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How good are they?

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  • Member since
    October, 2004
  • From: Orlando, Florida
How good are they?
Posted by ikar01 on Monday, August 07, 2017 7:36 PM

I have a friend hwo asked me how good the rumpeter Scharnhorst is and as long as I'm at it, how good it the Academy Bismark?

I need to build a German, Italian, and French battleship for my son to add to the collectionhe's starting withg the Musashi that I built him.  He's not a builder, not with his three kids ot occupy his time.  For that matter, what axis battleships are out there?

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Monday, August 07, 2017 9:12 PM

What Scale ?

  • Member since
    September, 2010
Posted by potchip on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 12:23 AM

I will assume you mean the very cheap, Early Trumpeter (notice the different logo?) Scharnhorst kit which was a motorisable knock off of a Japanese company's 70's effort.  It's terrible, as in beyond lindberg level of terrible.

Academy Bismarck is a knock off of the Tamiya 1/350 kit, so the ceiling isn't very high either. 

I'm speaking purely from a builder's perspective, ignore accuracy/scale issues you need to look at kits that costs > $50 to get decent level of quality for 1/350ish scale.

 

  • Member since
    October, 2004
  • From: Orlando, Florida
Posted by ikar01 on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 7:33 PM

Thanks, the scale is 350th, I should have mentioned it at the beginning. 

I  can see this isn't going to be as easy as I thought.  I'm not sure if my friend has already bought the Scharnhorst or not but I have the feeling he might want me to buiold it for him.  I have never bought any Trumpeter kits before so I  wasn't sure about them.  Besides the companies menioned, are there any other kits worth mentioning that go for a decent price?

One other thing I just remembered.  I was given some barels and P.E for a 1/700th Bismark, so I might as well start looking for one.  I take it it will be either Hasegawa or Fujimi?

  • Member since
    July, 2012
  • From: Douglas AZ
Posted by littletimmy on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 7:53 PM

ikar01
how good it the Academy Bismark?

I have the Acadamy 1/350 Tripitz but I havent done anything to it but look through the box so I couldnt tell you if its a winner or junk. The only difference between the Acadamy Bismark and Tripitz is the Tripitz has more anti-aircraft guns.  The price was well within my budget. I believe it was less than $50. Not a lot of detail so I'm definatly going to be getting some after-market P.E.

                      Dont worry about the thumbprint... paint it rust and call it "Battle damage" !

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 11:21 PM

ikar01
One other thing I just remembered. I was given some barels and P.E for a 1/700th Bismark, so I might as well start looking for one. I take it it will be either Hasegawa or Fujimi?

Dragon, Trumpeter or Revell. All are fairly recent and are all pretty decent kits. I can't speak for the others but the Dragon kit includes some, but not all of the railings in PE. If you choose Dragon. go for the premium edition boxing, as the standard one has part of the superstructure (command Bridge & stack) moulded in vinyl rather than styrene (new part in the Premium Ed.). The Premium kit also includes PE radar.

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 8:12 AM

If you are building 1/350 kits, the Revell Bismarck and Tirpitz cannot be beat.  Their levels of detail are much higher than those of the Tamiya kits.  However, if you are looking for consistency of detail among the various ships, Tamiya has the most extensive  range of ships.

If you want 1/700 kits, I would rank the Trumpeter Bismarck and Tirpitz the best, followed closely by the Dragon Premium edition, then Revell.  I have never seen the Fujimi kit built, but the reviews were somewhat less than flattering.

Good luck!

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 9:26 AM

Hear ! Hear !!

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 2:23 PM

Also, Trumpeter is the only manufacturer to produce Italian and French battleship kits in 1/350 scale.  The French ships include Richelieu and Dunqurque, the Italian includes Roma and (I believe) Littorio.

Trumpeter also produces the French Richelieu and Jean Bart, as well as all three ships of the Italian Littorio class in 1/700.  Along with the Bismarck and Tirpitz, these ships are very well detailed.

Heller also produces an extensive range of German and French battleships in 1/400, while Tauro produces 1/400 Italian cruisers of the Zara class.

In my previous post, I mistated that Tamiya has the most extensive line of 1/350 ships; Trumpeter has produced far more ships in this scale.

Bill

  • Member since
    October, 2004
  • From: Orlando, Florida
Posted by ikar01 on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 6:39 PM

This is great info, thanks.

Here's another problem.  I have a Missouri and want to put wood deck on it as well as the P.E.  I noticed that it comes in the normal wood but also in blue.  The blue would deffinatley look different but I'm not sure I should.  Would you ?  Then if I did, could the blue be matched for hte rest of hte ship?

As far as the decks and P.E. for the other battleships, are the extra details available, and from who?

sorry to be such a bother.

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 7:46 PM

The deck color depends on the camouflage scheme used.  The blue deck is used for when she was painted in Measure 22; the ship being painted Navy Blue on all vertical surfaces above the waterline while the deck was stained Deck Blue.  I believe  that she reverted to the wood color prior to the surrender ceremonies.  The decks were unstained wood after WWII until her 1980's recommissioning, after which there were metal surfaces in addition  to the wood surfaces.

Bill

Late edit:  The camouflage scheme to which I refer above is Measure 21, in which all vertical surfaces are painted Navy Blue.  GM corrected me by pointing out that ships painted Measure 22 are Navy Blue from the waterline to a horizontal point where the ship's hull begins to flare. Haze Gray is painted on all vertical surfaces above that point.

 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, August 10, 2017 12:53 AM

So her decks were still blue. At least  where the pictures were taken.

In fact they look fresh, no doubt painted for the occasion.

Assuming the replacement decks cover everything wood, the color is close but not an exact match to the deck blue and navy blue elsewhere on the ship. Plus the upper vertical areas are all Haze Gray.

 

  • Member since
    August, 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Thursday, August 10, 2017 2:18 PM

As to Scharnhorst, I just got the book on her and her sister from Squadron.  Granted it is a few years old, but the author said the Dragon 1/350 is the best one out there.  I have the '43 version kit, and have looked it over.  Very clean moldings, good detail, and a lot of PE, but not sure how much more might be needed.  Have not seen the Trumpy version.

He also gives an overview of the kits available, and pics of built up models, along with the various suppliers of AM goodies for all scales.Also gives a history of both ships service lives.

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Thursday, August 10, 2017 2:39 PM

We cannot forget her appearance in the 32/22D scheme as well.  It was a very striking camouflage scheme carried over onto her decks, at least according to some photos.  Others seem to show that her decks were painted over to the deck blue scheme before her transition to Measure 22.

Bill

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Philadelphia Pa
Posted by Nino on Friday, August 11, 2017 7:07 PM

goldhammer

As to Scharnhorst, I just got the book on her and her sister from Squadron.  Granted it is a few years old, but the author said the Dragon 1/350 is the best one out there.  I have the '43 version kit, and have looked it over.  Very clean moldings, good detail, and a lot of PE, but not sure how much more might be needed.  Have not seen the Trumpy version.

He also gives an overview of the kits available, and pics of built up models, along with the various suppliers of AM goodies for all scales.Also gives a history of both ships service lives.

 

 

That Dragon 1/350 Scharnhorst 1943 kit supposedly got reissued in April of this year. At least 1 Hobby Shop I deal with has it.  The 1941 version is a good choice if you want to match it to the early war efforts of Scharnhorst .  There is also a Heller 1/400 Scharnhorst- Great Hull but needs a bit of detailing. And, if you are into DKM heavy cruisers, there is also a very rare Admiral Hipper in 1/400 from Heller, currently for sale for $79.00 at you know where... 

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Friday, August 11, 2017 7:49 PM

If I reemember rightly, all but either three or four of the camo schemes used a blue deck.  Two of those, all black, and green camo, were never used by the Iowas.

Wooden decks were stained, with an opaque stain, that was meant to match the 20B paint for metal surfaces.  But, that match was more by book than by eye, so some difference is appropriate (it's really you only "out" for either the All Sea Blue and All Navy Blue, where that paint was applied to all surfaces other than wooden decks).

Contemporary descriptions call the material both stain and paint; if I remember correctly, the Navy spec was for opaque stain, which would act much like a paint, depending on how it was thinned and applied.  Given the lacksidaisical enthusiasm demonstrated by many memebers of the Deck Department, such accounts, even contemporary ones, occasionally need a grain of salt.

(I was a DivO for Deck before becoming an OppO, in case that matters.)

 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, August 11, 2017 9:07 PM

Up till late 42 the stain was called Norfolk 250-N Deck Stain, after that Flight Deck Stain 21.

A carefully guarded secret.


Seriously, as Cap'n says (that's him watching me mix paint) it's a chance to introduce a slightly different color of Navy Blue into a model. So you get three- Deck Stain, Deck Blue and Navy Blue.

  • Member since
    July, 2012
  • From: Douglas AZ
Posted by littletimmy on Friday, August 11, 2017 9:50 PM

GMorrison

I see that movie from time to time  and cannot for the life of me remember the name. Was'nt James Cagny the captain? The Fulminator mercury sure did a number on the laundry room.

                      Dont worry about the thumbprint... paint it rust and call it "Battle damage" !

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, August 11, 2017 9:56 PM

"Mister Roberts".

Yes he was.

  • Member since
    September, 2013
  • From: San Antonio, Texas
Posted by Marcus McBean on Friday, August 11, 2017 10:57 PM

Finished the Dragon 1943 Scharnhorst last year, it was a really nice kit.  So nice I purchased the 1941 kit and several of their Z destroyers.  The instructions will drive you crazy trying to figure out what part they want you to use or how that assembly is to go together.  I ony had to purchase railings and metal guns with bast bags, but the guns that came with the kit were nice but I was able to get the guns on sale with free shipping.

 

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