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1/144, XXI, U-2540 submarine with interior

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  • Member since
    January, 2018
1/144, XXI, U-2540 submarine with interior
Posted by PeterPan on Friday, May 11, 2018 6:31 PM

Recently bought this kit from a secondhand shop. On inspection, 90% of the parts are still in their template sheets. A small minor part is missing. The kit was a lucky find for several dollars.

This will be my first plastic model build. I am hoping to make a good build for the local maritime museum. I am using their donated Humbrol paints. Had to cross-reference the Revell to Humbrol. A few colours were missing and mixed a few to suit.

 

 

Peter

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Friday, May 11, 2018 6:55 PM

[sinister voice]Welcome to the dark side[/voice] Smile

You will probably fit in well here.

Unlike most other model genres, ship modeling has rather a bad habit of kitting the equivalent of a Spitfire, then putting in a new box and calling it a Hurricane.  Some of the kit makers have unabashedly also boxed that Spit as a Typhoon.

So, research is a common companion.  Which can be frustrating.  After-market stuff is a distinct mix of kit-specific, and generic; quite a lot is actually aimed at scratch builders.

One of our 'regulars,' Raiderhall, scratch builds entire carriers to get the vessels he wishes to model.  His posts are photo-strong, too.

Our buddy, Tanker-builder does a lot of stuff with card models.

It's really an amazing bunch of talented people.

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by PeterPan on Saturday, May 12, 2018 3:38 AM

CapnMac82

[sinister voice]Welcome to the dark side[/voice] Smile

You will probably fit in well here.

Unlike most other model genres, ship modeling has rather a bad habit of kitting the equivalent of a Spitfire, then putting in a new box and calling it a Hurricane.  Some of the kit makers have unabashedly also boxed that Spit as a Typhoon.

So, research is a common companion.  Which can be frustrating.  After-market stuff is a distinct mix of kit-specific, and generic; quite a lot is actually aimed at scratch builders.

One of our 'regulars,' Raiderhall, scratch builds entire carriers to get the vessels he wishes to model.  His posts are photo-strong, too.

Our buddy, Tanker-builder does a lot of stuff with card models.

It's really an amazing bunch of talented people.

 

Thank you CapnMac82 for warning and tips.
 
Have been researching the XX1. Downloaded many photos of both the exterior and interior views. The difficult part is finding a simple layout drawing which names the sections/compartments of the XX1 submarine. I was able to figure out most sections except for three smaller compartments under the control room. These are RB, R, and U from the drawing below.
 
 

Peter

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by PeterPan on Saturday, May 12, 2018 9:04 PM

Jumped straight to the conning tower. Now I wish I was not so impatient. I did not do anything wrong as per instructions, but made it more difficult for me to add/alter the interior. For instance, the side walls are bare and look out of place in its setting. Will try to improve on it in situ.

So far:

Discovered that exterior ladder steps are solid plates, but by painting the edges black they can appear to look like bars.

 

Have not finished painting the exterior. Needs touch-up work.

Peter

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Saturday, May 12, 2018 9:30 PM

Given the location, those are probably related to the hydraulics involved with raising & lowering the snorkle mast, and/or periscopes.

Also, I've a vague rememory (I'm surface, not a bubblehead Smile) that you want a place to dump any water the snorkle digests.  Might also be a holding tank for water to cool the exhaust side of the snorkle, too.

But, bet number one is that at least one is either a trim tank or similar balast tank.

 

The tower looks good.  The XX1s are rather plain, if not to the nearly-devoid-of-surface-features level of nuke boats.  Just close.

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by PeterPan on Saturday, May 12, 2018 9:44 PM

CapnMac82

Given the location, those are probably related to the hydraulics involved with raising & lowering the snorkle mast, and/or periscopes.

Also, I've a vague rememory (I'm surface, not a bubblehead Smile) that you want a place to dump any water the snorkle digests.  Might also be a holding tank for water to cool the exhaust side of the snorkle, too.

But, bet number one is that at least one is either a trim tank or similar balast tank.

The tower looks good.  The XX1s are rather plain, if not to the nearly-devoid-of-surface-features level of nuke boats.  Just close.

Thank you CapnMac82. Sounds logical from your descriptive explanations.

Peter

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, May 12, 2018 10:34 PM

I’ve built that model. It’s a lot of fun.

I had the usual bout of AMS and added the pressure hull and deck support beams.

Youll like it. The decals for all the gauges and controls are a great touch.

Its not a beginners model, far from it, but you model in other mediums so it’ll be fun.

I added a crew, nice little set from Shapeways. In fact they have several sets I think. One proper sailors in their hats and ribbons, one an end of cruise bunch of pirates. I went full inspection ready because I don’t model certain combatants  so I kind of bent the rule and made it a training boat.

The only difficulty I had was that the sail doesn’t fit well at all to the deck. The bottom is dead flat but the deck has a little whaleback to it. It never looked quite right.

I don’t know what those compartments are. They are inside the pressure hull. My 21 book was the victim of a water leak, but I’ve got other stuff. Because your diagram was drawn by the USN, the letters are English.

Humbly, your title of the type number should have an “eye”, not a “one”.

Have a blast!

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by PeterPan on Saturday, May 12, 2018 11:35 PM

GMorrison

...I had the usual bout of AMS and added the pressure hull and deck support beams....

I added a crew, nice little set from Shapeways. ...

The only difficulty I had was that the sail doesn’t fit well at all to the deck. The bottom is dead flat but the deck has a little whaleback to it. It never looked quite right.

I don’t know what those compartments are. They are inside the pressure hull. My 21 book was the victim of a water leak, but I’ve got other stuff. Because your diagram was drawn by the USN, the letters are English.

Humbly, your title of the type number should have an “eye”, not a “one”.

Have a blast!

Thank you GMorrison.

I have now corrected the title.

What does AMS mean?

What does 21 book mean?

I checked out Shpaeways miniture figurines 1:150 scale. The crew would cost me $57 dollars, which would be 11 times more expensive than the (2nd hand) kit. However I did order 100 figurines for $4. I think there small enough (1/2 inch) to get away with having civilians painted in u-boat crew colours.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/302630835167

Thanks for the tip about fitting the sail to the deck. Will tackle that when I get to that stage.

Have ordered a few things for this kit, so there will periods of delay with building it.

 

Peter

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, May 13, 2018 12:24 AM

AMS= advanced modeler syndrome. Whether the first part applies is debatable, but it generally refers to the habit of taking something relatively straight forward and making it impossibly difficult. I this case, looking at photos of these being built, there was a lot of good information regarding the shape of the pressure hull relative to the outer hull. I thought it might be nice to model the pressure hull as an inner layer of the cut away.

Because the decks and bulkheads are sized to fill the inside of the outer hull, they needed to be cut to be narrower on the cut away side so as to be set in. What was helpful was that the bulkheads have a very faint molded line on them on the cut away side indicating their true profile. That made it a little easier to cut away the extra plastic. Then there was the pressure hull itself, the reinforcing bands around it, etc. 

21 as in XXI or Type 21 U Boat. I did find a book, but it sheds no further light on those compartments. I'd assume one is a sump for run off from the periscopes.

 

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by PeterPan on Sunday, May 13, 2018 2:27 AM

Wow, that sure is a different point of view. Lots of work involved...good on you.

Learnt from what you told me. It has altered somewhat about how I may approach my own model. I will add to the model but try to keep it simple too (if that is possible, hahaha).

Thank you for showing those WIP photos. Very enlightening.

Peter

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by PeterPan on Tuesday, May 15, 2018 6:50 AM

Had a lot of trouble finding anything on the flakguns. From what I can gather is shown below.

The gunner is enclosed in a column or pillar. There is no window or slot in the turret for sighting the target, so the turret hatch has to be opened to sight the target. This model of the turret does not lend itself to making an open hatch without botching-up the turret. So I have decided to leave the hatch alone, However, there are gaps around the guns which would allow any light within the pillars to shime out. Most probably there is no light within the pillar, but to add a bit of drama I decided to add one.

I read somewhere that earlier night vision lights used a blue-green light (before the red light was introduced). So I opted to use a blue for something different. There is a problem with introducing a LED within the sail. It lights up everything, and light escapes through all cracks etc. Decided to eliminate this diffusion by directly attaching the LED to the plastic, and painting the glued LED black. This helped my to isolate where I wanted the light to shine. The below photos shows the light quite brightly. I will dim this down by introducing a resistor for each LED at the power source.

Peter

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Tuesday, May 15, 2018 8:55 AM

Dear Mr.Pan .

 Peter , She's supposed to be a fun build .Don't get carried away . Must I remind you that you have a lot on your plate anyway .I wear scissors out on Card models and stuff but , C'mon Relax a bit . LOL.LOL. T.B.

 

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by PeterPan on Tuesday, May 15, 2018 5:05 PM

Tanker - Builder

Dear Mr.Pan .

 Peter , She's supposed to be a fun build .Don't get carried away ...

You mean like this.

Ha ha ha.

Don't worry, I am more like this.

and still having fun.

Peter

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, May 15, 2018 5:18 PM

Very funny GIF! The one with the dog.

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by PeterPan on Thursday, May 17, 2018 12:13 AM

Peter

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by PeterPan on Thursday, May 17, 2018 5:08 AM

Torpedo racks.

Peter

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Thursday, May 17, 2018 1:41 PM

Yeah , the Dog !

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Thursday, May 17, 2018 1:42 PM

Very Nice Peter !

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by PeterPan on Friday, May 18, 2018 4:34 AM

Last night, and today, I spent time painting torpedoes. I noticed that some colours did not like the smooth plastic, for the paint spread out ultra-thin. Several coats needed to be applied. Next time I will lightly sand the plastic so more pigment gets trapped and held to the surface.

The torpedoes come in four sets of three (fused together). Nearly every modeller of this kit elected to follow the instructions to the letter. I noticed by doing so, the rear starboard wall and its instrumentation gets blocked by the upper rack of torpedoes (the bottom rack, of three, is not used). The racks can handle 16 torpedoes, the kit has 12. Decided to cut one torpedo from the set of three, which leaves two torpedoes for the bottom rack. As a result, I am using the bottom and centre racks, leaving the top one free. This empty space now provides a clearer view of the starboard wall. The two spare torpedoes will be used in a simulation of being fired and just leaving the torpedo tubes.

Got the following idea from GMorrison (thanks). Used a single insulated wire to imitate a shaft and lever for each torpedo tube. This will indicate the mechanical firing lever. Actually, the wire can be turned by the lever. This could actually be used as a contact switch for triggering sound effects of a torpedo being fired. I won't be using that idea on this model, for it will be sealed in a display box.

Peter

  • Member since
    July, 2013
Posted by steve5 on Friday, May 18, 2018 5:24 AM

you are doing such a great job on this my friend , can't wait for the next installment .

 

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by PeterPan on Saturday, May 19, 2018 2:51 AM

steve5

you are doing such a great job on this my friend , can't wait for the next installment .

 

Thank you steve5.

Peter

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by PeterPan on Saturday, May 19, 2018 2:54 AM

Decided to give the torpedoes a coat of gloss. I think they look a lot better. 
Besides, I am sure they used to give the torpedoes a coat of oil/grease for easier release from the torpedo tubes.

Worked on painting the torpedo compartment wall. Surprisingly the kit instructions show not decals for this wall. Perhaps they realized that the torpedoes would obscure the wall. But this model has the wall showing. So now I have to paint what I can, and made a rough plan of colours to use on the plastic protrusions. 

Thought of a way to make the larger dials more realistic. The idea is to paint the dial surface a matt white so pencil marks would be easier to apply. Then paint the white dial with a few coats of clear gloss to imitate glass. I think it worked out well.

Really enjoyed painting these small bits. My confidence in doing so increased as I progressed. My hand stayed more relaxed and steadier. In that relaxed state I became more aware of what was needed to be done. I feel that my skills will improve as I proceed along on this build.

Peter

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Saturday, May 19, 2018 11:06 AM

PeterPan
I am sure they used to give the torpedoes a coat of oil/grease

The Germans were one of the few nations to specify a paint doating for their torpedoes.  Many were in bare metal.  German torpedoes showed a lot of bare metal, too.  As little as the warhead casing, and the tail cone & fixed fins were painted. 

The most extreme "bare metal" use was the US.  Until late 1942, all US torpedoes were made in the US Navy Torpedo Shop.  Who were not fast, nor innovative, nor musch interested in changing their ways (hence the Great Torpedo Controversy in the Pacific).  Lots of bronze, phosphor-bronze, and monel in US torpedoes.

You can lightly oil stowed torpedoes, but only enough for corrosion prevention.  This, because you have to be able to bend tackle on to put them in the hoist racks (put a tonne or two of torpedo over men's heads and you do not want the chains to slip).

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, May 19, 2018 11:42 AM

Really nice work!

There is at least one youtube/ pinterest page of the Wilhelm Bauer museum boat in Bremen.

Whether it represents WW2 fit is probably hard to know, but I found this extremely helpful for stuff, in particular all the natural wood paneling in the crew compartments.

This kit has a pretty long history. It's been released in all kinds of combinations- the Type 21, the Bauer (he was the Bavarian equivalent of John Holland), interior/ no interior.

I think the French kept one operational after the war and it was on station during the Suez Crisis.

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by PeterPan on Saturday, May 19, 2018 5:12 PM

CapnMac82
...The Germans were one of the few nations to specify a paint doating for their torpedoes.  Many were in bare metal.  German torpedoes showed a lot of bare metal, too.  As little as the warhead casing, and the tail cone & fixed fins were painted. 

The most extreme "bare metal" use was the US.  Until late 1942, all US torpedoes were made in the US Navy Torpedo Shop.  Who were not fast, nor innovative, nor musch interested in changing their ways (hence the Great Torpedo Controversy in the Pacific).  Lots of bronze, phosphor-bronze, and monel in US torpedoes.

You can lightly oil stowed torpedoes, but only enough for corrosion prevention.  This, because you have to be able to bend tackle on to put them in the hoist racks (put a tonne or two of torpedo over men's heads and you do not want the chains to slip).

Thank you CapnMac82 for sharing that information. Yes, those torpedoes are quite huge and heavy. Our local maritime museum has one on display (Mk 8). I would not want that to slip and land on me.

Peter

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by PeterPan on Saturday, May 19, 2018 5:17 PM

GMorrison

Really nice work!

There is at least one youtube/ pinterest page of the Wilhelm Bauer museum boat in Bremen.

Whether it represents WW2 fit is probably hard to know, but I found this extremely helpful for stuff, in particular all the natural wood paneling in the crew compartments.

This kit has a pretty long history. It's been released in all kinds of combinations- the Type 21, the Bauer (he was the Bavarian equivalent of John Holland), interior/ no interior.

I think the French kept one operational after the war and it was on station during the Suez Crisis.

Thank you for compliment.

Yes, I have downloaded many photos from the U 2540 as shown of the museum. It's a bit of a maze to figure out which photo belongs where. Will check out what YouTube has to offer on it.

Peter

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Philadelphia Pa
Posted by Nino on Saturday, May 19, 2018 5:30 PM

PeterPan

 

 

Have been researching the XX1. Downloaded many photos of both the exterior and interior views. The difficult part is finding a simple layout drawing which names the sections/compartments of the XX1 submarine. I was able to figure out most sections except for three smaller compartments under the control room. These are RB, R, and U from the drawing below.
 
 
 

 
 Hi PeterPan!
        I'm a bit late to this Topic so I hope I am not repeating anything already covered. Your drawing has a few areas unnamed. If my translation is right, ( High school German-50 years ago), the "RB" and "R"  are Regulator (or Compensating) tanks # 1 and 2.  The "U" is the Negative or Buoyancy tank. 
 
Here is a more detailed Pic.
(Click to enlarge)
 
I will watch with careful attention as I have quite a few "U-Boots"  in my stash, including an VIIb with Interior.
 
Thanks.
 
       Nino.
 
edit: VIIb
  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by PeterPan on Saturday, May 19, 2018 6:32 PM

Nino
...I will watch with careful attention as I have quite a few "U-Boots"  in my stash, including an XXI with Interior.
Thanks.
       Nino.
 

Thank you Nino for sharing that information about the compartments, and the huge scale plan drawings _ that makes it so much clearer and easier to decipher the German descriptors.

Peter

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by PeterPan on Sunday, May 20, 2018 4:28 AM

From Nino's larger plans of the XXI, I discovered that something is stored under the torpedo room floor.

The kit's cutaway section shows a partial view. Naturally the cutaway could be enlarged.

Well that just invited me to add some spares to the model.

Made a spare torpedo from the kit template frame.

Quickly figured out what parts of the wall is visible after the torpedoes and tubes are installed. 

Used single strand wire to add extra electrical conduit within these visible areas.

The spare torpedo is installed under the floor.

Bottom photo show the extra conduit seen under the torpedoes.

 

Peter

  • Member since
    January, 2018
Posted by PeterPan on Tuesday, May 22, 2018 7:41 AM

How they accessed the spares:

Since I am getting better using the paint brush I have decided against using any decals.

Finished the torpedo room.

 

Peter

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