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Even at the IPMS Convention are Ship Builders really Respected?

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  • Member since
    September, 2013
  • From: San Antonio, Texas
Even at the IPMS Convention are Ship Builders really Respected?
Posted by Marcus McBean on Sunday, July 30, 2017 8:28 AM

I just got back from my first IMPS National convention in Omaha Nebaska and I really had a great time but I was really bothered by how the door prizes system was setup.  After you purchased your tickets you could put them in the box for a chance at "Armor, Aircraft or Misc."  The ships were grouped with figures, Sci-fi, tools, books and what-ever.  The two local shows I go to each year manages to have drawings just for ship related items.  At the convention there were a lot more other items mixed with the ships and I did manage to win Grandpa from the Munster show, but I would have liked my tickets to go to fully ships.  The armor and aircraft group gotten a chance to win just those items why couldn't I with ships?  I am not knocking sci-fi, and the other builds, but I like ships and if they have the respect for that class of build then they should have treated us equally as they should with Sci-fi and anyone I left out. 

Just my two cents worth of rant.

 

Marcus

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Sunday, July 30, 2017 10:57 AM

Number One -- the model voted most popular by the attendees was the USS Patoka & Los Angeles airship.   As one of the head judges I am aware of the process for the determination of the best in show.  I will just say that the Patoka equated itself well in the voting.   Aircraft or armor didn't win best in show,  it was the bulldozer.

 

Number Two -- Several years a go there was a survey of all modelers.  Not just the people who hang out at places like this or other model forums.   Joe Modeler who buys from WalMart or Hobby Lobby.   The number one most popular genre is automotive, then airplanes, tanks.  Somewhere down about 5% is ships.  Space is lower.  Numbers change as do various items.  Space may be more popular when StarWars is popular.  Ships may get a boost with Pearl Harbor because the girlfriend/other likes Ben Affleck.  How many ship centric vendors were there compared to other genre's?   Vendors donate raffle prizes.  What is the makeup of the host club?  Omaha is SAC country, lots of aircraft interest here.

Ships were well represented here with about 200 models on the tables,  plus others in Diorama and Miscellaneous.   I am pleased with the convention

 

Ed Grune

IPMS USA Head ship Judge

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Sunday, July 30, 2017 11:11 AM

I think one of the problems with now number of builders is perception (I think correct) that ships are about the hardest genre to build.  I build all genres, and I know I spend time building a ship model than any other genre.

I belong to three modeling clubs, and the fellow modelers all respect ship models- there is no disrespect.  But most say they are too hard to build and take too much time.  But those of us who do build the ships do get lots of positive comments on our work.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    September, 2013
  • From: San Antonio, Texas
Posted by Marcus McBean on Sunday, July 30, 2017 11:37 AM

Sorry Ed but you miss the point.  I was talking about the how door prizes works and how it is clearly wasn't equal to get a chance to win the venue you prefer unless you like armor or aircraft.  I didn't mention anything about judging or a number of ships on display.  And as for ships being represented has to do more with modelers bringing in those ships than IPMS.  Which IPMS should be gratful for such a great turn out. As with your statement of ships were well represented than why was ships grouped in with Sci-Fi, tools and miscellanous??  I wondered if IPMS would had gotten away with it if they did that with armor or aircraft.  How about next year, you just put all the tickets in one box and let everyone get what comes. That would have been a fairer system then the one I just observed. Even if there were only few ships we should have had the same chance win as the other venues and not just what comes along.

I am not writing this because I didn't win anything, but because I observed something that I felt was wrong and as a ship modeler made me feel second class to the other venues.  I wonder how the Sci-Fi modeler felt when he won a ship, tool or booket.

Marcus

 

 

  • Member since
    September, 2013
  • From: San Antonio, Texas
Posted by Marcus McBean on Sunday, July 30, 2017 11:48 AM

Don,

I agree with you on those points and I experience the same with shows and the local clubs and IPMS did just that during the judging at the convention.  How they set up their doorprize system was wrong and I felt as a ship modeler (I can't speak for the Sci-Fi modeler) we were not treated fairly. 

I believe IPMS needs to review this for next year show.

Marcus

  • Member since
    February, 2003
  • From: Bucks county, PA
Posted by Bucksco on Sunday, July 30, 2017 11:55 AM

Start painting figures - then you will be truely invisible...Wink

  • Member since
    September, 2013
  • From: San Antonio, Texas
Posted by Marcus McBean on Sunday, July 30, 2017 4:25 PM

Bucksco,

LOL!

  • Member since
    August, 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Sunday, July 30, 2017 4:38 PM

MM - I have never entered in any competition, let alone Nats.....but I would agree with you in that all major catagories should have raffle prizes for that specific genre.  Then it up to the person holding the tickets to decide where to drop them.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, July 30, 2017 5:46 PM

Maybe you should change the title to include the word raffle. Your main point of contention, justifiably, is how the raffle was run. I agree that there should be a breakdown of the raffle categories beyond aircraft, armor, and everything else. While I love real space, sci fi is hit or miss with me, as are ships. And I would give a pass on cars. But if I saw a certain kit in that I really wanted in that catch all category, I'd drop my tickets there in hopes of winning. And if I did come up with something that I would not build... for sale or trade...

your critique point of the raffle is certainly valid. And easily corrected by any future hosting IPMS chapter.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September, 2013
  • From: San Antonio, Texas
Posted by Marcus McBean on Sunday, July 30, 2017 7:19 PM

Stikpusher,

I though of changing the title but I didn't as the title represents how I felt after seeing how the raffle was set up.

I am kind of guy that believes in what is good for the goose is good for the gander.  If my venue has to dumped into a pool of various models than every entry should be too.  Then we all have an equal chance of wining armor, aircraft, ships, sci-fi, figures, tools, etc..

Marcus

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, July 30, 2017 8:25 PM

Well, they did have ship categories in the contest, right? I know the IPMS USA, the main organization supports and respects ship modelers. Kit for kit, it has to be the most involved modeling genre. I don't think there is any question that IPMS USA respects and support ship modelers. 

But how they were marginalized in the raffle (but not the competition) by the host chapter is certainly a separate issue. A free for all raffle would be a reasonable alternative. Or some variation of that. But again, that is something for the hosting chapters of future Nationals to deal with. 

And if you are an IPMS USA member, perhaps you should direct your critique to that organization. They cannot address the issue if they are not made aware of the issue.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, July 30, 2017 9:27 PM

Kind of strikes me that "ships" in IP(plastic) MS is kind of like "flying models" in a woodcraft society show.

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, July 31, 2017 7:28 AM

Just seems odd, at our show we always split the raffle into:

Aircraft, armour, auto, ships, figures, SF/fantasy, tools/books/misc.

Plus a 'mega' catagory for big expensive kits (generally a hundred bucks plus). We normally have only somewhere between five and ten of these. 

 

As you can figure the first three have the most items and the most tickets sold. 

"Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children that dragons can be killed." -G.K. Chesterton

 

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Monday, July 31, 2017 8:42 AM

Hmmm;

 I read this yesterday July30 , and decided to think about it before answering .

    Some years ago I went to an I.P.M.S. show and worked as a judge . I renewed my membership then  , but , let it lapse again .The raffle they had then , was pretty all inclusive in all categories .

     Now that is how I wound up with My  " Dicker Max " self propelled gun . By the time my number was called all the ship stuff was gone .Oh well , I accepted an Armor kit .The  " Dicker Max " Was my gift for renewal in I.P.M.S. , So I took a German Staff Car as my raffle prize .

    I have always thought everything was fairly even handed . You must be aware though that the VENDORS are the ones tasked with filling out that part of the show events . I think they did it based on what they knew would be recieved graciously . After all they want our business between shows too .

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Monday, July 31, 2017 8:53 AM

GMorrison

Kind of strikes me that "ships" in IP(plastic) MS is kind of like "flying models" in awoodcraft society show.

 

I have heard of many attempts over the years to change the name of the society, but the die-hards always win out.  I hesitated for several years to join the society because I objected to the name.

I still find even in local area folks who believe in the sacred nature of plastic, and the belief that the kit itself is sacred, and aftermarket is the work of the devil.  They discount scratchbuilding and aftermarket.  The idea, they say, is to start with a good kit, and then do the best possible job building it OOB.  Now, I have no objections to OOB categories in contests.  I occasionally build OOB just to sharpen my basic skills.  But I believe that this attitude, just like the sacredness of some scales, is a small group trying to impose their own preferences on a larger group.

Because frequently smaller local contests have a hard time finding enough volunteers for judging, I cringe when I know one of those plastic die-hards gets on a judging panel!

On the other hand, I kind of objected when judging at Manitowac used to consider a scratch built model required virtually everything, including common fittings, had to be scratch built.

Also giggled at how the wood worshippers, who claimed wood was best because that's what real ships are made from, were just gaga over a wood kit of the Titanic!

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Monday, July 31, 2017 9:08 AM

Don ;

    I kind of feel the same way . I have always felt that name or aim should be changed to include ALL forms of modeling . Shoot , Even the Golden Gate Model Yacht club allowed ships and boats that were plastic . Believe me our vessels were mostly made from just about anything .

 I had both Wood , Wood and Fibreglass , and All plastic R.C. Vessels , even some of the venerable REVELL kits ! To single out one material is to leave out many modelers of Aircraft , Ships and yes , Even Armor and Cars that are Built out of other materials .

 Now that said , What is wrong with the name International Modelers Society ? That is all inclusive . I believe the name I.P.M.S is now outdated . After All , it came about when plastic was becoming popular because there was no venue for competitions or shows for anything in plastic , Except the Hobby Shop sponsored shows and contests .

     Enter the I.P.M.S. from the Continent . Good idea but one that needs to cover All materials used in modeling . Not just plastic enhanced by After-Market and Partially Scratchbuilt but everything in All categories .

      The " Goody " raffles could then reflect everything . In our Train Shows the raffles include not ONLY Rail related items , but just about everything in modeling you can think of !

  

  • Member since
    March, 2005
  • From: West Virginia, USA
Posted by mfsob on Friday, August 04, 2017 7:52 AM

I've never been to an IPMS convention, although if the planets and finances align, maybe someday.

The one local contest I have attended irregularly over the years always starts out with a ship category, and the most it ever had it in when I attended was, I think, 5. Maybe 6. While every show has been overwhelmingly car models, I can't say I ever felt disprespected as a modeler (the best of show trophy bears that out; the judges were amazed at 1/700 people). However, neither does it have a category-specific raffle. It's more of a "pays your money and takes your chances" kind of thing.

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Monday, August 07, 2017 8:31 AM

Personally, I would be grateful for an IPMS in my neck of the woods. I tried to start a club with that goal in mind about 25 years ago, but nobody joined.  Perhaps I will try again after I retire from teaching.

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Monday, August 07, 2017 12:33 PM

Hi;

 I have found , in the past , that starting a club isn't easy . First , you have to get a fair sized group of like minded people . Then over numerous soft drinks , coffee and pie , you build a consensus . Then you elect officers , form your club by - laws and go for it .

It helps if you can get a " Hobby - Shop " to be a sponsor .The thing about that is this . Hobby - Lobby and Hobby - Town would NOT be good sponsor candidates . I have had better luck with Mom and Pop shops .

  

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Monday, August 07, 2017 12:48 PM

Hey " G "

 I took a tug to a juried Wood Carving  Show in Mission , Texas . It and all about it .( interior details and yes , even rigging ) was made from Carved wood and wood products .

   Sitting next to it was a full model Hunter Sport fishing boat . All parts also hand carved . And next to that An EMD RailRoad diesel Engine .All parts hand carved and pressure fitted together .

 All the models were press fit , Not Glued ! I got first in novelty -novice ( for wood carvings of multiple parts .) I also copped first in class , for a very LifeLike version of " Nemo " ( Actually just a clownfish ) looking for lunch .

 The Sea GrassWas skived strips of white oak , tinted green and real rocks . All natural items allowed . All wins were  novice  class .Why ? Different stuff than they were used to . My first wood carvings -Period ! The reason I did these things  ? I saw some of what was going to the show and figured if press fit wood models of horses and coaches were allowed , that would mean my stuff would be allowed .It was !

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Monday, August 07, 2017 3:32 PM

TB,

Thanks!  I have a LHS that could help.

Bill

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 9:53 AM

Bill;

 Then what you have to do is the real job . Convince the shop owner or owners that supporting a club would be good for business . If they have enough room maybe a small room to have meetings in and some time each month for a show and contest

 Remember while there , folks will buy stuff . At least that is what is hoped .That way the club is also supporting their sponsor . This is always the tricky part .

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