hello everyone, total rookie here!:) I've never built a model before in my life, but I have always had a fascination with ships from the Age of Sail. My father made an entirely scratch-built USS Rattlesnake before I was born, and I can remember just sitting and staring at the incredible details when I was a kid. Maybe someday I'll have that kind of skill, but then again, my father is one of those infuriating people that makes things like that look easy. 

Anywhoo, I was watching my husband play a video game with all kinds of ships, and I randomly decided that I needed to build one. Being the kind of person who refuses to do anything halfway, I also decided that I needed to learn how to airbrush. I also immediately decided that plastic ratlines look terrible and the sails in my kit are awful, so those should be fun things to overcome. I'm a glutton for punishment I suppose. 

Before I settled on the Revell HMS Bounty for my first kit, I did a ton of forum stalking, so I figured now I might as well participate instead of being a creeper. Here is what I've accomplished so far, and I have a question as well: I've looked at a bunch of intricate Bounty models for inspiration on extra details, and they seem to show different ways of running the rope for the anchors. Some of them run along the top of the deck, and others go into holes in the deck and out then through holes in the bow. Which is correct, or is that debatable? Personally I think the holes look nicer and make more sense, and I do love an excuse to use my new obnoxiously tiny drill bits, but my obsessive attention to detail and accuracy demands that I find an answer. :)

I'm looking forward to participating in discussions and getting some input while I fumble my way through this.

 

So airbrushing is fun! I think the painting will be my favorite part.

 

I don't really know how Revell thinks you're supposed to run thread around tiny little nubs of plastic, but that's okay, because I have wire and those awesome micro drill bits.

 

I added some more wire eyebolts to tie down the boat. Don't want the tiny sailors to lose their tiny boat when they are sailing the high seas! I might be having entirely too much fun here. This is the point when I realized that I didn't know what to do with the anchor rope, since if I drill holes I'll need to get that in place before I go much further.

 

Jessica

  • Member since
    January 2016
Posted by JDavis657 on Monday, January 18, 2016 1:16 PM

Didn't realize that the photos got compressed before I uploaded them. Here are better ones.

Jessica

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Monday, January 18, 2016 10:18 PM

Jessica,

First off, welcome aboard. Hopefully you have come to the right place. We are mostly harmless here, so if you have a question, ask. You are already posting pictures, which we all like to check out.

So far, it looks like you are off to a good start. Nice clean airbrushing and clean glueing. I agree that there are numerous fixes you can make on the Bounty, but even for its age, it is the best for plastic injection models. If you have not already checked out the amazing Revell Bounty that Prof Tilley made, then here a link to it.

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/7/t/155394.aspx

Just remember, that this is the gold standard when it comes to this kit, but hopefully it should inspire you since you already want to go that extra mile.

In regards to your question regarding the hawser line, on this kit I would suggest running it out of the hawser holes and rig the anchor to that. Then secure your anchors to the rails. In English, that means lace the thread out of the holes on either side, affix the anchors and then tie them to the railing.

If you are interested in getting detailed information, a great book for the HMS Bounty is the Anotomy of the Ship book. The series on a whole are great research material, although some are better than others

Steve

 

       

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Monday, January 18, 2016 10:52 PM
Well, I just had a quick look through John McKay's "The Armed Transport BOUNTY" (part of the Anatomy of the Ship series ). No through -deck hawsepipes are shown there. Which suggests that the anchor line was just passed through an open hatch down into the cable tier belowdecks. Bounty is small enough that they might have detached (un bent, nautically) the anchor line from the anchors when they were stowed. Might not, same difference. Probably germane to relay that the anchor lines are not winched directly--it was, after all, a 12" circumference line--but were attached to a smaller line which went around either the windlass (the horizontal bit a the bow) or the capstan (the vertical bit further aft. Small lines were used to bind the traveller line to the anchor line. The lines "bit" into the larger line. The ship's boys were in charge of this, and they whipped the biting line on and off the traveller. This occurred at the feet of the sailors manning windlass or capstan. The boys were said to "nip" the line, and as they got underfoot, they might get a kick from an irascible sailor. In response, the nippers might snap their lines and become whippersnappers.
  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, January 18, 2016 10:57 PM

That lighter line is called a messenger.

A lady! Break out the rum, the Cap'n open a Claret and carved a chop.

Welcome aboard Jess.

You look to be a fine modeler, and it's a pleasure to see manicured fingers in the pictures, rather than the ugly stubs we all call digits.

None the less she is a fine model. If I recall, the deck even has camber.

Not to diminish his nibs, but the fine Admirals Rattlesnake was a kit. A very fine one, and not an easy build, but a wood kit sold by Model Shipways. Quite an endevour too.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 8:48 AM

Wow, for a novice that ship so far is amazing.  I would have assumed just from the photos it was the work of a quite-experienced modeler.  If there are any model clubs in the area I would advise you to join one. I expect when you get just a few more built, you will be bringing home lots of medals and trophies.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    August 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 9:12 AM

I'll echo Don's comments.  It all goes to help prove what has been known in my profession of auto body and paint, a woman has a better touch for things.  Attention to detail, patience, etc.  Must have to do with genetics and dealing with kids and us bigger klutzes.

Welcome, and start giving us lessonsBig Smile

  • Member since
    January 2016
Posted by JDavis657 on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 9:24 AM

Thank you everyone for the input and the warm welcome. The part that made me uncertain is that there are no hawse holes (word #1 in my new nautical vocabulary) or hatches or anything. The instructions show you just running the rope through the rails, which seemed odd as I wouldn't expect rails to support the weight of a real anchor. 

I'll have to get myself a copy of that book. I'm thinking that I need to get something on rigging too. I dont know how crazy I will get with the rigging on this one... The instructions have simple and detailed versions that I haven't looked at too closely. I'm concerned that I will get frustrated with that more than anything. At least I have steady hands and tiny tweezers. 

Jessica

  • Member since
    January 2016
Posted by JDavis657 on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 1:09 PM

Here is the hull so far. I forced myself to ignore the wood plank pattern where there should be copper plates. I'm not that crazy yet. 

Jessica

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 1:34 PM

Welcome to the Forum! You'll find lots of strange people here, but most of us are harmless.

The model looks mighty impressive so far. The kit is mighty old now, but in many ways it still compares well with more recent kits.

The reason for the confusion about the hawseholes is simple: Revell just made a mistake. The plans of the real ship show that the bulwarks in the bow rise a few feet above the deck, and there are hawseholes through the bulwarks. You're right: that arrangement in the instructions, whereby the anchors are tied together, is just plain silly.

The Bounty was unusual in having both a windlass (horizontal winch at the bow) and a capstan (vertical winch aft of the mainmast). I think the capstan was added when the ship was taken into the Royal Navy. The Navy gave her a considerably larger crew, which made the capstan more efficient than the windlass.

When I built mine (more years ago than I like to think about), I replaced the plastic deck with wood and located it at the right height in the bow; they I drilled out the hawseholes. As you can see from the photos in the thread that Docidle kindly linked us to, I rigged the hawsers (anchor cables) to the windlass. They come through the hawseholes, around the windlass, and down the foremost hatch to the cable tier. It would be possible to haul up the anchors with the capstan, as CaptMac described, but the gear to do it wouldn't be set up all the time.

Bravo for figuring out about the copper sheathing (the documentation about the real ship leaves no doubt about it; I don't know how Revell missed it), and for getting the waterline in the right place. One point to think about: I'm pretty sure the blue paint on the hull was invented by the people who made the 1959 movie "Mutiny on the Bounty" (the Marlon Brando version). I've done a good bit of reading about the Bounty, and I've never found any reference to a blue hull prior to 1959. (There apparently are no genuine, contemporary, color pictures of the ship.) On the other hand, I don't know of any firm evidence that it wasn't blue.

Good luck. It's a great hobby.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 1:36 PM

Welcome and fantastic job...great little model to begin with...lots of ample detail and still not so much you will lose your mind.

I'll enjoy following your build log.

 

Rob

  • Member since
    January 2016
Posted by JDavis657 on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 1:55 PM
  • Thank you so much for the info. I'm thinking that I will drill holes in the deck and out the front for the hawseholes. I feel like it will look nicer that way since I'll just be putting the deck in as-is. As far as the color goes, I read that there wasn't really any good info on the actual colors, and I liked the blue, so I just went with that. It is kind of nice to just do whatever I want for that part. 

Jessica

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 8:01 AM

Hi Jessica,

For a first ship, you have me fooled, I have been modeling for many years and you have me beat.

And a great choice for a first build.  I have built this kit a few times and always liked how it went together. Its great for learing how a three masted square rigger goes together without being too intimidating.  And unlike a warship, you don't spend a few hours messing with cannos.  I never built it for authenticity because, as you are finding out, its open to debate, so just have fun and build it to suit you taste.  

  • Member since
    January 2016
Posted by JDavis657 on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 12:56 PM

Got some more tiny details finished before I really start glueing things together. I really do love painting the tiny details, though my chiropractor would have an aneurism if he saw how long I spent hunched over my table yesterday.

Hawseholes! I've found that there are lots of useful things in the jewelry making section of the craft store. I found tiny eye pins too, which means I don't have to painstakingly make eyebolts out of wire anymore. I think half of those got dropped on the floor in the process, never to be seen again.

Jessica

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 4:12 PM

To my knowledge there's no really reliable information on the color scheme of the actual Bounty. When I was digging through the documents (that was a long time ago), I recall finding only three little snippets. Bligh's log mentioned "blackening" the yards and the "bends" (probably the wales - the pieces of thick timber just above the waterline), and he mentioned that, after the ship got to Tahiti, he ordered the figurehead "painted in colors," and the Tahitians "sat staring at it for hours." So nothing says the hull planking wasn't blue.

One small point - I think GM was a little quick to say that Jessica's father's model of the Rattlesnake was a Model Shipways kit. That ship was a popular modeling subject for a long time before that kit was issued. (Plans of the Rattlesnake were published in Howard I. Chapelle's famous History of American Sailing Ships, in 1935. The Model Shipways kit, if I remember right, first appeared in the 1960s.)

Model Shipways has offered several versions of that ship over the years. In about 1972 I bought one that had a solid pine hull. The one being sold today is on the "plank-on-bulkhead" system. I seem to have a vague recollection that one of the Italian manufacturers used to sell a Rattlesnake as well. So Jessica's father might have worked from scratch, or from any of several kits.

A suggestion. I agree that the molded plastic shrouds and ratlines are hideous junk. (A little terminology: the shrouds are the vertical lines, the ratlines are the horizontal ones. The shrounds are supposed to be much heavier than the ratlines.) The question then becomes how to replace them. One option you might consider is to rig the shrouds, but leave the ratlines off. I know from experience that rigging ratlines on that small scale is a challenge; perhaps it would be better to wait for a larger scale model. If the shrouds are rigged neatly and to scale, few people will care that the ratlines aren't there.

The plastic deadeye and lanyards in the kit aren't bad. If, on the other hand, you want to get a little more sophisticated a fine company called Bluejacket Shipcrafters sells cast metal "combo units" that would look better - and probably be easier to rig. Here's a link: http://www.bluejacketinc.com/fittings/fittings6.htm . I'd suggest the smallest of the "deadeyes with lanyards."

One more thing. If you're looking for a book to help with the rigging (and all sorts of other things), you can't do much better than George Campbell's The Neophyte Shipmodeler's Jackstay. It's primarily aimed at builders of solid-hull wood kits, but it contains all sorts of terminology and advice that are applicable to any sort of sailing ship model. If you learn everything in that book, you're well on the way toward becoming a knowledgeable sailing ship modeler. And it's cheap. Here's a link: http://www.modelexpo-online.com/product.asp?ITEMNO=MSB110 .

Your Bounty is shaping up into a fine model. Good luck.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 5:30 PM

jtilley

One small point - I think GM was a little quick to say that Jessica's father's model of the Rattlesnake was a Model Shipways kit. That ship was a popular modeling subject for a long time before that kit was issued. (Plans of the Rattlesnake were published in Howard I. Chapelle's famous History of American Sailing Ships, in 1935. The Model Shipways kit, if I remember right, first appeared in the 1960s.)

Model Shipways has offered several versions of that ship over the years. In about 1972 I bought one that had a solid pine hull. The one being sold today is on the "plank-on-bulkhead" system. I seem to have a vague recollection that one of the Italian manufacturers used to sell a Rattlesnake as well. So Jessica's father might have worked from scratch, or from any of several kits.

That is of course correct. Jessica I apologize for my rude tone, which was entirely unintentional, but thoughtless.

By way of making ammends, here's a link to an unusual collection in Napa, near me. Pacific Union College is a Seventh Day Adventist school, the connection being that Pitcairn Islanders were baptised by that faith in the 1880's, and the majority remain so.

http://www.library.puc.edu/pitcairn/index.shtml

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    January 2016
Posted by JDavis657 on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 7:35 PM

No worries; I wasn't offended. He really did scratch build it though- he literally carved the hull from a chunk of wood. I don't know if he even cared that model kits existed. It's not as intricate as many model kits, but there is something beautiful about creating something from nothing. He built it in the 70's when he was living in the Rocky mountains Grizzly-Adams-style after his military service. The man is a legend. I'll try to get a picture of his ship the next time I see him.

Jessica

  • Member since
    January 2016
Posted by JDavis657 on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 8:04 PM

Sorry for all the posting delays... it seemhs that all of my posts still have to be approved by a moderator at this time. My plan for the shrouds/rantlines is to run the shrouds with thicker thread, and the potentially just use a needle and run thinner thread through them with a needle for the ratlines. I'll see how it goes; I'm fortunate enough to have very steady hands, but I'm not going to get too crazy if the ratlines become too much of a chore.

Jessica

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Thursday, January 21, 2016 9:16 AM

As a compromise, somewhere between the needle thing and a clove hitch, simple overhand knots don't look half bad unless the ship is in a pretty large scale.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, January 21, 2016 1:07 PM

Jessica, you've obviously done your homework. The "needle-through-the-shroud" trick would be an excellent one for this model.

Just be warned that there is a learning curve in techniques like this - not so much for your brain as for your fingers. My guess is that the first ratline you rig will take about ten minutes. By the time you get to the masthead you'll be rigging one per minute, and wondering why people make such a fuss about ratlines.

I picked up a trick from the newsletter sent out by BlueJacket last month. A great tool for snipping off the excess thread on ratlines is, of all things, a cuticle nipper. That gadget is, in essence, an extremely small pair of flush-cutting pliers. I read that tip, and the next time I was in Wal-Mart I picked up one of them (made by Revlon). It works great - and as I remember it only cost $5.00 or $6.00. Highly recommended.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Friday, January 22, 2016 9:25 AM

jtilley

Jessica, you've obviously done your homework. The "needle-through-the-shroud" trick would be an excellent one for this model.

Just be warned that there is a learning curve in techniques like this - not so much for your brain as for your fingers. My guess is that the first ratline you rig will take about ten minutes. By the time you get to the masthead you'll be rigging one per minute, and wondering why people make such a fuss about ratlines.

I picked up a trick from the newsletter sent out by BlueJacket last month. A great tool for snipping off the excess thread on ratlines is, of all things, a cuticle nipper. That gadget is, in essence, an extremely small pair of flush-cutting pliers. I read that tip, and the next time I was in Wal-Mart I picked up one of them (made by Revlon). It works great - and as I remember it only cost $5.00 or $6.00. Highly recommended.

 

I concur with this.  Even when it has been only a year or so since the last time I did it, I find the problem re-occurs,  and I spend very close to Mr. Tilley's time progression on just about every sail vessel I build (except for 1:600 scale! ).

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: brisbane australia
Posted by surfsup on Friday, January 22, 2016 7:06 PM

Welcome to our corner of the Net. There are some great minds here if you need to ask any Questions. Looks like you are off to a pretty good start also.....Cheers Mark

If i was your wife, i'd poison your tea! If Iwas your husband, I would drink it! WINSTON CHURCHILL

  • Member since
    January 2016
Posted by JDavis657 on Friday, January 22, 2016 9:04 PM

Progress! I'm trying to decide whether or not to paint a bit of a patina on the hull. The copper looks nice, but it looks so... brand-new. Since I made the deck look worn that doesn't make much sense. At least acrylics are forgiving if I don't like how it turns out. 

Jessica

fox
  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Narvon, Pa.
Posted by fox on Friday, January 22, 2016 11:36 PM

Welcome to the Forums Jessica!  Glad to have you aboard!

Very nice build. Looking forward to seeing the finished ship.

Jim  Captain

 Main WIP: 

   On the Bench: Artesania Latina  (aka) Artists in the Latrine 1/75 Bluenose II

I keep hitting "escape", but I'm still here.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, January 23, 2016 1:38 AM

Jessica, you have a knack for identifying relevant topics in plastic sailing ship models.

When a ship was coppered, she pretty much looked like what you have there. Coppering was a very expensive process. It probably started in the late 18th Century and was replaced by the late 19th Century with better performing techniques such as Muntz metal.

By the early 20th Century big ships were no longer built of wood.

The Bounty only was coppered when she was bought by the Royal Navy in 1787. Three years later she was destroyed, so a single coppering was all she had.

She most probably was never careened, certainly not drydocked, or otherwise scraped.

In other words, from the moment she was coppered until the time she was wrecked and burned, the marine growth was unimpeded.

IF she had ever been exposed to air after being coppered, and depending on how long after that, she could have turned green, but she probably stayed in the water, So it would have been a steady progression of barnacles, slime and vegetation.

She spent quite a while in Tubuai at anchor. That probably was a time where she got quite mossy.

Here is my suggestion. Copper gets a patina when exposed to air. And that takes a long time, maybe ten years. In the meanwhile, it goes from copper to brown to black to green.

A ship hauled out usually looks, and smells, just nasty.

So when building a full hull sailing ship model, there's the question of presentation versus reality.

If bright copper, that would be generally accurate for the day she was launched, and appealing.

If covered in marine growth, ugly.

Otherwise the modeler makes an attempt to make the ship look aged, but still attractive.

 

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    January 2016
Posted by JDavis657 on Saturday, January 23, 2016 9:58 AM

Good to know! When I started the extent of my knowledge was pretty much, "1. Bought by Royal Navy, 2. Mutiny, 3. Serves you right".

Maybe I'll just make the copper a little more dull. I'm thinking that "ocean smegma" won't be very attractive for display. :)

Jessica

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, January 23, 2016 10:12 AM

Interesting term. No, it would not. One of my models, I don't remember which, I added a scum line around the water line but it didn't add much to the presentation.

EDIT: I recall now, it was a Sunderland flying boat on 1/72 scale.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Saturday, January 23, 2016 1:03 PM

Jessica, first and foremost, thanks for stepping out and starting this WIP. I wish more people would do the same. Secondly, this is nice work that you are doing. Keep up the good work and keep them updates coming.

Bakster.

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, January 24, 2016 1:44 AM

JDavis657
extent of my knowledge was pretty much, "1. Bought by Royal Navy, 2. Mutiny, 3. Serves you right".

The Brits still teach this, as Bligh's navigation of the longboat remains a significant bit of seamanship. 

I am jealous, there's no way I could get that revell kit looking that nice.  It's very much starting to look like the illustrations in the Anatomy of the Ship book.

  • Member since
    March 2005
Posted by philo426 on Sunday, January 24, 2016 8:35 AM

To tone the copper down I use Tamiya Dark Copper.Has just the right used look without the disgusting green patina that I just do not like!

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