Except, you till probably only need a couple special weapons.

No need for a B-36 if you have W-76 or W-80 stockpiled in the magazines.  (For that matter, the W-45 for Bullpup would more than suffice.)

After a Japanese "sneak attak,"  even one thwarted and routed by way of a secret "super weapon," there would be little public sympathy for "holding back."  War Plan Orange would have sent the Pacific Fleet off to the PI to go save MacArthur's bacon, but there is no reason to presume FDR would have held back on Japan.  Especially witha low-risk, 400 mile range attack possible.

Manhattan District would ge a huge boost, from being able to work from "known" values rather tan having to experiement and guess.  Now, whether Klaus Fuchs, et al would be isolated, to keep the info out of Soviet hands, is a different question.

Perhaps the question ought to be "What would Saratoga, Lexington, or the other Enterprise look like after a year or so?"

Returner43

it probably wouldn't last to long in active combat j

See, that's a hard call to make.

The trained-to-1980 standard crews are till aboard.

A CVN and CGN versus the IJN fleet at Pearl would be a rout.  The escorts would not be hard targets of Harpoons carried by the carrier's S-3s.  Wasn't done that much, but you can load an A-6 with six Standard missiles in air-to-surface mode.  Each.

Harpoon is a 400-500 mile weapon, at least 100 miles more than the IJN CAP, so those missiles would come out of nowhere.  And would discriminate agains the largest capital ships first.  Standard is about 50 miles in A2G.  A-6 is not a fast aircraft, by jet standardsl, like around a 350kt cruise speed.  That's goinf to be work for an A6M to close upon.   And the A-6 is armored, designed to be beat up.  Send in A-7s (limited to two Standard or two Harpoon) and those are faster than A6m, and have a gun on board.

Now, CVA plus a Spru-can or two, less so.  Not as many Harpoon on hand; very few A2G Standards, o, you'd need to steam the SpruCans to within 40-50 miles of the IJN Fleet to engage with ship-killing Standards.  But, with more Mavericks and Bullpups as ship killers.  Great big fat magazines of them.

Also, the Japanese Order of Battle is fully known to the 1980 Navy.  As is their position.

So, that's very likely to be a crippling blow to IJN.

Which could then be followed up, in around three weeks, with a decapitation strike agains Tokyo itself. 

Which renders some of the pivotal battles of the Pacific somewhat moot.

Mind, the trouble with that premise is that Huband Kimmel is still CINCPAC, and there's no reason to remove him.

Tricky stuff, history.

Phil_H

This has been done in book form. Check out the initial "Axis of Time" trilogy by John Birmingham. 

A summary can be found here: https://www.sfsite.com/06a/ax249.htm 

 

CapnMac82 that is definitely another interesting what-if to have a guided missle cruiser in the 1940s. With such sophisticated weapons it probably wouldn't last to long in active combat just from the POV that it would use up it's anti-ship missles rather quickly in such a target rich environment as the Pacific Theater. 

You're right though. It's technology would be way too advanced to try to come up with a counterpart using 40s technology and the gap to large to overcome even with a fully working CGN or CVA to study. 

Phil_H

This has been done in book form. Check out the initial "Axis of Time" trilogy by John Birmingham. 

A summary can be found here: https://www.sfsite.com/06a/ax249.htm 

 

This would make a great movie Trilogy.

Jet fuel is not that much different than diesel fuel.  The techs might have been able to tune the fuel controls enough to fix the difference.  I believe the navy used kerosene for their jets, didn't they.  I would suspect the weapons she did carry could be a big influence, and the better radar that the ship and her planes carried would be invaluable.

Just had a thought.

What if it were not 1980 Enterprise that gets sucked in.

What if it were a 1980 Amercica class CVA instead?  Those at least would have power plants the folks in 1941 would understand.  Also, some of those were still feiliding he S-2 and A-1, which would have been readily understood by 1941 folks.

Would also mean a bit more of a fair fight for being 1 CVA verus 6 IJN carriers (and supporting fleet).

(Always thought it was a bit of sophistry that not one of the escort vessels follows E into the vortex--but that avoids havign a CGN Texas or CGN California in the conflict.)

This has been done in book form. Check out the initial "Axis of Time" trilogy by John Birmingham. 

A summary can be found here: https://www.sfsite.com/06a/ax249.htm 

I'm picturing what happens when they fly off a pair or three F-14 to the Grumman plant, and having an airframe and powerplant CPOs show up as well.

The "Wiat, what, we can build one of these?" thing would be a hurdle.  Along with having to get a test stand to demonstrate how the powerplant works (Ok, similar befuddled looks at PW and GE).

Getting swept wings into the design pipline would have ben complicated--the engineering knowledge base would have to catch up, and then the detailing to actually build those wings would need to catch up too.

Now, this is a much better exercise with 1980 Enterprise, than, say, 2017 Gerald Ford.  Electromagnetic catapaults; solidstate electronics, no catapault bridles; almost too big a technological hurdle.  (And another problem in that the McDonald Aircraft Company has not begun in 1941; and Douglas Aircraft, Inc. has not merged with them, either--yet, here's these "Hornet" aircraft with "glass" cokpits, and computer flight controls. . . )

Oh this thread is right up my alley. I like these "what if?" scenarios. I am no expert whatsoever but with a supercarrier showing up in the 1940s America it would definitely give them am amazing technological advantage, not just with a fully working supercarrier but the ideas that they could get to improve existing weapons, technology and tactics. Imagine how if would affect torpedo developement to be told right as the war started of all the defects with the Mark XIV torpedo, especially the magnetic exploder.

I do agree that it would not be something they would want to put in an active combat zone until they got all the knowledge they could out of it, but it would be interesting to see the merging of old and new technologies.

How about having Avengers equipped with anti-ship missles, early Sikorsky helicopters in Navy colors for air-sea resue operations or as sub hunters, B-25s used as AWACS. Radar controlled Gatling gun style guns on ships for close-in defense would not be too far off. 

Maybe also have some early jet fighters like the Panther, but more likely something like the F-86 since they would already know swept wings provided much better performance. I don't know if it would be possible to have something like the Cutlass onboard, similar to the F14 in design. Too bad it's performance was limited but underpowered engines.

This is gonna be a fun build.

Stickpusher had a great response to this in another thread on a similar subject.  Something about the radar seeking missles being ineffective and the relatively low rounds for the guns.  Also the heat signature from radial engines not being significant enough for the heat seekers.   Only the kinetic missles would be of use.  It was entertaining!

1941 was a time of serious techmological change.

1980 Enterprise still has bridal "horns" on her, and cat crews familiar with their use.  Gas turbine engines were not unknown, either--they just were too expensive versus the known (and sunk) costs for piston engines.

So, I can imagine Tigercats being fitted up to bridal launch.  I could also see a version of a P-80 being used, too; the tech was available, just was not time to retool for it.  However, the long pause that would have resulted from defeating the Japanese at Pearl would allow for a lot of time to develop things.

Along with a very much different execution of War Plan Orange to liberate the Phillipenes.

Now, the geopolitics will be complicated.  In 1941, the blindsided US was an ideal thing for Hitler to declare war upon.  A US with an out-of-the-blue super carrier and "Buck Rogers" tech who handily defeated 6 Japanese carriers, would be less so.  Particularly with the Soviet Union on the ropes as a distraction.  So, the US might not be at war in Europe.  That allows a lot of focus on the Japanese.

I can picture a CBG of E, and, oh, Astoria, Atlanta and 3 Fletchers.

Which poses a different question.  With the superior CAP Enterprise can offer, would there be a big push to beef up the 1941 AA fits on existing USN vessels?  (Although, I imagine at least some of the officers would be offloaded with their SWO manuals and history books to ahve all that fine-tooth-combed at the War College.)

GMorrison

It wouldn't be feasible to operate the ship at sea.

She's nuke powered, the only real problem would have been the E can make 35 knots for hours, and precious few 1941 USN vessels would be able to keep up.

However, the plant would drive E at 12 or 15 knots to keep Fleet pace is needed.

JP supplies would have been complicated--but not out of reach of 1941 petroleum engineers, as it's functionally a refined kerosene.  (The fuel for the helos might actually be harder to come by; along with spares.)

Welcome to the Forums!

Your idea is verrrrrrrrrrrryy interesting. Look forward to seeing how it works out.

Jim  

I wanted to know what the reaction was to the RF-8 fly-over.

It wouldn't be feasible to operate the ship at sea. Taking into account the crew onboard, there would be no one else in the world who had any idea how the thing worked.

Far and away the most valuable part of the whole thing would probably be the aviators.

But it would be very useful at Pearl as a shore facility.

I've seen several Nimitz kits updated to her sisters or a newer version of Nimitz but never one backdated to WW2. The idea is evolving in my head to include her new CSG of the ships in Pearl that would not have been sunk or even damaged that fateful day. Oklahoma and Arizona would still be active, none of the other battle wagons sunk and damaged would have been as fully updated as they were in the repair process. The possibilities are almost endless. 

I like your thought process and the fact your attempting to do something out of the norm ! 

If what your doing had occured, then there would not of been the right kind of fuel for the tomcats, weapon supply would of also been an issue for the aircraft and the ship.  There is multiple aircraft sets in 1/350 on ebay for the USS Hornet, which would work nicely for your build. There is even the Doolittle raid B-25's with appropriate markings available. A look at what kind of arnaments that like maybe what the Hornet had would of needed to be changed out on the Nimitz. I have seen 1/350 AM gun turrets too. 

I do hope your planning on doing a build thread, this is one I would for sure follow. Good luck with your build, I think its cool..... Dale