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HMS Victory by Airfix vs Revell HMS Victory

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  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Tulsa, OK
HMS Victory by Airfix vs Revell HMS Victory
Posted by AV8R1992 on Thursday, April 14, 2016 9:30 AM
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, April 14, 2016 2:12 PM

Well, I can try to answer that - with the big caveat that I haven't actually examined either kit in at least 35 years. But I built both of them several times, and my old memory is fairly about stuff like that. (Don't bother asking me about something that happened the day before yesterday.)

The Revell kit is a little older and quite a bit smaller. The latter is an important factor when it comes to rigging. Revell's upper spars are really, really skinny; it's tough to rig them without pulling them out of alignment. It has a great deal of molded detail - including wood grain, which some people like and some people hate. The planking seams on the hull are countersunk - including the 5-sided "anchor stock" planks on the wales. (None of the wood kits - even the big, excellent one from Jotika - shows that detail.) The guns on the upper deck (the first one down from the weather decks) have individual barrels; their carriages are molded in with the deck. (The only way to see them is to look carefully under the gangways. Most of the gunports on the lower and middle decks are molded shut. A handful of them, amidships, are open; the guns themselves are individual parts with integrally-molded carriages that sit on little shelves molded in with the hull halves.

The Airfix kit is a little newer and significantly bigger. That makes for sturdier spars. All of its gunports are molded open, with separate lids. The guns in the waist on the upper deck (between the quarterdeck and the forecastle) have individual barrels and carriages - but only in the waist area. Fore and aft of that area there are no gun carriages.

The guns on the middle and lower decks, and the upper deck toward the bow and stern, are "dummies" - stub barrels glued into holes in shallow, depressed squares where the gunports go. Personally, I don't like that feature. If I were building the kit again (heaven forbid), I'd probably glue all the portlids shut. (That's a perfectly valid way to represent a ship of the line. Longridge's famous model, the subject of his book, The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships, is built that way.)

To my eye there's something not quite right about the Airfix kit's bow. The knee of the head doesn't stick up high enough, with the result that the gap between the figurehead is too big. I'm not quite sure where the problem is, but to my eye it's pretty prominent. Other Forum members haven't thought so.

The molding of the intricate system of bow rails is better in the Airfix kit. The Airfix version also scores in having separate bulkheads under the break of the poop deck. (The Revell one is "cleared for action," with those bulkheads missing.) The Airfix one has nicely done stanchions supporting the beams in the waist; the Revell one doesn't.

The detailing of the carvings on the bow and stern are good on both kits - though the glass in the windows is represented by solid plastic. Since the Airfix one is on a slightly larger scale, the carvings on the stern are a little bigger (and easier to paint). And Airfix's figurehead is beautiful.

Both kits have "copper sheathing" that looks pretty reasonable for the scale. The Airfix version doesn't have "wood grain." Most of the hull planks have countersunk edges, but the edges of the "anchor stock" planks on the wales are represented by raised lines. Kind of odd-looking.

Both kits were originally released with plastic-coated thread "shrouds and ratlines," which I think were utterly awful. Recent issues of the Revell version use injection-molded plastic parts that are even worse. The Airfix kit now comes with a "rigging loom," which frankly I regard as silly. If I were building either kit I'd rig my own shrouds and ratlines.

Either of these kits can be turned into a good, serious scale model.

That's about the extent of my memory. Hope it helps at least a little.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, April 14, 2016 3:26 PM

I also remember it that way. I'd probably choose the Airfix one, only because for $ 10.00 more it's easier to rig and paint and looks more imposing.

And as Dr. T noted, there are ways to get around the lower gun deck thing.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Posted by crackers on Thursday, April 14, 2016 6:37 PM


I have a Heller plastic kit of the HMS VICTORY at 1/100 scale, that has never been opened. How does this kit stack up beside the Airfix and the Revell kit ?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Happy modeling      Crackers   Smile

 

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Tulsa, OK
Posted by AV8R1992 on Thursday, April 14, 2016 6:46 PM

Jtilley, thank you for the post! I read on a review that the revell Victory figurehead was lacking. it wasn't detailed enough was actually 2d. Whereas the Airfix Victory has a stunning figurehead! But with the airfix model, you said that cannons were dummy cannons? So I can still model it with doors open but the inside is exposed so I could see through the other gunports? Im leaning more towards the Airfix model personally, from the pictures I've seen I really like it. but who knows, I'll probably end up getting both! 

Crackers, I believe that Heller HMS Victory is far surperior...and a lot bigger! But I noticed you said you had it and it was unopened....I'll be happy to take it off of your hands! Wink

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, April 14, 2016 7:02 PM

crackers


I have a Heller plastic kit of the HMS VICTORY at 1/100 scale, that has never been opened. How does this kit stack up beside the Airfix and the Revell kit ?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Happy modeling      Crackers   Smile

 

There is no comparison. That big one is maybe the nicest plastic model ever made, certainly among the very best plastic ship models. Hang onto it. The only downer is the Heller instructions. But Imai reboxed and sold it for a while, and they printed a readable and well printed glossy color set. I have those...Ngngngn!

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, April 14, 2016 7:08 PM

The Airfix model gunport openings are closed. Don't misunderstand, the lid is separate and gets attached open. But the port itself has a solid infill set back from the side of the ship a fraction of an inch. There's a hole in the middle; the cannon barrels are short little stubs that you glue into the hole (there's a peg on the inside end of the little barrel).

This is very typical of old Airfix kits. It doesn't really look too bad if you paint it flat black.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, April 14, 2016 9:21 PM

GM's right about the Airfix gunports. The use of "dummy guns" has a long tradition in ship modeling. Some companies still handle the problem that way. Model Shipways' Constitution ($700) and Jotika's Victory (over $1,000) have dummy guns on their covered decks. As Airfix continued releasing sailing warships, the recesses in the gunports got deeper. Those of the Wasa kit look pretty good by comparison.

i'll stick my neck out and say I think the Heller 1/100 Victory is the most accurate Victory kit on the market - plastic, wood, or otherwise. It has its weaknesses (the biggest, perhaps, being the lack of parrels or any other means of attaching the yards to the masts). But the basis of a really impressive model is certainly there.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Thursday, April 14, 2016 10:23 PM

gmorrison , would it be asking too much for a copy of those Imai instructions .Confused

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, April 15, 2016 12:06 AM

Oh, no problem. Send me a PM with your email address and I'll get them off to you.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, April 15, 2016 12:11 AM

jtilley

i'll stick my neck out and say I think the Heller 1/100 Victory is the most accurate Victory kit on the market - plastic, wood, or otherwise. It has its weaknesses (the biggest, perhaps, being the lack of parrels or any other means of attaching the yards to the masts).

 

Which as a crit ranks up there with the fact that the strings on a Martin guitar require replacement from time to time.

In all, simple enough to tackle.

At the risk of repeating myself...

Pete Coleman

My Vickie is there under build diaries/ Bill's Victory.

Unfortunately stalled at the gun deck level, yes a little jaded, also just too busy.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, April 15, 2016 1:11 AM

Several drams of whiskey, to be fair, but here's a last thought for the night.

The little Revell 1/196 Constitution was one of the first sailing ship models I ever got right.

Back then the "ratline problem" was managed with the slighty horrible "thread dipped in pastic" solutions, but it worked ok at that scale.

I built at least a half dozen of the things, all English frigates; during a time when I was reading Hornblower.

Caligula

Agememnon

Hotspur

Cromwell

Nelson

etc.

Made them all up, but they all had Nelson yellow beelines.

The Victory was sort of the case of Dr. Pepper, the Birthday wish.

That is a really nice model. It cannot be discounted, in fact may be a Plastic Ship 201 course.

It bugged me that the lower gun deck was occasional, but in fact it was areal test of skills.

I would go:

Revell

Airfix

Heller

And really never ever cross over to the HECEPOB.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    February 2011
Posted by cerberusjf on Friday, April 15, 2016 4:42 AM

I think both kits have strengths and weaknesses. 

I think the strengths of the Revell kit is that the head rails (IMHO) are much better and it has better "planking" on the sides.  The drawbacks -for me- were the molded-on piles of rope on deck, the carving on the stern was quite flat comared to Airfix and looked difficult to paint well and the figurehead was a flat shield rather than a 3d.  I had intended making the kit with all gunports closed, but IIRC it looked to be a bit of a pain to get them ll to match well.  The transom is not correct, it has an X shape whenit should be like = , very odd.  I think things like ladders were cruder on the Revell kit.  Having said that, I saw a beautifully built model from this kit on this site, so it can be a basis for an outstanding model

Advantages of the Airfix kit are that it's bigger and easier to work on, you can model the gunports as you like.  I think the decoration is more 3d, so looks better and esier to paint.  Disadvantages are that the head rails are (IMHO) ugly and not realistic, the port doors at the front of the middle deck do not align port/starboard (the sick bay ports), the hull planking is depicted as rather crude tramlines.  There is was a book called

HMS VICTORY. Classic Ships: Their History and How to Model Them No. 1

dedicated to making a better model from this kit, but is rare now and can be quite expensive for all it is.  In fact, it may be cheaper to buy the 1/100 model by Heller/Airfix.

Another advantage the Airfix kit has is that there are aftermarket parts available for i, such as photoetch hammock netting, windows, stern lettering (missing on the kit) shrouds etc if you want to go that route.

http://www.scalewarship.com/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=196_197

 

But better than either is the 1/100 kit from Heller/Airfix.  I had it but got rid of it recently due to ill-health.

  • Member since
    January 2015
Posted by rdiaz on Friday, April 15, 2016 5:38 AM

I haven't built the Airfix one, but IMHO the Revell Victory is an amazing little kit. I had a lot of fun building it and it was very unfortunate that the model was lost, but I will build it again without a doubt. The way it's put together allows for much more detailed rigging than you would expect, if you have the patience, and the moulded detail is incredible for such a small scale. The figurehead can be fixed - I made little cuts behind the cherubs and managed to bend them. Not 100% perfect but much better than leaving it flat.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, April 16, 2016 3:17 AM

I agree with Roberto: the old Revell Victory is an amazing kit - particularly in view of the fact that it's now almost 60 years old. The people responsible for designing Revell's sailing ships in those days surely were among the very most talented artisans in the industry.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Saturday, April 16, 2016 9:11 PM

I have built both the Revell and the Airfix versions and both have their advantages and disadvantages.  For example, I dislike the gunport lids being molded shut on the Revell kit, but I would wish that Airfix had the lower gun decks and full cannons instead of the dummies. As John pointed out, the bow doesn't seem quite right on the Airfix version.  I believe that the wood grain on the Revell kit is out of scale and wouldn't be seen at that scale.  I also believe that both kits are deficient in having the entry port and in not having raised bulwarks on the forecastle. But, we have discussed this point elsewhere.  I have wondered about the progress on GM's Heller 1/100 Victory; he was building it with the raised bulwarks (and doing so beautifully!).

I would like to introduce a third alternative for kits of the Victory smaller than 1/100; Bandai once manufactured a kit for Entex in 1/230 scale. Like the Revell kit, most gunport lids were molded shut. However, some were molded open with the cannon barrels also molded as projections from the hull. The open lids were far too thick, but the kit otherwise resembled that from Revell. The copper plates below the waterline came prepainted much like the larger Revell ships.

Molding was crisp, each plank had wood grain detail, and the shroud and ratlines were the solid plastic type.

I suppose that I would pick the Airfix kit as my preference if I had to choose. But, I like each.

Bill

P.S.  Roberto, I was most impressed by your model of the Victory of several years ago! I have never seen a better job!

 

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