Sailor 's Uniforms

Hi ;

   Yeah this was true . But a lot was spent supposedly on things the captain  thought would help his crew survive . It was a rule to run out the guns and then run them back in again . Without Firing . Why . ? The Admiralty was stingy with Powder !

   There were captains who took some of the prize money and bought extra powder and cannon balls to train their crews .Those were the ships that were hard to defeat ! Especially if the officer in charge of supplies made sure they had citrus and decent food and fresh water .

  The point was brought up in the books about The officers and men of the H.M.S. Surprise . Although fiction , Mr Obrian dug into history to make the stories believable .This was a truism though ! As well as the corruption of the Victuallers ( Food Suppliers ) where the British , Spanish and other European Navies were concerned   T.B.

Okay " G " 

 I forgot Him . You are absolutely right , I stand Chastened ! T.B.

Definately, I am also one of the bald & beautiful, least in my mind :)  It was mentioned about the cost of a complete kit/uniform. From pirate movies we all get the idea of booty, treasure etc...  I did not know that during those times that a ship captured during wartime and its booty would be shared among the crew. A good captain and crew could amass a rather decent extra income.  This for sure eased the Officers expenses on Uniforms. I read that 1 complete Officers Uniform could take a whole months wages plus. So like mentioned you had to come from some kind of money to be an Officer in the first place. Sure glad that also had changed when I joined the Navy.   

Excuse me!

The great Yul Brynner.

Hmmmm;

 probably the best thing to happen . I have often wondered how men could be so vain today . Hairpieces ? Vin Diesel and Ving Rhames and Bruce Willis sure helped men realize bald could be Macho ! .

 At my age I don't worry about the Macho part , but Good Genes have given me a light full headed short blanket of pearl grey , that never seems to grow beyond believeable proportions.

 Still have to go to a barber though . We have an old fashioned one at the Barber Shop Museum in town .She even does Shaves ! 

This subject got me reading and Tank mentioning the wigs (Perukes) . I found that got started due to a couple of Kings vanity in balding along with long hair being the rage and with venereal disease running rapid. Which caused patchy bald spots, since there was no treatment yet and going bald or being patch would result in humiliation and loss of public postion and embarressment. The term "Bigwig" was used to refer to the very high dollar poufy wigs that the snobs wore. These wigs also helped control lice infestations, since you normally shaved your head to wear them. This fad died away after about 200 yrs when a heavy tax was levied on the white powder used.

Oh Yeah !

   And don't forget the Powdered Wigs for the officers too . At least the Poor crew didn't have to put up with that phony crap ! Although they were put out a lot , keeping a fresh uniform for assembly and on deck formations . The Marines too .The British felt that on the Troops and Marines that red coats didn't show the blood as bad if one was hit .

 The same for red Gundecks on their ships .

GMorrison is correct that officers had shell out good money for their outfits. Judging by the appearance of 18th and early 19th century collection of officers, only a person from the wealthy English aristocracy could afford their attair. Frequently, officers had to provide their own food and drink, which was far better than the swill served to ordinary seamen. I could never understand the function of those silly looking hats. A stiff breeze could easily blow one over the side of a sailing ship.

Happy modeling    Crackers

On a broader level, since the original Continental military was a child of the British Royal military, uniforms were un reasonably ornate.

In the British military, up and through the rest of the 19th Century, the commanders were also financially responsible for the fit of their units.

In fact, as a growing economy that still prized entitled land fortunes, but also resisted taxation for outside gain, the military formations of the Continental armies and navy were in a spot where they had certain economic goals, but were broke.

I've always held that the War of Independence was a subset of the larger Napoleanic Wars. In fact it was probably the French Navy that in the bigger picture won our country it's independence.

So our navy really was built on a system of the British Royal Navy. As has been described above, and amply evident if one reads the stories from that period, foremost the Naval and Trafalgar Chronicles, the concept of uniforms is pretty clear.

LIVIT

the Naval Officers/crew wore blue and is it the Marines who were in red ?

Correct for Royal Navy, and for USN to about 1820, when our Marines went to a blue uniform (aproimately the same time as USN dropped turned-back lapels and facings for a piped frock coat.  Midshipmen wore a shell jacket with tails, and were said to be "frocked" when they recieved their commissions to Lieutenant, and purchased a frock coat.

Navla officer have long traditions of being expected to either come from wealth or to emulate it in supplying their gear.

Which continues to this day, USN has a uniform allowance of around $1400, which will only fill about a third of the required "seabag" list. 

I did not get one of those when I enlisted in Navy. Glad too ! :)   

I have noticed in the forementioned movies that the Naval Officers/crew wore blue and is it the Marines who were in red ?

I gave mine to my Son ;

Tanker - Builder

Now ;

 Here's one for you .1960 - Got my uniforms at GLNTC . They issued me what is called ( Was called  ) A Flat hat . Four White hats .

 What had everyone puzzled was the Flathat . Who even wore them anymore ? The White Hat was a no Brainer .

 

Me to. Issued in 1960 at great Lakes. It was required for seabag inspection, but could only be worn with the dress blues in Washington DC. Was never there, but lugged that darn thing along anyway. That hat spent it's life in my seabag, stored in a void below our berthing space.

EJ

The Royal Navy (the British one) didn't regulate even officers' uniform until about the late 1740s. Until then they dressed as they liked. The men were expected to buy their clothes from the ships' purser and modify them to fit, no uniform was specified as such but in the course of a long commision one would expect a certain uniformity of appearance to develop within the crew due to sheer lack of variety of supply!

As an aside I've seen the designs for the post-Napoleonic Danish Navy captains' and admirals' uniform. The officers had to purchase them with their own money and they cost substantially more than one years' wages. Apparently one was expected to be an independently wealthy gentleman to be a naval officer.

Now ;

 Here's one for you .1960 - Got my uniforms at GLNTC . They issued me what is called ( Was called  ) A Flat hat . Four White hats .

 What had everyone puzzled was the Flathat . Who even wore them anymore ? The White Hat was a no Brainer .

crackers

The sailor's apparel must be government issue, since they all look alike.

By the 1850s USN issued one set of "dress" uniforms and one set "undress" uniforms for sailors.  The cost of the uniforms was deducted from their pay until paid for.  Officers were required to supply their own uniforms to Regulation.

The sailing instructions do not require the wear of undress uniforms except for visits by high officials or during Port Calls.  For going ashore on Liberty or the like, dress uniforms were required.

The taking of a photograph was considered a pretty formal occasion in the 1860s, people got their spiffy attire out for such events.

By 1890 and the Steel Navy, enlisted seamen were issued 4 sets of uniforms (blue wool and white cotton) shoes, and "dungaree" working uniforms.  These were not deducted from pay, unless damaged.  Sailors could buy additional uniforms, and/or draw parts from ship's Slop Chests.  Some ships carried denim versions od undress uniforms for tasks like coaling.

Union sailors relaxing on the deck of the U.S.S. MONITOR while anchored on the James River, VA. Photo taken on July 9, 1862. In previous times, sailors had to provide their own clothing.  The sailor's apparel must be government issue, since they all look alike.

Library of Congress photo    Happy modeling   Crackers   

Wikipedia confirms what I saw in more recent pictures. Stoning the deck as late as the1980s for the Iowa Class battleships was performed standing and leaning forward with a short stick inserted in a depression in the stone.

For the amphibious ships there were and probably still are greased wire ropes running from winches to cargo booms and davits around six inches above the deck. Invariably you were going to walk into one of them. The mark left on your uniform was know as a "gator hashmark". In the 1960s working uniforms of the day were dungarees for the crew and washed khaki for officers and chiefs.

Lets not forget the good possibility of blood too. I am glad this subject was brought up I was looking at my crew members this morning wondering about proper colors. I had noticed watching the movie Master and Commander and the Horatio Hornblower series that the crew kit was as CapnMac stated. It does appear that the Officers uniforms were somewhat regulated in appearance.  Dale

Until the steam and steel navies started taking shape, there was not a lot of "uniform" to sailors' uniforms.  The working kit, from all descriptions was every sort of scruffy clothing, which mirrored merchant seamen practice.

It's good to recall that shoes were not an issue item of uniform until about 1825, and were considered a "dress" item.  Barefoot was considered far more sure on wet decks and rigging aloft.  Metal decks and coaling made shoes more of a necessity.

Sea-going uniforms still have to be able to cope with oil, paint, solvents, all sorts of things.  One changes into 'clean' clothes to go ashore, or pier/quay side.

Coal dust.