The Square-Sail Schooner "Elise "

Is this a topsail schooner- one square topsail or raffee on foremast?

Is this the same ELISE that beat the schooner BLUENOSE at the International Fisherman's Race at Gloucester, Massachusetts, in 1921 ? This schooner had the reputation of being a fast sailor.

Happy modeling     Crackers   

Oops, sorry about that.

Happy modeling   Crackers

Hi ;

 I have this .The model was built by Joel Ewen in 1858 ! It's carved inside the bottom !

 Oh Boy ! It looks like the picture , But , it looks like it was re-rigged as a square rigged Baby Clipper ! Who knows ?

Now that photo I posted was random, just a three masted topsail schooner I liked.

Yeah , But  " G ";

 Your good taste shows as usual . She's gorgeous !

Heard on the news last night that some of the "Tall Ships" are in Penns Landing for the holiday and will be here for the rest of next week. No names given but some of them will be taking people for day cruises. Going to try to get down there and maybe get aboard 1 or 2. Have a friend that is a permanent crew member on the "Gazella". Maybe ?????????

Jim  

Take pictures!

TB,

You said it was a small schooner right? You didn't mean a small model of a schooner, am I correct here?

This reconstruction of an 1850's schooner is probably too large a ship to represent the type of ship the model of which you're repairing. Nonetheless, she's a handsome one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenandoah_(schooner)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schooner#/media/File:17-11-19_SHENANDOAH_Square_Sail_Schooner_05-07-20.jpg

fox

Heard on the news last night that some of the "Tall Ships" are in Penns Landing for the holiday and will be here for the rest of next week. No names given but some of them will be taking people for day cruises. Going to try to get down there and maybe get aboard 1 or 2. Have a friend that is a permanent crew member on the "Gazella". Maybe ?????????

Jim  

 

Jim,

  Gazela is there but no one going aboard, at least not yesterday, but then again, you know the crew. Ship needs some work and not enough voluteers to get her ready I believe.

Sagres is there as well as a replica of a 17th century Dutch-built Pinnace the Kalmar Nyckel from Sweden.  America 2.0 was taking folks out for a "ride".

I was hoping the USCGC Eagle would be there but no luck.

America 2.0 and New Jersey:

It's 7 bucks, 5 if senior, to get in.  There is some parking at 20 dollars. It's $16 if you want to tour a ship.  The Oliver Hazard Perry is free to walk on.  Don't forget the USS Olympia, and USS Becuna are there .   More importantly, the Seaport Museum (normally $17), is free.

 They have the Thoma Birch United States vs Macedonian painting. Here's a stern view of the USF US:

Hit me with a PM if any of you folks are heading down.  Maybe I can catch up with you.

    Jim

 Here's the Gazela.   Not your schooner but she's 3 masted;  with a

sq rigged foremast and fore/aft rigged Main and Mizzen. 

This thread has me enthused to get my Lucia Simpson down off my WIP shelf and do some more work on it.  Hull is not yet painted- I carved a little too deep and got a hollow in the bow, and putting paste wood filler there to bring it back out to lines.  Deck is done but need to do deckhouse and masts.  I have a number of questions on how the sails are bent to the mast and yards on a schooner like this.  Mine will have three fore and aft mainsails and a raffee.  Decided to do it in port with sails gathered- the best picture I have of her is this way, but does not show gaskets and other small lines on the sails.  It is a great lakes schooner so does not have the sleek curves of tanker-builder's ship.  It is a barge hull form- very full lines.

Mike ;

 It is a small model of a small schooner type ship . Canted masts and all . Just one thing , She has a complete square sail rig . No Name , by the way .Client's daughter chose " Elise ."

 She has the typical schooner deck cabins etc . She has four , Yes four Jib sails as well . She has booms and gaffs in between the Fore and Main and between the Main and Mizzen . All bare poles . 

 Now the builder might've been doing a conjectural model . Who Knows ? The Hull curves and Bulwarks are right for a  Clipper .BUT , The Bow and Stern deck hardware are definitely Bluenose Style

So all three masts have a set of spars for mains and topsails?

Plus the two forward masts, but not the rear one, have gaff rigged sails as well?

Thats pretty unusual.

Challenge being that a gaff rigged mast cant really have backstays, and a square rigged mast would go over forward without them.

Tanker-Builder, how come there is no photos of this project of yours?

The Great Lakes were a large source of information on top sail schooners from the early 19th to the later quarter, of that century, when steam gradually overtook sailing vessels. The Smithsonian Watercraft collection of American sailing ships might have plans of this kind of working vessels of that rea.

Happy modeling      Crackers   

Peter ;

 I still haven't mastered this skill . And I have misplaced my photos I had started on Flickr for the Train Museum . So I gave up .

Crackers ;

 Is that triangular sail thing what Don called a Raffee ?

crackers

The Great Lakes were a large source of information on top sail schooners from the early 19th to the later quarter, of that century, when steam gradually overtook sailing vessels. The Smithsonian Watercraft collection of American sailing ships might have plans of this kind of working vessels of that rea.

Happy modeling      Crackers   

 

Wow! Other than minor details, that is the spitting image of the Lakes schooner I am working on.  Boy, this thread is making me want to hurry the project I am working on to get the Lucia S.  down off the shelf.  Bad idea- present project (an aircraft engine) is coming along too nice to spoil.  But at the beginning of this year one of my resolutions was to finish the Lucia Simpson.

Interesting rigs on those lakes schooners.  That raffee sail is a triangle on some of the ships, like above, a trapezoid on others.

For those interested in American sailing ships plans, one of the best sources is the Smithsonial Watercraft collection of plans, that are available for $20.00, such as this three masted schooner.

Write to: Smithsonial Institution ship plans, P. O. Box 37012, NMAH 5004, Washington, DC, 20013-7012

In addition, from the late maritime author, Howard I. Chapelle, there are plans from all of his books that deal with both military and commercial sailing craft. Really good source for the serious scratch builder.
Happy modeling    Crackers    

Don ;

 Thank you for that input . I have seen those before and wondered what the &*$$ kind of rig is that ? Never could get close enough to ask . T.B.

Tanker - Builder

Don ;

 Thank you for that input . I have seen those before and wondered what the &*$$ kind of rig is that ? Never could get close enough to ask . T.B.

 

There is a great website on Great Lakes ships.  It is called boatnerd.com or boatnerds.com- keep forgetting whether I need the s or not.  I should put it in my bookmarks list.  They have a good gallery, but most of photos are steamers or motorships.  There are lots of links, there, and some will get you to schooners.  Also links to shipmodeling sites, including a Great Lakes ship modeling site.

Don ;

 My biggest interest in Lakes Vessels rests in the later Steam and Diesel years .Didn't see many sail types in good old Buffalo . Freighters ( a lot wintered there ) and The Steamer Canadiana are the most Memorable for me .

   I have seen actual Whalebacks and others and got to rest a little hand on the Eddie Fitz's side . The ice in winter at the falls ( Niagara ) and the little " Maid of the Mist " tour boats in the Niagara Gorge in  summer . 

" G " 

  I did discover when de-rigging her that she had the proper stays for Both Rigs .That's why I think it was a conjectural rig done by an employee of some yard in Massachusetts .

  She still was well done though . I did find evidence covered up in paint , of a Fore and Aft true schooner rig !

Since Tanker-Builder mentioned Whalebacks on the Great Lakes, this type of ship would be an ideal build for the modeler who likes the unusual. Invented by the Scottish born immigrant, Alexander McDougall, the first whaleback appeared in 1888, and continued to ply the lakes for the next 80 years. The last surviving whileback is the METEOR, now a museum ship at Superior, Wisconsin. I wonder if a kit model was ever presented to the public.

Happy modeling    Crackers   

Tanker - Builder

Don ;

 My biggest interest in Lakes Vessels rests in the later Steam and Diesel years .Didn't see many sail types in good old Buffalo . Freighters ( a lot wintered there ) and The Steamer Canadiana are the most Memorable for me .

   I have seen actual Whalebacks and others and got to rest a little hand on the Eddie Fitz's side . The ice in winter at the falls ( Niagara ) and the little " Maid of the Mist " tour boats in the Niagara Gorge in  summer . 

 

There is a whaleback preserved and set on dry land in Superior, Wisconsin (across the bay from Duluth.  It is a great tour through that ship.  Across the bay in Duluth is another laker, a conventional one that was the flagship of one of the Fleets.  It is a great visit too.  Duluth/Superior, called the Twin Ports, is a great place even today to watch the giant 1000' lakers pass in and out of the bay.