Great idea. The flags going sideways, genius.

You said to call you crazy. OK. Your crazy, but you do such great work.  I've got to watch this build. This wil be very, very interesting.  Good luck.

Jim  

Thanks GM and Jim,

I went out at lunch today and purchased a 2X36 foam board to start with as well as a thin transparent plastic sheet. I'm thinking of using the sheet as a stiffener inside the wave and building up acrylic gel over and around it. Otherwise the gel itself will sag and go limp.

Steve,

This will be epic! Can't wait to see what you come up with!

hogfanfs

Steve,

This will be epic! Can't wait to see what you come up with!

 

X2.....Got the chips, dip, cola and Jack out for this one

I just pulled the Puffer out of the hat because of the launching date (early enough to justify the 1941 fitting to match the kit) and interesting launching style. I always do some research on my build subject and I found that the boat does have a tie to me. It was sold for scrap on the day I was born, Dec 3 1960. HA, now how about that?

Hello!

I sure would like to see you work on this - I always wanted to make a dio of a Vietnam river boat in a high speed pass, and your techniques could help me do just that...

Good luck with your build and have a nice day

Paweł

Alright sir, I'm here and ready to learn. This is going to be an amazing dio. Your water builds just keep getting better, better and more indepth. The sheet of clear plastic your going to use to create the splashing effect. You know what....I am not going to ask the question I had on my mind. I am just going to sit back and be amazed. I really hope you enjoy the build. I'm here until she is done.

I’m super psyched to get started on this. I believe I’ll put glue to plastic tonight.
Thank you everyone for your confidence.

Wonder if any VIPs got clonked by those beams!

The Manitowoc 28 were all side launched into the river.  The ManShipCo. built and launched all of their ships with the bow pointing up river.  Tradition or historical rumor was that ships launched with their bows facing up river always returned home.  The maximum angle of heel was 48 degrees. 

A good book on the sublect is: Fresh Water SUBMARINES, The Manitowoc Story by Rear Admiral William T. Nelson, USN (Ret.)

An interesting USCG side note is that the USCGC TAMARACK (WAGL248), also built at ManShipCo,  was outfitted with a submarine rescue bell and additional air compressors; she was used as a submarine rescue vessel.

Another interesting diorama idea would be the sub loaded on the floating drydock, on it's journey between Lockport, IL., and New Orleans.  Two different tow boats were used for the trip.  Due to piloting errors or cross winds, there were several times that the bow of the sub was several yards into a cornfield.

"I’m calling it “The launching of the USS Puffer"

Hmmm....

The "Yellow Submarine Operating Launch Car", well it looks puffed up. 

Bob,

This is such an interesting story to me. I never gave thought to were subs were built. I’ve always assumed they were built along the coast and I was interested to learn of some of them being constructed along the shores of Lake Michigan. I assume they were transported along the Ohio and Mississippi to New Orleans.
The scene is so striking to me that it seemed like a perfect diorama subject.
I would like to find that book and do a little reading.

An update to the kit.

As I thought, it’s going together quickly and won’t take long to complete. The inner hull was strange. I installed bulkheads in strategic places along with a floor. These bulkheads have holes where the watertight doors would be. This entire assembly is sealed up and installed into the outer hull. The only reason I can think is for a future cutaway version. I do like the fact that the Limber holes are open. I wish Revell would have done that to their 1/72 U-boats

This is where I’m at now. The inner hull, outer hull and deck has been installed. Everything fit well so I just need a little filler for the seams. I need to do a little research on which deck fittings were installed before launch.

Big Jim, that is funny!

BigJim

"I’m calling it “The launching of the USS Puffer"

Hmmm....

 

The "Yellow Submarine Operating Launch Car", well it looks puffed up. 

 

modelcrazy,

I ran the DC Shop at Base Milwaukee from 1983-87, and that's when I learned about the Manitowoc 28.  After launch, the subs would go out to Lake Michigan for sea trials and training.  Some would make practice torpedo attacks on USS SABLE or USS WOLVERINE, two side wheel steamer converted to training aircraft carriers.  Some of the escorts for the SABLE and WOLVERINE were USCG 78' Patrol Boats built during Prohibition.  After sea trials, the completed sub would sail to Chicago. The route was the Chicago River, Chicago Sanitary & Ship Canal, Illinois River, and MIssissippi River to New Orleans. 

You can get the book from the Wisconsin Maritime Museum in Manitowoc.  Last year the Museum hosted their 1st Annual SubFest.  This year SubFest is July 8-10.  It was a weekend event for the city.  We went for the weekend with 3 of my r/c subs: USS HAMMERHEAD SS-364, in 1:96 scale; USS BARB SSN-596 in 1:96 scale; and the Trumpeter USS SEAWOLF.  They set up a 20' x 40' pool in front of the museum for us to run our boats.  The SubCommittee has a thread about SubFest 2016.

My own connection is with Mare Island in Vallejo, California. 17 Balao and Gato class submarines were built there during the war.

Notables were the Wahoo, Silverside and Tang.

Interesting project!Was the launch botched or was that just the way subs were launched at that ship yard?

That's the way they were launched at that shipyard. If you  Google "Gato class submarine launching" you will see several almost identical launching images of different "fresh water" subs.

IIRC, they didn't have enough water to launch stern first (normal) without running the stern into the other side of the river bank.  Probably not the depth to do it either.

Side launching is/was the preferred method in most Great Lakes shipyards located on rivers.  ManShipCo was located on a bend in the river.

Here's a picture of ManShipCo from 1943.  The view is looking to the west.  Downriver to Lake Michigan is to the left.

Looks like they built to Electric Boat specs rather than Navy Yard build specs.  Navy yard builds had limber holes full length and EB boats were only about a third of the length.  This according to Squadron's Gato booklet.

The '44 I have has full length limbers, might check before you nail down the deck (if I'm not too late).

Nice, saved a lot of work, not that many outside of here would have noticed, but the judges in SLC might have.  Are you planning on a framed photo of what you have here for a guide pic to go with her on the table?  Or is that allowed?

I'm from Manitowoc so I'll be watching this with great interest!

bluewavecaptain

I'm from Manitowoc so I'll be watching this with great interest!

That is cool Bulewave.

I started on the base tonight.
First I cut the base to fit the kit, then I drew the outline of the boat. I then carved out the area and vacuumed the area.

I then applied medium acrylic gel to the entire base.

Wetted printer was then applied to the entire surface and another coat of gel was applied and stippled using a brush. The paper serves to cover the Styrofoam texture and help add to the water texture.

Once dry, I will sand the base to remove the peaks and reapply and stipple the gel. After a second sanding, this should result in small ripples that would have been present in the river.

goldhammer

Nice, saved a lot of work, not that many outside of here would have noticed, but the judges in SLC might have.  Are you planning on a framed photo of what you have here for a guide pic to go with her on the table?  Or is that allowed?

 

GH

I will probably be showing it in the Diorama and Vignettes class so the judges may not care if all the goodies are attached. I hope to have the USS Johnston at Leyte Gulf and the USS Prinz Eugen at Bikini Island completed for the ship class.

As far as an accompanying picture, that’s a good idea. This will be my first contest so I will ask.

ManShipCo was guided by Electric Boat, and there were some EB people helping ManShipCo.  I was told by one of the COBIA volunteers last year at SubFest, that Manitowoc boats had wood decking over a longer section of the hull than the other companies boats. 

Bob I’m curious,

I can’t tell form the pictures but do you know if the boats launched were already painted in MS9 (all black with Dark Grey 5-D horizontal surfaces) or possibly MS10 (Ocean Grey 5-O above the waterline), or were they primed with natural wood decks and painted later in New Orleans?

Navsource has some interesting pictures.  They show this water color print by artist Tom Denton - lloks like Measure 9, overall Black scheme.

I wonder how much of that color variation is due to splash from water during the launch (depending on when the photo was taken).  I would assume that most of the hull would be painted while still on the ways and she was dry and accessible.  On the other hand, all of those pics of various boats show a big variance of colors in places, even boat to boat.

Great idea, Steve!!  Absolutely stoked to see your idea being put into an actual diorama.  I will be following your efforts as I have a great affection for American World War II submarines.  My grandfather was a motor mac and eventually left the Navy after 28 years of service.  He was a plank owner on the USS Jack, SS-259, a Groton built Gato.  So, your project really got me excited to see an American WWII sub being built.  (Can't believe how close those folks are to those flying support beams in the pictures!!!  Obviously, there wasn't much risk assessment being done at the time!! LOL

Dave

Thanks Dave, 

Whenever I come up a new nutty idea I'm always fascinated with with the research I and others come up.

This hobby has taught me more about history than I would ever learn with a history degree. 

M-C, thanks for this step by step process that you are presenting. This is something that I want to learn and I appreciate anything that you are willing to share. This is a very cool project.

Steve

Thanks Bakster, jump aboard and well learn together.

Nice on the picture at the show.  Seeing what you do, that will go along way toward providing context on the dio, and should help secure some of the goodies awarded.

Nice job so far on the base and boat both.  Don't put in the rusted out corroded metal on the plane mechanism though.......

Looking very nice, that works for me.

Thanks GH,

My hope is that the gel will dry clear enough where one can see the color but it's not on the surface. Most of it will be covered with cotton, but the hint will be there.

I also grabbed a few parts from the spares box and am constructing the bow plane mechanism. Next will be installing the deck cross members.

Steve,

I am in awe on how quick and awesome this build is coming alone. I believe there is a first place plaque coming your way at the SL contest. I have taken snap shots of your instructions so far so that I can follow your steps in the water area of the dio. Absolutely a wonderful job friend. 

On the medium stuff it wanted to dry kind of cloudy on me in a thicker coat, something around an 1/8 of an inch thick. But the temp varied in the shop from 50 to 70 degrees.

modelcrazy

I started the deck cross members. I used .02” strips. Below is the bow plane mechanism.

 

Are you building this "scratch" deckless becasue they luanched with no deck or?

Hokey

Are you building this "scratch" deckless becasue they luanched with no deck or?

Yes, every pic I see of the Wisconsin launchings were deckless, which adds a whole lot more work for me.

LOL oh ya I see that now! Didn't notice in earlier posts. You need the work I'm sure!

MC, your model is looking excellent!  Thanks for the update... Keep them coming.

Ooooooooooooooooooo..looks good. 

Thanks GH,

I need to "groom" the cotton into something that looks more like spray, then AB some varnish to stiffen it. After that I will apply some more as needed. Making the cotton look like spray and not cotton is the tough part everything up till now is easy.

This build sure has a lot of "Wow Factor" being built into it (as usual). 

Jim  

Looking good MC.  I am taking notes.

Steve - 

I know you have put a lot of time and work into the sub deck...man it is looking so awesome! I know you are going to nail the "wave" when you apply the acrylic spray. Very impressive friend...as always!

Very nice work, looks like everything is shaping up just as you expected.

Nice work on the wave so far.  Learning from one of the best here.

goldhammer

Learning from one of the best here.

that is starting to look so cool , there's a bunch of us steve's on this site ,lol.

steve5

Steve,

Wow buddy, that is looking great. You nailed the huge splash wave, and the dock is coming along nicely. I am impressed with how you created the vessel flags. Well thoughtout and detailed build my friend! 

MC, this is looking very very cool. I get a real sence of motion with what you have done.  I think you are nailing it.

Looking great, lot accomplished over the w/e.  Now to just find time to nap a little.

Might check with the local "dollar store" or something along those lines in the party section.  They might have some napkins or other stuff with red/white/blue striping that could be used. Either from last year or getting ready for Memorial Day and the 4th.

Steve,

This dio is turning out very well! Great job!

Nice job on the bunting.  Was going to say they need the blue as well, then a closer look and behold......blue tucked away in them.

I just need to dull them up some. The only red white and bule paint I have is gloss.

Looking great Steve!  Have never seen one looking like that at a show.  The "WOW Factor" continues.

Jim  

It should be a unique entry for sure. 

Hoo Boy !

I was gonna suggest something for the water .You did it without my input YAY ! T.B.

Just.....wow.

Just because it should be used to show comparison again:

Hats off to you.

To repeat what others have said…….  This is HOT! and of course, Cool too.

MC.

 Gotta tell you .This is all wet ! ! LOL.LOL.LOL. Nice job my friend .  T.B.

Great Job on her!!

That is great, nice job, he says looking at his 1/72 Gato submarine

MC, that is looking awesome. Way to go.

OUTSTANDING work Steve!!!  

I'd love to be at the show you take it to and see the looks on the judges faces. On the other hand, glad I won't be there getting my butt kicked.

Jim  

This project just gets better and better everytime I check in on it. The wave came out great.  This is one of those projects that makes me want to push what I can do.

Thanks for sharing

Robert

Man, you nailed it.

Steve,

Check here at Shapeways: Here

Look like they may have something that will meet your needs.

Hope this helps.

Yeah, I was looking at those for 1/350 figures for the Johnston and Eugen. I found some guys that look perfect, just maybe not the right pose, but I  may be able to work with them. I'll put up a link as soon as I get back to the computer.

Here they are from Hobbylinc.

http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/lbl/lbl7502.htm

http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/lbl/lbl7501.htm

They look perfect, but it shows only one guy and says there are 2 in the pack. I don't know if both of these guys are in one pack of if there are 2 similar per pack.

Although I'm not paying over $8 shipping for a $7 item.

man I love what you are doing here , can't wait to see more progress

I'm not into subs really, but been following this thread closely just because of the awesome job you're doing. People who make dioramas never cease to amaze me, the amount of creativity required to successfully miniaturize real world objects and effects is huge...

Always amazed at your works. They look real!

this just gets better and better

Good-er and good-er.

The figures make the dio. look top drawer

words are superfluous

that's one of the best diorama's I have seen . you should be very proud

Good day Steve,

Fantastic job!!! very realistic... could feel this movement  and moment of she became real seagoing ship!!!( sub... :))

Looks Great , like it !!!

All the Best!

Kirill

I just discovered this thread and wow Steve, you can really model water to a perfection.. Amazing scratch work on the boat too.

It looks like an actual picture of the real thing captured in time. Awesome job ! A show winner for sure.

Steve, that is one heck of a piece, you really have captured the essence of this ship's launching.

My only crit is a minor technical one.  The width of the stripes  on the bunting looks uneven in some areas (wouldn't the colours be of the same spacing?).  Though you might have done this on purpose to convey the effect of draping and folds.  All in all though, this is just a wonderful job you have presented here.

regards,

Jack

Amazing!

M-C, I have nothing to add other than you did a spectacular job. Well done sir. Thanks for sharing this build with us!

Extremely nice......if you don't walk away with a ribbon, there is absolutely no justice.

I'd take the first "real" pic and frame it to go with the dio in the show, and place it so the judges get the same perspective lookig at both.

MAGNIFICENT Steve!  I will really be surprised if you don't walk out with "Best of Show". Congrats on a job very well done.

Jim  

Hello!

Your dio is beautiful, I like it a lot!

Thanks for sharing and good luck with your next projects! Have a nice day

Paweł

Interesting diorama. Never seen one like this before.

  Happy modeling    Crackers 

Thanks guys, I am glad you like it. 

Jack,

I see what you mean. It looks far more pronounced in the picture than in real life for some reason. I went over those stripes several times to try to get them even. I'll have to touch them up, easy to do. Thanks for pointing that out. 

WOW! I too just found this thread, and that is beautiful! I've only recently read about using cotton for spray, and it looks like you've got it just right. I stand in awe of your work with scale water. And the rest is fantastic too!

Very dynamic diorama. A real treat following this thread to its conclusion. I think you've done a superlative job of a subject that I am sure is rarely if ever attempted - a launch.

Mike

The final build is just fantastic!

Robert

That belongs in the readers gallery both here and in the mag, if not a story on the build and water effects.

Thanks again guys, I enjoy unusual subjects.

GH,

I sent it to the reader's gallery. I've had builds in the online gallery before, but can take a few months to get there assuming they pick it.

It certainly deserves to be published anywhere possible. This is an outstanding model - a rare combination of aesthetics and accuracy. I've never seen anything quite like it.

Oh !

 Oh, my goodness ! You moved a lot of water that way .What an awesome dio .Luv It ! T.B.

WOW, you just knocked another one outta the park Steve! 

Awesome work!  But is it me, or does anyone else think those line handlers are nuts for hanging on to the rope while that boat is launched?!? 

Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas

I am insanely jealous of your water effects MC, love it!

Thank you guys for the very kind comments and for following/looking in .

Jester,

It just looks difficult. If you follow my or Chris Flodberg's method (mine method is his with my own changes) you would find it's pretty easy, time consuming, but easy.

Hello Friend,

I am sorry for the slow response. But you absolutely crashed this one out of the park!! What an amazing diorama, outstanding detail and craftmanship 

Great job Steve, especially on taking the time to publish and explain the steps you do to make the wave and try to replicate the details off a photograph.  That is not easy to do.

Just saw the Puffer launch on Facebook in the Undersea Warfare Group! Proud to have seen you build earlier and I posted the link to the photos.

Oh my! Wow, I had no idea it got around!

That is one superb Dio. Beautifully done kind Sir.....Cheers Mark